brosmith

6 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

I've sat back to see if "brosmith" would respond, but he hasn't...

So "brosmith"...no apologies to the forum or administrators of the board for your failure to actually read the posts that you claimed to have read...that showed you were wrong?

No apologies to the forum or administrators for being proven wrong in your lack of actually reading the follow-up posts to the OP?

No apologies to the forum or administrators for condemning an entire board of users when you obviously didn't actually read whether anyone addressed the issue?

Shame on you.

You see...I don't want an apology for my part, but how dare you condemn an entire group of people for YOUR neglect. 

Next time...actually read the posts instead of inferring that you've read them...and jumping on EVERYONE because you think you've found something to get on a pedestal about, thump your chest, and put down an entire community...when you actually didn't read the posts.

Again I say, shame on you. I hope your years of not commenting were worth coming back and making us glad you haven't been commenting.

I'm tired of this stuff. If a moderator wants to remove this, I understand. 

The OP quoted extensively from "Tomorrow's World" website, speaking positively of their Bible study course and (as far as I could tell) no one had warned this person that "Tomorrow's World" is the outreach "ministry" of a cult that used to be called the Worldwide Church of God (Herbert W Armstrong) and is now known as the Living Church of God. Your "warning" stated

Quote

A quick internet search returned this...

From what little I've read, John Ogwyn is the person behind the course. Since he is affiliated with the "Living Church of God", I can't recommend his teachings.

This didn't sound like much of a warning to me. So, I felt the need to sound the alarm.

It has been several years since I last posted or commented on these discussion boards. I find it necessary to comment on this discussion because I am troubled by the lack of warning about those who promote false doctrine. The OP (Totoosart) ask about a Bible study course from "Tomorrow's World" and (as far as I can tell) no one warned this person that "Tomorrow's World" is the outreach "ministry" of a cult that used to be called the Worldwide Church of God (Herbert W Armstrong) and is now known as the Living Church of God. It only took me a few moments to discover the truth about "Tomorrow's World." What is your excuse for not exposing error and false doctrine?

https://www.tomorrowsworld.org/connect/about

https://www.lcg.org/about-us

https://www.lcg.org/official-statement-fundamental-beliefs

These are courses for Sunday Schools, Bible institutes, and Home Bible 
studies. Each of these courses is a pdf file on a CD that has unlimited 
printing privileges (yes, the copyright holder permits this). These are not 
copies of CDs. The publisher is Bible Baptist Church Publications in Oak 
Harbor, Washington.

ABC's of Christian Growth - $ 73.50
ABC's of Christian Growth - Answer Key - $ 35.00
ABC's of Christian Maturity (2 volumes) - $ 150.00
ABC's of Christian Maturity - Answer Key (2 volumes) - $ 50.00
Premarital Preparation Course - $ 36.00
Commentary - The Book of Acts - $ 95.00
Landmarks of Baptist Doctrine (4 volumes) - $ 216.00
Landmarks of Church History (2 volumes) - $ 175.00
Lectures in Pastoral Theology - $ 125.00
Lectures in the Life of Christ - $ 75.00
Lectures in the New Testament Epistles - $ 135.00
Manuscript Evidence for our English Bible - $ 155.00
Principles of Personal Evangelism - $ 75.00
The Life and Labors of the Apostle Paul - $ 125.00
Women in Ministry - $ 120.00
Procedures Manual (for starting a Bible institute) - $ 30.00

These are the original prices that I paid for this curriculum. My total cost 
was $1,670.50. I am willing to sell all of it for one price of $1,350.00 
(postage paid). I am also willing to sell individual courses at 15% off the 
price that I paid (postage paid).

Please send an email to brosmith@pioneerbaptist.org if interested.

 
 Finished your book. Once again, thanks. I really liked the use of sooooooo much Bible. When you have God's Word on the matter, it is had to argue. I gave it to my wife to read, but she is struggling with it. She LOVES her CCM and she feels those against it is be "nit-picky". So it is not the books prOBlem with her struggling to read it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...she don't want to believe her belief is broke.

 

     I appreciate the review. Sorry to here about your wife's struggles with CCM. We will pray that she gains the victory. I have been told privately by a friend of mine that I should watch my back over some of the things that I said in the book. It seems that I upset a few people because I named specific churches, specific people, and specific incidents. One of those churches is in the town that we live in and it seems that I caused quite a stir in that church. Oh well. That's life.

