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Posts posted by Will

  1. I don't want to insult anyone here, or offend anyone, I just want to point out a couple things.

    First: inviting people in your home for tea and cookies when they are out preaching the devils work is, as shown above, against the bible. These are not "unsaved" people looking for truth, these are preachers of a strange doctrine, with a new book and a new Jesus. You want to engage them, as I said in the OP, take it outside.

    Second: Where is the glee found in "making them flee" or "scaring them off"!?!? Our fight is with the devil, and his errors, not these trapped people. How about some tips on getting these people saved instead of running them off to the next house where they might be listened too? Are you running them over to your neighbors who you've lived next too for years yet don't even know you're a Christian?

    Learning what they believe is only useful for those encounters where you must tear down their doctrine, to get them saved. If they are taught how to counter this, it is our duty to counter it even farther.

    I'm sorry if this upsets anyone, but JWs need to be saved not scared off or fed crumpets.

    1. They are unsaved. JW's don't even pretend to be Christian. The concept of not inviting false teachers into one's home has a direct correlation to false teachers who claim to be Christians. Not merely with false teachers bringing a new religion.

    2. I agree, we shouldn't be gleefully chasing them off. We should be witnessing to them with gentleness and respect. The Gospel is offensive enough as it is, we shouldn't make it any more offensive.

  2. The Bible teaches you are not to invite false teachers into your house. Those JWs that come to your door are specifically coming there to teach their false doctrines; therefore they are not to be invited in - according to God's Word:

    2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    You have taken and applied only half of what the passage says - the other half says: receive him not into your house. If we want God's blessing on us and our witnessing, we need to heed all of His Word.

    Do you allow unsaved people in your house?
  3. I missed my chance today :sad

    A couple JW women came to the door but I was upstairs and my wife answered the door. My wife is generally too quiet and willing to listen when strangers come to the door. Myself, if they are representing someone/something, I find out soon who or what it is if they don't tell me straight out.

    Anyway, after I came downstairs and my wife came into the room she told me it was some woman talking about the final days or something. I asked her if they were JW but she said she didn't think so. She said they left some literature and I asked how many there were and she said two older women, right then I said, "Yep, they were JW." When my wife brought the literature in I turned both over and showed her on the back where they said "Watchtower".

    Oh well, maybe next time...

    They never come around in my neighborhood. :sad I'm disappointed.

  4. Not the JW's in my area...they will welcome your challenge. And I guarantee you that they know their bible (including the KJV), even more than most Christians that I know (kinda sad :sad ). If you don't know how to "rightly divide the word," then you will find yourself defeated by their doctrine before you know it. Btw, they have a plethora of counter-arguments to the passages listed in the OP, but it won't work on me because I have engaged in too many debates with JW's. :smile


    It's a shame that you're right about this Madeline. Which is the reason that I am heavily devoted to helping provide good, accurate, apologetics arguments for people via the internet. Whether it involves providing links to websites, recommending good books, or writing articles. I want Christians to be able to defend the faith against attacks from the false religions. Christians need to be educated in the Bible first and foremost, and in apologetics as well.

    I'm also working on a toolbar that will help with that. :Green
  5. I have no problem inviting unsaved people into my house and showing them a little hospitality. I will not however wish them "Godspeed" or such. But I will give them the truth. I study cults and false religions regularly.

    Unfortunately, they never come around. :sad

  6. But foot washing had a practical application back then...dusty dirty feet. Just like today' date=' we greet one another with a handshake instead of a holy kiss. Maybe today we pick someone up and give them a ride to church instead of wash their freshly showered feet?[/quote']

    You mean the "right hand of fellowship" as found in Galatians? :Green You find the Holy Kiss in Scripture, and the "right hand of fellowship" which shaking one another's right hand as a salutation and for signifying approval of someone.
  7. Jhn 13:4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
    Jhn 13:5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel wherewith he was girded.
    Jhn 13:7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
    Jhn 13:14 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
    Jhn 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
    Jhn 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
    Jhn 13:17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

    Being spiritually reared in the independent fundamental Baptist movement, I, too, was taught that Jesus was merely giving an example that we should serve one another with humility as he did, and this text does imply that. However, it also says we are blessed if we do it (footwashing) also.

