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Bakershalfdozen

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Posts posted by Bakershalfdozen

  1. Again, not being dogmatic here....but I wanted to explore this idea that this sin can be committed today, assuming that the sin is saying that a wonderful work of God was performed by the power of Satan.

    Jesus had just healed a man who had a tiny, shrunken, shriveled hand. He made a brand new hand for the guy. Then a demon-possessed man who was also blind and mute was brought to Jesus. Jesus completely healed the man, demon was gone and the man saw and talked.

    The people were all amazed and said, "Is not this the son of David?" That's another way of saying that the Messiah had come. The people knew it. But the Pharisees said that Jesus had performed these mighty miracles by the power of Satan. Jesus explained that a house divided cannot stand and anyone not with Him was against Him. Then Jesus said that because of this, the terrible blasphemy the Pharisees spoke against the Spirit of God (by saying it was Satan's doing) would not ever be forgiven.

    So.....I assume that most of us agree that those kinds of miracles have ceased? Does anyone know someone who by the Spirit of God has made a blind man completely sighted in recent times simply by speaking or touching?

    Also, heartstrings, have you or anyone you know seen God work mightily in a life and then have someone tell you that it was Satan who did the mighty work?

    Again, just exploring this idea. The statement Jesus made to the Pharisees is not repeated or even alluded to anywhere else in the N.T. That is why I lean towards the idea that it is time period specific.

  2. Seth, I think a hardened heart of unbelief can lead to the blasphemy or that the hardened heart is the outgrowth of the blasphemy but I do not believe they are one and the same.

    Jesus said that the unpardonable sin (whatever it is) could never, ever, ever, ever, no never be forgiven in this life. [emphasis mine] Once you commit it, you're done.

    However, unbelief and blasphemy CAN be forgiven in this life as is evidenced by Paul, a former Pharisee, BTW.

    Therefore I have to conclude that the one sin that cannot be ever forgiven is attributing the Holy Spirit's work to Satan. That is what the Pharisees said and did. That is the ultimate blasphemous offense to God. I will agree that a person who has committed this sin already has a hardened heart of unbelief or is in the process of willfully choosing to reject the Holy Spirit work but the hardened heart and the unpardonable sin do not automatically equal each other.

  3. Yes, the power of God is visible today, heartstrings. I said that I won't be dogmatic about the "it can't happen today" scenario.

    Notice in those verses you posted that Saul (Paul) was there along with all the others and was consenting (agreeing to and with the others) to Stephen's death but he didn't commit the unpardonable sin...

  4. Like I said in PM, I won't be dogmatic on "it can't happen today" but I just can't get "unbelief" out of that passage. There was something specific the Pharisees said that generated a specific response by Jesus, one that He never used in any other situation.

    The context just doesn't support "unbelief". It does support, however, saying that God is being controlled by Satan is unforgivable blasphemy.

    Any sin but this blasphemy one can be forgiven in this life. The lost person dies without repenting of his sins and receiving forgiveness. But what the Pharisees said put them beyond the possibility of salvation while they were still alive. Everyone agrees that no sin can be forgiven after death so "the world to come" has to refer to something else and someone else besides a person who is already in hell.

  5. We've all heard the stories of people telling God to leave them alone and then dying shortly thereafter. Sure, it happens. I just don't think that it is this specific unpardonable sin that Jesus told the Pharisees they were guilty of. John81 posted an example of someone blaspheming and then being saved later in life. Because of Jesus' reference to "the world to come", I believe this is a sin one commits after seeing the visible power of God and saying that He is being controlled by Satan. That is the whole crux right there - saying that God's power is really Satan's power, not resisting or disbelieving something.

  6. Cool, candlelight. :cool


    Just for my own edification, I looked up verses in the N.T. that talk about people's unbelief and not one of them generated a blasphemy accusation.

    Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

    Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

    Mark 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

    Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

    Said to the disciples - Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe



  7. 1. Not to the saved, but they can to the lost.



    2. Their willfull unbelief WAS their blasphemy. They KNEW he was of God and they said he had a devil anyway.



    3. True in a way. But his unbelief is what caused him to be unforgiven. IF he had repented and believed in Christ all his sins WOULD have been forgiven. It would be equally correct to say that he went to hell for all his unforgiven sins or to say that he went to hell only for his unbelief. Both statements are true in a way since his sins are unforgiven only because of a unrepentant, unbelieving heart.



    4. I don't follow your logic. That wouldn't seem to make any sense from either my point of view or your point of view. :loco I don't think either of us are of the opinion that any sins can be forgiven after death. Die unforgiven and lost and you stay that way.