 

     Sincerely,

     Bro Steve Smith

     brosmith@pioneerbaptist.org

I am on page 50.  I am upset I have to put it down and get to work.  I would like to read more now, but will have to wait until tomorrow.  I am enjoying it.  Very informational.  I actually felt a little weird reading page 40 to 50, but you stated your reasoning for putting it in there and I think the details were needed to make your point.  I think it was because you named names and then went into great detail...i felt like I was seeing someone naked...anyway, I look forward to finishing it.  Thanks for making it available. 

 

     You are quite welcome. I appreciate your comments.

 

May God bless your book to open the blinded eyes of those whom have falling into this deception before Satan destroy's the church from within.  

 

 (Reviewing your book)

 

     I am sorry to hear about what you went through. Thank you for your kind words.

Dear Online Baptist family,

 

     I was wondering if there would be anyone that would be willing to do a book review for me?

 

     My book, The Day the Music Died, is available in PDF format free of charge (no kidding).

 

     The link is: www.pioneerbaptist.org/booklet/music.pdf

 

     I wrote this book about 3 1/2 years ago and have recently reformatted and expanded it. Some of you have already downloaded it from the Music forum. It is available to anyone who would like a copy. Bound printed copies are available for $15.00 each (with free shipping in the United States - no international orders please, sorry).

 

     Once you have read the book I would be very interested in hearing your feedback. You may send the PDF file to anyone that you think will read it. Thank you for your interest in this material.

 

Sincerely,

Bro Steve Smith

brosmith@pioneerbaptist.org

Fair enough. I don't always think it's particularly effective myself - but then it must get some results or the cults wouldn't do it! And as we have the Holy Spirit providing the increase, shouldn't we expect more than the simply human-powered results they see?

 

     A little food for thought when it comes to the effectiveness of door-to-door "soul-winning":

 

     Any salesman worth his salt can get results. Spiritual results, however, are accomplished through spiritual methods. Back in the summers of 1981 and 1982 I was trained on how to get "results" at the door. The method is akin to high pressure sales. However, the end does not justify the means.

 

Sincerely,

Bro Steve Smith

brosmith@sonlightchristianradio.com

www.sonlightchristianradio.com

 

     I may be considered a heretic when I say this but I believe that door-to-door "soul-winning" is a very ineffective method of witnessing (and I might add that it is not Biblical). You heard me right: I believe that there is no Biblical basis for door-to-door "soul-winning." The only verse that even comes close to being a proof-text for it is Acts 20:20 - "And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house," The only problem is that this verse applies to home Bible studies, not to witnessing.

 

     Here are the verses that we should be using: Luke 24:13-15 - "And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.  And they talked together of all these things which had happened.  And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them." As we travel in this life we are to talk publicly of the things of God to one another and to those that cross our paths. This is the most effective way of witnessing.

 

Sincerely,

Bro Steve Smith

brosmith@sonlightchristianradio.com

www.sonlightchristianradio.com

I have an approved Form 4361 (exemption from Social Security and Medicare taxes on ministerial earnings). I have had this for about 20 years. My question is this: How does Obamacare effect those who already have an approved Form 4361? My reason for asking this is that when I applied for the 4361 exemption I had to agree to the following statement:

 

"I certify that I am conscientiously opposed to, or because of my religious principles I am opposed to, the acceptance (for services I perform as a minister, member of a religious order not under a vow of poverty, or Christian Science practitioner) of any public insurance that makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age, or retirement; or that makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care. (Public insurance includes insurance systems established by the Social Security Act.)"

 

This statement is in relation to ministerial earnings only. However, it would seem that Obamacare certainly qualifies as public insurance. Has anybody explored this issue? What are the legal ramifications and how will the IRS view it if a minister already has an approved Form 4361 and then applies for Obamacare?

 

Bro Steve Smith

brosmith@sonlightchristianradio.com

www.sonlightchristianradio.com

I have a son who works at the RU national headquarters in Rockford, Illinois. He and his wife are members of North Love Baptist Church. After seeing first hand what RU has to offer I reject it whole-heartedly. My reasons:

 

#1 - Man-centered teaching. Steve Currington wrote the majority of RU material and it is man-centered not Bible centered (centered around Steve Currington).

 

#2 - Copying the world when it comes to promotions and fund raising (anyone ever heard that at one time they were selling 1 sq inch of Lincoln's Family Farm for $100).

 

#3 - Fraudulent Activities. Each year they would lay their employees off for about 6 weeks, have them collect unemployment, and then tell them that they still needed to do their jobs. This was done to save RU money.