    I beg your pardon in advance this is lengthy, but bear with me. I visited a church several years ago that practiced footwashing (the holy kiss too, we'll slay that giant later,) and I was able to observe. The men separated from the women and went into a fellowship hall. The ladies gathered in the back of the auditorium and began singing hymns, and to be quite honest, it sounded like the angels singing.

    The men sat in a large circle and took off their shoes and socks, humbling? yes, but this is a teaching about humility and brotherly love. I watched as men began going to a brother, asking if he could wash his feet, and going to one of two #2 metal basins. The first brother knelt and began washing the others feet and blessing him and praying for him and his family. When he was done they swapped places and the other brother washing the first's as well. Upon drying his feet with towel that was beside the basin, the brothers arose, embraced, and occasionally gave a kiss on the side of their manly bearded cheek. I want to insert, these were manly men, they were construction workers, farmers, and tradesmen of various types. I knew them personally and they were godly men who lead their homes and were exemplary in the church as well as the community.

    One brother asked if he could wash another brothers feet and they headed for the basin. The one kneeling looked up with tears in his eyes and confessed that he was wrong in a disagreement they had over some issue and humbly asked for forgiveness. Needless to say they were instantly reconciled in such an atmosphere of brotherly love and humility.

    I saw that it did a world of good among the men of the church as well as to the fellowship at large.

    We, are a bit too RED, WHITE, AND BLUE, John Wayne, guns a blazin', baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, (and, yes, Chevrolet,) American. Unfortunately, it has cause us to read the Bible through red, white, and blue, colored glasses and we oft say, "That is not for our culture," or something like that. This can be an excuse for not obeying the word of God.

    This issue is not, "Do I like this?" but, "Am I going to obey clear commands in scripture?" If we are not going to obey here, where else are we going to culturally justify disobedience to scripture? And, if we lead by this example should we be let down when our children and the next generation of Christians sink to greater depths of disobedience.

    Should we practice the "HOLY" kiss?

    Rom 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
    1Cr 16:20 All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
    2Cr 13:12 Greet one another with an holy kiss.
    1Th 5:26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.
    1Pe 5:14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace [be] with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

    O.k., if I have heard this once, I have heard it a dozen times, (this is the firey preacher lettin' it rip,) "If God said it once, that's good enough, BUT, if he says it more than once, you'd better pay attention!" You've heard that, haven't you? Well, FIVE times God (he inspired scripture for all peoples throughout all ages,) said, greet the brethren with an holy kiss. You decided who you are going to obey.

    Again, I saw this pracitced, brothers with brothers, sisters with sisters, ONLY AND ALWAYS, (just to be clear.) Always on the cheek, and never carried away to some imagined perversion. It is called a holy kiss because it is. I know the quotes from the early church fathers are not scripture, but they are a testimony to the practice regular in the church and Christian community at large in the early centuries.

    The problem with these things are they are not "Baptist," but they are Bible, so we need to take off the red, white, and blue, 2007 issue glasses, and let God be true and all men liars. I know introduction of this in most (99.9%) churches would lead to all out war (God forbid if you introduced head covering.) But, I would encourage those of you who are students of the word AND disciples of Christ to prayerfully and carefully consider these things.

    Points to ponder,
    Bro. Ben

  8. When I was in the Mennonite Church we practiced footwashing alongside communion (well we washed feet first~men and women were separated for this~then did communion) and found it to be an enriching experience. They use scriptures for the ordinance, but it is not a required practice.

    Also they practiced the "Holy Kiss". Yeah, I sorta passed on that one myself opting instead for the "Holy Hug" :cool Seeing two old Mennonite farmers kiss each other on the lips was kinda odd for me the first time I saw it. The older generation would pair off with each other and we younger generation would pair off for this during the feetwashing. The old timers would kiss when they greeted each other on Sunday mornings.

    Now in the Old Order Mennonites I guess they're still a kissin'.

    Hey, Paul said greet each other with a holy kiss, so they take it literally.

    A lot of conservative Mennonites still practice the holy kiss, but not all do so on the lips, many do so on the cheek.

