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Posts posted by Will

  1. I don't want to insult anyone here, or offend anyone, I just want to point out a couple things.

    First: inviting people in your home for tea and cookies when they are out preaching the devils work is, as shown above, against the bible. These are not "unsaved" people looking for truth, these are preachers of a strange doctrine, with a new book and a new Jesus. You want to engage them, as I said in the OP, take it outside.

    Second: Where is the glee found in "making them flee" or "scaring them off"!?!? Our fight is with the devil, and his errors, not these trapped people. How about some tips on getting these people saved instead of running them off to the next house where they might be listened too? Are you running them over to your neighbors who you've lived next too for years yet don't even know you're a Christian?

    Learning what they believe is only useful for those encounters where you must tear down their doctrine, to get them saved. If they are taught how to counter this, it is our duty to counter it even farther.

    I'm sorry if this upsets anyone, but JWs need to be saved not scared off or fed crumpets.

    1. They are unsaved. JW's don't even pretend to be Christian. The concept of not inviting false teachers into one's home has a direct correlation to false teachers who claim to be Christians. Not merely with false teachers bringing a new religion.

    2. I agree, we shouldn't be gleefully chasing them off. We should be witnessing to them with gentleness and respect. The Gospel is offensive enough as it is, we shouldn't make it any more offensive.

  2. The Bible teaches you are not to invite false teachers into your house. Those JWs that come to your door are specifically coming there to teach their false doctrines; therefore they are not to be invited in - according to God's Word:

    2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    You have taken and applied only half of what the passage says - the other half says: receive him not into your house. If we want God's blessing on us and our witnessing, we need to heed all of His Word.

    Do you allow unsaved people in your house?

  3. I missed my chance today :sad

    A couple JW women came to the door but I was upstairs and my wife answered the door. My wife is generally too quiet and willing to listen when strangers come to the door. Myself, if they are representing someone/something, I find out soon who or what it is if they don't tell me straight out.

    Anyway, after I came downstairs and my wife came into the room she told me it was some woman talking about the final days or something. I asked her if they were JW but she said she didn't think so. She said they left some literature and I asked how many there were and she said two older women, right then I said, "Yep, they were JW." When my wife brought the literature in I turned both over and showed her on the back where they said "Watchtower".

    Oh well, maybe next time...

    They never come around in my neighborhood. :sad I'm disappointed.

  4. Not the JW's in my area...they will welcome your challenge. And I guarantee you that they know their bible (including the KJV), even more than most Christians that I know (kinda sad :sad ). If you don't know how to "rightly divide the word," then you will find yourself defeated by their doctrine before you know it. Btw, they have a plethora of counter-arguments to the passages listed in the OP, but it won't work on me because I have engaged in too many debates with JW's. :smile


    It's a shame that you're right about this Madeline. Which is the reason that I am heavily devoted to helping provide good, accurate, apologetics arguments for people via the internet. Whether it involves providing links to websites, recommending good books, or writing articles. I want Christians to be able to defend the faith against attacks from the false religions. Christians need to be educated in the Bible first and foremost, and in apologetics as well.

    I'm also working on a toolbar that will help with that. :Green

  5. I have no problem inviting unsaved people into my house and showing them a little hospitality. I will not however wish them "Godspeed" or such. But I will give them the truth. I study cults and false religions regularly.

    Unfortunately, they never come around. :sad

  6. But foot washing had a practical application back then...dusty dirty feet. Just like today' date=' we greet one another with a handshake instead of a holy kiss. Maybe today we pick someone up and give them a ride to church instead of wash their freshly showered feet?[/quote']

    You mean the "right hand of fellowship" as found in Galatians? :Green You find the Holy Kiss in Scripture, and the "right hand of fellowship" which shaking one another's right hand as a salutation and for signifying approval of someone.

  7. Jhn 13:4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
    Jhn 13:5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel wherewith he was girded.
    Jhn 13:7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
    Jhn 13:14 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
    Jhn 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
    Jhn 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
    Jhn 13:17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

    Being spiritually reared in the independent fundamental Baptist movement, I, too, was taught that Jesus was merely giving an example that we should serve one another with humility as he did, and this text does imply that. However, it also says we are blessed if we do it (footwashing) also.

    I beg your pardon in advance this is lengthy, but bear with me. I visited a church several years ago that practiced footwashing (the holy kiss too, we'll slay that giant later,) and I was able to observe. The men separated from the women and went into a fellowship hall. The ladies gathered in the back of the auditorium and began singing hymns, and to be quite honest, it sounded like the angels singing.

    The men sat in a large circle and took off their shoes and socks, humbling? yes, but this is a teaching about humility and brotherly love. I watched as men began going to a brother, asking if he could wash his feet, and going to one of two #2 metal basins. The first brother knelt and began washing the others feet and blessing him and praying for him and his family. When he was done they swapped places and the other brother washing the first's as well. Upon drying his feet with towel that was beside the basin, the brothers arose, embraced, and occasionally gave a kiss on the side of their manly bearded cheek. I want to insert, these were manly men, they were construction workers, farmers, and tradesmen of various types. I knew them personally and they were godly men who lead their homes and were exemplary in the church as well as the community.

    One brother asked if he could wash another brothers feet and they headed for the basin. The one kneeling looked up with tears in his eyes and confessed that he was wrong in a disagreement they had over some issue and humbly asked for forgiveness. Needless to say they were instantly reconciled in such an atmosphere of brotherly love and humility.

    I saw that it did a world of good among the men of the church as well as to the fellowship at large.

    We, are a bit too RED, WHITE, AND BLUE, John Wayne, guns a blazin', baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, (and, yes, Chevrolet,) American. Unfortunately, it has cause us to read the Bible through red, white, and blue, colored glasses and we oft say, "That is not for our culture," or something like that. This can be an excuse for not obeying the word of God.