 

#4 - I despise the use of the word "Reformers" because the Bible calls us overcomers.

Agreed - so when we look at fruit of the Gettys - the words of that hymn, is it a good, edifying Biblical hymn? If the words are good - as they are, the Gettys are not corrupt by that test Jesus has given us.

The fact that we agree that we do not like the style of singing & musical accompaniment may simply be a matter of our taste - (Pharisaical taste?)

I can only conclude from the above statements that:

#1 - You are trying to rationalize and justify the usage of CCM as being acceptable.

#2 - You are ignoring (or refusing to accept) the obvious teachings of the scriptures.

The Bible teaches us that truly spiritual people cannot bring forth carnality.

The usage of rock music proves that the Getty's are operating on a carnal basis and therefore anything that they produce is corrupted by their carnality. It does not matter if the words of their songs are "scriptural" or even scripture quotations. This is why the so-called "modern hymn movement" is so wrong. It is leading undiscerning people to swallow the devil's lies.

You can call it "Pharisaical taste" if you like, but you are feasting on carnality which leads to destruction.

My point is that many of their hymns can serve the church when they are separated from the "entertainment" in which they are presented in the link. It sounds good when sung with a piano or organ. Would you sing this hymn if it were by Wesley or Watts - or Newton? It's a lot better than the hymnbook staple "Onward Christian Soldiers."

Your point is contrary to sound doctrine. The Getty's are providing and promoting contemporary Christian music dressed up as "modern hymns". They are entertainers providing so-called "spiritual" entertainment but nothing spiritual (from a Biblical perspective) will ever come from such a polluted fountain. And by the way, just because a song "sounds good" when played on the piano or organ does not necessarily mean that the song is good. Many rock songs "sound good" when listened to by the carnal person.

Matthew 7:18 - "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

Matthew 12:33 - "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit."

Keith & Kristyn Getty have a very positive influence on Christian music ...

Is this a positive influence:

[media=]

This song is included in the Rejoice Hymns hymn book. This video is available on the Getty's website.

Eric Wyse is an accomplished keyboardist, songwriter, church musician, and record producer. Since 1993, Eric has served as Organist St. Bartholomew's Episcopal Church in Nashville, Tennessee, and was named Director of Music in 2001.

As a pianist, Eric has recorded the best-selling "Reflections" series of solo piano music for Christian Book Distributors, with sales in excess of 200,000 units. His organ work was featured on the worship project "City on a Hill - Sing Alleluia".

He is the co-writer for the modern hymn, "Wonderful, Merciful Savior," penned in 1989 with his wife, Dawn Rodgers. Recorded by numerous Christian artists including Selah, Phillips Craig & Dean, Kari Jobe, Anthony Evans, Kathy Troccoli, Travis Cottrell, and Clay Cross, the song received a 2002 Gospel Music Association Dove Award nomination for “Inspirational Song of the Year”. It appears in many new hymnals, including Rejoice Hymns (Majesty Music, 2011), Songs of Worship and Praise (2010, Taylor Publications), The Baptist Hymnal (2008, LifeWay Worship), Hymns for a Pilgrim People (GIA/NAACC, 2007), and Christian Life Hymnal (Hendrickson, 2006). Other songs written by Eric include "Lamb of God (Angus Dei)" recorded by BeBo Norman and his setting of the Lord's Prayer, "Our Father in Heaven", which is gaining acceptance in churches across the country.

An award-winning producer and consultant in recording and video production, Eric has worked with a variety of artists, including Keith & Kristyn Getty, The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir, CeCe Winans, Amy Grant, Donnie McClurkin, and Hee Haw’s LuLu Roman. In 2007, he produced a critically acclaimed full-length London recording of Handel's Messiah with British conductor John Rutter, featuring The Cambridge Singers & Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. Eric is married to Dawn Rodgers and resides in Brentwood, Tennessee. They have two teenage children. A native of Brattleboro, Vermont, Eric studied piano, organ, and church music at Cedarville University (Ohio), completing his undergraduate studies at Belmont University (Nashville) with a BS in Liberal Studies. He is currently purusing a Masters of Church Music at Lee University (Cleveland, TN).

http://www.scoreexch...ofiles/ericwyse

Has anyone ever heard the sermon illustration about all of the men in some church missing a particular Sunday to go to a NASCAR race (or maybe another version of this illustration)? I am curious, because I thought I had heard this particular illustration before. I heard it again in a message that I was listening to online and this time it was told by a preacher who said that he was visiting this church at the time of the incident.

had to jump back in here for a moment: an excerpt from a couple of Dr. Hyles' books. They can be found at www.jackhyles.com From "Misunderstood repentance"

"Over and over again the question is asked me, "Is repentance necessary for salvation?" Of course, this is of utmost importance. Anything that deals with the way a person can escape the fires of eternal Hell and go to Heaven to live forever is of vital importance. In this chapter, we will address this most important question".