  9. im re opening this forum because i have something to say.

    while iwas away some things have happened that has made me change my mind.

    we believed 95% of what our church did.but because we didnt believe the other 5 % we were pretty much,pushed,or kicked out of our church(yes the one where PAstor Robinson is the pastor.)my dad was taken off the preaching list and fired,my mom and I were taken of both nursery and cleaning lists.people didnt want to speak to us...it was clear we were not wanted there.

    We havent gone to church since.i begged my mom to let me go at least on easter...but i couldnt.the one that i wanted to go to teaches the pastor is in charge of everything not God.

    my cousin Arik,(i spoke of him before) has been bashing my family ever since he went to PBI. he called my sisters husband(was fiance) a fool after Robert had approached him about harrassing my sister(my sister works for Dr Hovind and my cousin Arik hates him because he teaches 6 day creation)

    maybe the Lord is having all these things happen because if i went to PBI i could change for the worst? i may never know.

    I will NOT go to PBI,ill go to PCC for music than a medical college...and for bible training....my Bible will do all of that.i dont need man to teach me the word of God.after all,he is only man.

    The holy Spirit can guide me in my study.And i put all my trust on him for what i will learn. if satan tries to tell me something different.i know how to treat this.I always have long talks with my dad and he knows his Bible very well. he told me according to the BIble you should say to the spirit "do you confess that Jesus is God in the flesh?" and if it says yes it is of God and if no or it tries to get around it,than dont speak to it or listen.

    My dad has been offered the position of assistant pastor in Washington.so we will move there in June. after that i will go to college.

    Amie Jo

    *hugs* Sorry to hear about your church and family situation.

  10. How do you explain Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:20, and Philippians 2:12? These verses confuse me when speaking of eternal security.

    2 Peter 2:20 is speaking of false teachers who infiltrate the church pretending to be Christians but create heresies in order to lead the people astray.

    Philippians 2:12 has to do with A: Making sure we are saved, and B: living like we are saved.

    Hebrews 6:4-6 is speaking hypothetically.

  11. This helps very much. :) However, the verse John 17:9-12 confuses me. Here it is:

    John 17:9 KJV I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

    John 17:10 KJV And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

    John 17:11 KJV And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

    John 17:12 KJV While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

    It says that none of them is lost but the son of perdition. Who is the son of perdition? :puzzled:

    Judas is the Son of Perdition, who was not a true believer, but was the one who carried out the act of betraying Jesus.
  12. I used to drink quite heavily. I would never advise anybody to pick up the habit. Beer, I never had a taste for and could drink one or two at a party without ever getting drunk. But, I was a social drunk. Which means when I went out to a party, I got hammered. Wasted. And sure, it's fun for a little while. But God wasn't very happy about my doing so. You know, everybody thinks it's such a glorious thing to go out to a party, get buzzed, and have a good time. And they show that in the commercials and movies. What normally isn't shown in the movies however, is what happens later in the night. I've seen friends of mine bent over the toilet for hours throwing up because they got so drunk. I drank so far in excess one night that I wound up over some farmer's fence throwing up. I almost had alcohol poisoning that night, my friends were worried about me. And that was the only time my friends ever got worried about me because I'm one of those people that 'can handle their liquor.' Which means I don't throw up much. But when you get drunk, you get stupid. I've seen friends of mine spend the night in lockup for pulling a gun out outside of a bar. I've seen people do things they otherwise never would have done while being drunk. Thank God, He protected me from some of the stupidity I could have gotten into while being drunk. But not everybody will be protected. God may just remove His hand of protection from your life to let you suffer the full consequences of your sin. Remember that night I told you about where I got so drunk I was throwing up? I can't drink like I could before that night. Before that night, all I ever drank was whiskey and other hard liquor. But ever since that night, the very smell has made me want to vomit. I spent so much money getting drunk, that it took me a couple years to climb out of the pit of debt I put myself into.

    It's better to never start drinking, than to wind up doing something you'll regret for years to come because you got hammered one night to be 'cool.'

  13. Is it possible for anyone besides me to create such a highly complex and simultaneously disorganized question as I have repeatedly done through the course of the last several questions that I have posted in this incredibly long and yet incredibly interesting thread that is designed merely for the asking of questions(which as we all know is an entirely effective means of entering into debate with others)?

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