    This issue is not, "Do I like this?" but, "Am I going to obey clear commands in scripture?" If we are not going to obey here, where else are we going to culturally justify disobedience to scripture? And, if we lead by this example should we be let down when our children and the next generation of Christians sink to greater depths of disobedience.

    Should we practice the "HOLY" kiss?

    Rom 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
    1Cr 16:20 All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
    2Cr 13:12 Greet one another with an holy kiss.
    1Th 5:26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.
    1Pe 5:14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace [be] with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

    O.k., if I have heard this once, I have heard it a dozen times, (this is the firey preacher lettin' it rip,) "If God said it once, that's good enough, BUT, if he says it more than once, you'd better pay attention!" You've heard that, haven't you? Well, FIVE times God (he inspired scripture for all peoples throughout all ages,) said, greet the brethren with an holy kiss. You decided who you are going to obey.

    Again, I saw this pracitced, brothers with brothers, sisters with sisters, ONLY AND ALWAYS, (just to be clear.) Always on the cheek, and never carried away to some imagined perversion. It is called a holy kiss because it is. I know the quotes from the early church fathers are not scripture, but they are a testimony to the practice regular in the church and Christian community at large in the early centuries.

    The problem with these things are they are not "Baptist," but they are Bible, so we need to take off the red, white, and blue, 2007 issue glasses, and let God be true and all men liars. I know introduction of this in most (99.9%) churches would lead to all out war (God forbid if you introduced head covering.) But, I would encourage those of you who are students of the word AND disciples of Christ to prayerfully and carefully consider these things.

    Points to ponder,
    Bro. Ben


  8. When I was in the Mennonite Church we practiced footwashing alongside communion (well we washed feet first~men and women were separated for this~then did communion) and found it to be an enriching experience. They use scriptures for the ordinance, but it is not a required practice.

    Also they practiced the "Holy Kiss". Yeah, I sorta passed on that one myself opting instead for the "Holy Hug" :cool Seeing two old Mennonite farmers kiss each other on the lips was kinda odd for me the first time I saw it. The older generation would pair off with each other and we younger generation would pair off for this during the feetwashing. The old timers would kiss when they greeted each other on Sunday mornings.

    Now in the Old Order Mennonites I guess they're still a kissin'.

    Hey, Paul said greet each other with a holy kiss, so they take it literally.

    A lot of conservative Mennonites still practice the holy kiss, but not all do so on the lips, many do so on the cheek.

  9. im re opening this forum because i have something to say.

    while iwas away some things have happened that has made me change my mind.

    we believed 95% of what our church did.but because we didnt believe the other 5 % we were pretty much,pushed,or kicked out of our church(yes the one where PAstor Robinson is the pastor.)my dad was taken off the preaching list and fired,my mom and I were taken of both nursery and cleaning lists.people didnt want to speak to us...it was clear we were not wanted there.

    We havent gone to church since.i begged my mom to let me go at least on easter...but i couldnt.the one that i wanted to go to teaches the pastor is in charge of everything not God.

    my cousin Arik,(i spoke of him before) has been bashing my family ever since he went to PBI. he called my sisters husband(was fiance) a fool after Robert had approached him about harrassing my sister(my sister works for Dr Hovind and my cousin Arik hates him because he teaches 6 day creation)

    maybe the Lord is having all these things happen because if i went to PBI i could change for the worst? i may never know.

    I will NOT go to PBI,ill go to PCC for music than a medical college...and for bible training....my Bible will do all of that.i dont need man to teach me the word of God.after all,he is only man.

    The holy Spirit can guide me in my study.And i put all my trust on him for what i will learn. if satan tries to tell me something different.i know how to treat this.I always have long talks with my dad and he knows his Bible very well. he told me according to the BIble you should say to the spirit "do you confess that Jesus is God in the flesh?" and if it says yes it is of God and if no or it tries to get around it,than dont speak to it or listen.

    My dad has been offered the position of assistant pastor in Washington.so we will move there in June. after that i will go to college.

    Amie Jo

    *hugs* Sorry to hear about your church and family situation.

  10. Is it possible for anyone besides me to create such a highly complex and simultaneously disorganized question as I have repeatedly done through the course of the last several questions that I have posted in this incredibly long and yet incredibly interesting thread that is designed merely for the asking of questions(which as we all know is an entirely effective means of entering into debate with others)?

  11. Is it possible that Kevin in his rush to be added to the Christmas list not only forgot to pose his request to be added as a question but forgot the entire purpose of this thread as well and since he forgot the entire purpose of the thread does this not disqualify him from further efforts to amuse, annoy, and otherwise harass members of OB by posting incredibly long run-on questions as I have done?

  12. [quote="IM4given"]
    [quote="Will"]Realizest thou that thy weakened grammatical structure is indicative of poor habits brought on by years of activities non-conducive to proper English usage in a habitat of non-learning that is irresponsible and irreperable past the age of thirty which naturally is indicative of a problem found only in the jungles of the Amazon among the people of the Tutu tribe which dwell in the middle of the rubber trees that grow only the finest rubber which is of course indicative of the fact that I have just created the absolutely longest run-on question that I've ever managed to do before in my life but I digress because I am drifting so to continue to the end which is indicative of the fact that I'm smarter than you?


    What part of my incredibly long, and yes, incredibly asinine posting of an entirely rhetorical and yet needed because of the nature of the posting done here in the spirit of all things Christmas during the latter part of the year of our Lord 2006 looking to 2007 as we move ahead on this discussion forum in the silences of the snow bound and possibly radioactive substances created by the beavers run on question did you not understand?

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