The entire booklet is good, and much is said about repentance.

Dr. Hyles DOES believe in repentance, and preaches it. Another unfounded rumor put to rest.

But what does Jack Hyles say that repentance is?

Here are some quotes from that same book and same chapter that you were quoting from:

"There are those who say we have to repent of our sins in order to be saved. No, we have to repent only of the thing that makes us unsaved, and that is unbelief."

"Salvation is simply repenting of unbelief, and believing, and letting Christ save us."

"God says to the unsaved, "Repent of your unbelief.""

I call that heresy. His idea of repentance is based upon twisted logic.!

I know it's meant to be funny, but to me it is disgusting:

http://vimeo.com/35983501

Blind loyalty? It is interesting that someone coins a term and it catches on like wildfire!

I first heard the term "blind loyalty' back in 1985 at Cornerstone Baptist Church in Colorado Springs. It was preached from the pulpit as a good and necessary thing to practice.

By the way, isn't faith "blind loyalty"? ... If faith is "blind loyalty" then perhaps you are blindly serving the Lord! Think about it.

No, faith is not blind loyalty. We are not called to serve the Lord blindly. That is absurd.

Psalms 34:8, "O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him."

You are setting up a straw man argument. We are told in the scriptures to have faith in God (not a man) and we are only to follow those men who are true followers of God. Yes, I believe in loyalty to the man of God. But I will compare everything to the word of God and I am not afraid to challenge any preacher who gets out of line with the scriptures!

Anathema Maranatha!

You are calling a curse upon those who disagree with you?

By the way, that doesn't surprise me. Blind loyalty causes you not to be able to see the truth. Not even the God of the universe demands blind loyalty from His followers. But Jack Hyles did (and so did/does many others - I have seen it first hand). Let's all bow to the new god of the universe - Jack Hyles!

Here is my answer to the question:

Easter is a pagan holiday that no true Christian should ever celebrate.

I believe that most soul winners are seriously trying to win others, but we over emphasize "Knowing how to do it!" Again, it is not our "know how" that saves them, but the grace of God who sees beyond the error of mans foolishness and looks upon the heart of the needy. Do you think God can't save someone without you, Mr. Mouth? (To whoever was responsible for such rash statements.) Is it "my way, or no way?" Come on, let's get real! We all know the truth of these words, but pride distorts it into something it isn't. Teach me, old wise one, or shut up.

Back in the summers of 1981 and 1982 I was one of Joe Boyd's preacher boys. I saw first hand how man's methodology was overemphasized. 'Drawing the net' was considered to be the most important thing. Use their plan and method and you were pretty much guaranteed success (the Carl Hatch method of soulwinning was considered to be the best). I was trained by Randy Taylor, Oliver Araiza, and Mark Wilson (although I have not seen these men in many years). It is my hope that these men (and the many others who are like them) will someday recognize the errors of their way and repent in dust and ashes.

I differ with David Cloud on one issue: I don't call it Southern Gospel or Rap. I call it rock and roll. It would have hit the rock charts back when I was a teenager (in the 1970's). Maranatha is definitely promoting the rock and roll spirit. But then they have been following the new evangelical path of compromise and tolerance for years. Even though it is saddening and sickening to see any so-called fundamental Bible college go down the drain (spiritually speakening), it shouldn't be surprising given the track record of compromises that were committed along the way. A Bible college (or a church, or a preacher) doesn't just suddenly accept ungodliness as being something good and desireable.

Lectures in Personal Evangelism by Gary S. Prisk - 5 copies
Lectures in the Life of Paul by Gary S. Prisk - 4 copies
Landmarks of Baptist Doctrine Book 1 by Pastor Robert J Sargent - 5 copies
Landmarks of Baptist Doctrine Book 2 by Pastor Robert J Sargent - 5 copies
The ABC's of Christian Growth by Pastor Robert J Sargent - 5 copies

All items are in good usable condition (almost like new). I have had these stored and want to sell them as one lot. I am asking $150.00 with free U.S. shipping. I can accept PayPal or money order. Send email if interested.

Bro Steve Smith
brosmith@pioneerbaptist.org