    5. It isn't unbelief in general, it is a rejection of the Holy Spirit knowing full well what you are doing to the point that God gives that person up and allows their heart to be hardened to the point they simply cannot believe and be saved any more: only God knows when that point is reached. Christ said in another place that if they were blind they would have no sin, but because they said they saw, their sin remained. If you look at the various places where the the scribes and pharisees are talking about Jesus among themselves, it is clear that they knew he was of God, yet they rejected him anyway because they didn't like what that meant. They were beyond help. That is why Christ said in another place: "Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."



    I hate big long quotes :frog but I don't know another way to answer your answers.

    We have to stick to the context of these particular passages.

    1. The verses about the unpardonable sin do not apply to anyone who cannot visibly see Jesus.

    2. The blasphemy was calling God's power Satan's power.

    3. I disagree because Jesus said that this particular sin He is addressing can't even be forgiven in THIS life.

    4. Why did Jesus mention "the world to come" in the first place if all He meant is that willful unbelief = blasphemy? He knows better than anybody that after death, one cannot have sins forgiven. He was speaking of the Kingdom age when He will be visible on earth again and showing His eternal power and Godhood. Some will reject Him and say that He is doing these wonderful things by Satan's power. Those people will not be forgiven for that sin.

    5. I agree that a person can willfully reject Jesus to the point of no longer being drawn to the Lord but in the context of these passages, the blasphemy is saying that Jesus was being controlled by Satan.
  8. The unpardonable sins Scriptures don't apply to us today.

    Jesus didn't say, "Pharisees, you can't be forgiven of blasphemy and everyone else, you can't be forgiven of unbelief".

    When an unbeliever dies, ALL of his sins are unforgiven - not just his unbelief. He died in his sin[b]s[/b] and that includes all of them.

    If Jesus was referring only to unbelief, why did He say, "And in the world to come"? If unbelief can't be forgiven in the world to come because it is the unpardonable sin, then what pardonable sins CAN be forgiven in the world to come??

    And if unbelief is unpardonable, then anyone who doesn't believe right now has no chance whatsoever of being saved because that sin is unpardonable. That means it can never be forgiven. Ever. Not in this life and not in the life to come. And that doesn't line up with this age of grace.

  9. Look, when an unbeliever dies, his unbelief is unforgiven. But so is his lying, his cheating, his adultery, his pride - all UNforgiven. All of his sins are unforgiven.

    When someone turns to the Lord after many years of rejecting Him, his UNBELIEF IS FORGIVEN at that point.



    Jesus is talking about the Scribes and Pharisees seeing God in the flesh at work and saying that the power behind it is Satan. When He says, "and in the world to come", He is referring to the Kingdom period where there will eventually be unsaved people. Everyone will see Him in the flesh and anyone who attributes His power and working to Satan will never be forgiven.

  10. [quote="DeafBaptist"]What do I do, just PM one of the mods?[/quote]


    Um, haha. :Green OB does not officially recommend any one KJV Bible. We have had a thread or two where people have asked which one everybody uses and some of the mods responded with their preferences but we do not publicly endorse one over another.

    If I can find that thread, I'll send you a link so you can see what other people had to say about their choice of study Bibles.

  11. Anything by Elisabeth Elliot. That woman is a veritable fountain of wisdom and God has brought her through many trials and life situations. She has a great many books for women as well as some life stories about her and her husband and their missionary colleagues. These are available on Amazon.com.

    Books by Elisabeth Elliot

    Through Gates of Splendor ? The story of five
    Missionaries killed in Ecuador by Auca Indians in
    1956.

    Shadow of the Almighty ? The life of Jim Elliot,
    including personal journals and letters, his love
    story, his missionary preparation and experience.

    The Journals of Jim Elliot ? The making of a
    20th century disciple; intimate and nearly
    unabridged.

    The Savage My Kinsman ? Photographs and
    text describing a year spent with the Aucas of
    Ecuador.

    These Strange Ashes ? Hard lessons in the
    sovereignty of God experienced in Elisabeth?s
    first year as a missionary.

    The Liberty of Obedience ? On Christian
    maturity and service; what a Christian is
    ?allowed? to do.

    Let Me be a Woman ? Notes for Valerie on what
    it means to be a woman, single, married, or
    widowed.

    Love Has a Price Tag ? Short essays, many
    topics.

    The Mark of a Man ? Notes for Pete on the
    responsibilities assigned to men by God; the
    meaning of masculinity.

    Discipline: The Glad Surrender ? What it
    means to accept the lordship of Christ in one?s
    body, mind, and emotions.

    Be Still My Soul ? Principles of Christian Living.

    Passion and Purity ? A true love story,
    illustrating principles by which to preserve ?the
    gift you give once?: virginity.

    A Lamp for My Feet ? Meditations from
    Elisabeth?s quiet time.

    On Asking God Why ? The mystery of suffering
    and other essays.

    A Path Through Suffering ? God?s love and our
    pain.

    God?s Guidance ? A slow and certain light.

    The Shaping of a Christian Family ? The story
    of the home in which Elisabeth grew up; its
    discipline, peace, order, and godliness.

    Keep a Quiet Heart ? Reflections on a variety of
    subjects ? culled from the Elisabeth Elliot
    Newsletter.

    Quest for Love ? Amazing stories of how God
    brings men and women together without dating.

    The Music of His Promises ? A collection of
    short pieces gathered over the years from
    Elisabeth?s personal quiet times.

    Secure in His Everlasting Arms ? A collection
    of Elisabeth?s reflections about security we can
    find in God?s love.

    No Graven Image ? Elisabeth?s only novel. A
    single missionary?s experience with the
    sovereignty of God.

    Path of Loneliness ? Finding your way through
    the wilderness to God

  12. Heh, me too. I learned something a few years that has made all the difference in my understanding of some difficult passages. Read several verses before and after the difficult passage and usually the meaning will be made clear. You see, I grew up in a church where the preacher landed on one verse every sermon and just harped his opinions and rabbit trails most of the time without considering the context of the passage. I didn't know anything about Hermeneutics - how to study and interpret the Bible. I have since had many gracious teachers and my beliefs have changed in some areas because I understood what the Bible was actually saying in its context. And the context passages of the unpardonable sin say nothing about rejecting Jesus for salvation.

    BTW, Hermeneutics is a good class to take at your church's Bible Institute if they offer it.

  13. Hm, I just reread it myself and can see how it could be confusing. :lol:

    Basically, go read Matthew 12 and Mark 3 and find out what the circumstances were surrounding Jesus' statement, who He was talking to, why He said it, etc.

    The Lord of the universe was in their presence, fulfilling all the prophecies they knew well (these were teachers of the law and prophets, after all), performing miracle after miracle and they still attributed everything He did to Satan. That was blaspheming the Holy Ghost. They had the audacity to say God was being controlled by Satan.

  14. IMO, Calvary gave a very clear answer on this.

    The context of a passage is so important and the contexts of those two passages answer this question quite well. There is nothing in either passage about rejecting Jesus for salvation. There is plenty though about the people of the time visibly seeing the mighty power of God and still refusing to believe He was Who He said He was.

  15. It definitely wasn't a French. I did some more searching and found out two things:

    1. Russian dressing is rather rare these days

    2. There are different colors of Russian dressing, varying from light orange to dark brown.


    I did find one particular brand of Russian dressing that looks like what I had. If I ever find it in the stores, I'll try it.

  16. The true fundamentals are those beliefs that are foundational to true Christianity. One must believe these in order to be a committed follower of Jesus Christ.

    Here are a few; other people will add more, no doubt. Remember that a "fundamental" is a foundational truth so something like music, though important, is not a "fundamental".


    The inerrancy of the Scriptures - The Bible was given by inspiration from God and is preserved by God and contains no errors.

    The virgin birth and deity of Jesus Christ - Jesus was born of the virgin, Mary, in fulfillment of prophecy. He did not have a sin nature passed to Him from an earthly father. He was fully God and fully man.

    Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone - Faith/Repentance plus nothing = salvation. It is not by our works or our merit.

    The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ - Jesus rose from the dead demonstrating His authority over death. He is the resurrection and the life.

  17. What salad dressings are opaque and around this color?

    I tasted a salad dressing many years ago that was fabulous but I cannot remember what kind it was. It was not a vinaigarette and it was not Thousand Island. A friend suggested that it might have been Russian dressing but when I Googled it in images, I couldn't come up with anything satisfactory.

  18. You aren't ready yet and I'm sure God is well aware of that fact. We have a friend who claimed bachelor-hood for many years but finally got married recently at the age of 33 or 34 because he finally met the right woman for him. Or rather, God brought the right one to him when the time was right.

  19. I think if you read both N.T. passages that talk about the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, you will see in the context that it is not resisting salvation. I agree with both Jerrys that the people in Jesus' time clearly saw all the fulfilled prophecies in Jesus and clearly saw the power of God demonstrated in their time and still chose to deny it and attributed Jesus' works to Satan.

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