Jerry

This is my opinion and my personal experience talking with others - but for all my experience and all that others have expressed to me, a backslider is ashamed or embarassed to talk about Jesus, etc. because they are not doing right. They typically do not renounce God, the Bible, Christianity, reject the doctrines they previously embraced. To reject what you once professed is what is referred to as apostasy. A backslider is not an apostate, and an apostate was never saved in the first place - despite how fervent and religious they might have seemed to others at some point in the past.

We don’t earn our way to heaven by our behaviour. You are right. BUT if someone rejects God down the road, that is not an issue of bad behaviour or backsliding, that is proof the faith was never from the heart, never real in the first place. Matthew 13:5-6 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. Luke 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

If you are in any way, shape, or form teaching a true believer can be saved and lose it or fall away, then you are an utter heretic who does not understand the Gospel. The Bible DOES teach that salvation IS eternal, CANNOT ever be lost, that Jesus SAVES AND KEEPS His own ETERNALLY. Yes, some teach say a prayer and you are saved forever, even if you reject the Lord further down the road. That is not someone who lost their salvation, that is an example of someone who never got saved in the first place - they got a bit religious, a bit of head knowledge without true faith to back it up, then they turned away when things got hard (like the parable of the sower and seed teaches). They did not lose their salvation. Those who rejected the Lord or the things of God down the road (the Bible, true Christianity, true believers, etc. as a whole) were never saved to begin with. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. The solution is to keep preaching the truth - including repentance and faith - and not go to the opposite extreme and believe that every tare is an actual believer (despite what Jesus warned!), and therefore have to twist the Bible to fit a theology teaching true believers can be lost. Jesus saves and keeps His own, nothing can separate a true believer from His love, nothing can take them out of the Father's or His hands, nothing can unregenerate them, nor unadopt them, nor make their eternal life temporal life, nor take away the inheritance they have in Christ, nor the home He left to prepare for them. God's salvation is forever.

All of the books of the Bible are Scripture - from the OT prophets, to the Law, to the Psalms, to the NT books and epistles. Peter’s (and James’, and John’s, and Jude’s) are just as much Scripture as Paul’s - and are just as applicable to the church as Paul’s. Only a hyper-dispensationalist (which is extreme false teaching) would say otherwise. Each NT epistle has a different focus, not different doctrine.

There you go twisting things to an opposite extreme to try to make a point. Actually, Christianity - being called a Christian - is a denomination. Like I pointed out before, the NT word is SECT, which means the same as denomination. It’s an identification showing basically at the start that it was (in a way) an offshoot or progression of Judaism. Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Oh no, they said this was a denomination. Acts 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against. And again… Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Peter and the other Apostles did not preach another Gospel or other doctrine - Peter might have been confused on how things related to the Gentiles until God cleared it up for him, but he didn’t believe another Gospel. Also, Paul teaches baptism as much as the other NT writers - that it was a step of obedience to Christ and identification with His death, burial and resurrection. No Bible writer ever taught it was more than that. John the Baptist taught it was evidence or proof of their repentance, that was all.

Yup, ALL the NT epistles/books give us doctrine. Why hyperfocus on Paul? He’s not the only NT writer either.

Jesus does not mind? Sorry, the Bible commands us not to make images of God/Jesus - so yes, God does mind if you promote idolatry. I know it’s off topic - but I feel very strongly against the promoting of any kind of sin. Someone who creates idols/images of Jesus in disobedience to His Word doesn’t love Him very much… I won’t say any more about that in respect to the overall theme of this thread, but just because you accept something doesn’t make it right. You should be contending for ALL the Word of God, not picking and choosing which parts you like.

If this is real, I truly do not know what to say. How would you go about freeing a kidnapped victim by yourself, when you are undergoing such severe health issues, etc.? God does not want you taking the vigilante route. Perhaps you could contact the local law enforcement (whatever they call that where you are).

This is the verse from the KJv: 1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. If you do not have easy access to a Bible program you can copy/paste from, try this site: https://www.blueletterbible.org

A good source that is 200 years closer (to the meaning words had when translated in the KJB) in definition than any modern or politically correct dictionary - Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines the word as: REPLEN'ISH, verb transitive [Latin re and plenus, full.] 1. To fill; to stock with numbers or abundance. The magazines are replenished with corn. The springs are replenished with water. Multiply and replenish the earth. Genesis 1:28.

"BE" does not mean "believe." I get the point you are making but you are giving an unbiblical definition of a word (and one not found in any dictionary either).

If you're a messianic Jew, why do you have pics of a Catholic/Babylonian Jesus with long hair? The OT teaches men (or at least the priests, of which type was fulfilled in Jesus) were to cut their hair every 30 days, AND Jesus obeyed and fulfilled the Law. Plus, 1 Corinthians 11 is still in my Bible, and in one of Paul's letters!

All of NT doctrine is for the church (not just Paul's writiings) - actually ALL the Bible is for doctrine, though it must be rightly divided. 2 Timothy 3:14-17 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. The NT teaches that the NT church is the primary thing (though not saying the only thing) God uses to perfect the saints in this age. He also uses the work of the Holy Spirit with the Word of God. Ephesians 4:11-15 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. Hebrews 5:12-14 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. There are various other passages that teach perfection is something the true believer in Christ can achieve/attain in this life (not sinlessness, but maturity), but it not something we automatically have - it is through spiritual growth we are made perfect. Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.James 3:1-2 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. Paul wasn't perfected yet in the sense of being all that the Lord wanted him to be (or would make him to be one day): Philippians 3:7-12 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. But he was perfect in the sense of being a mature believer in Christ: Philippians 3:13-15 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Behold, the rules on these forums are to quote only from the King James Bible - not a hodgepodge of different Bible versions. Please do so. If possible, please also edit your posts to reflect that or at least add posts in the future with the KJB. Thank you. Also, we are not perfected yet - ie. the moment we come to Christ. The word is used mainly in two senses - maturity in Christ**, and that happens the more we walk with the Lord and are part of a local NT church. Some also use it in the sense of having our sin nature removed (which use is not in the Bible), but this will not happen until we go to heaven or are changed from mortal to immortal at the rapture, when we receive our new bodies. **Yes, a believer can be perfect/mature in the sense the word is mostly used in the NT, but again that comes with time and walking with the Lord.

No, but we are called to abide in the truth, learn it, hold to it - and that will eventually involve finding a church/denomination that holds more closely to the truth, if there are any doctrinal or practical issues with the church you came to the Lord in or started attending after you got saved. Yes, that will involve growth and more understanding of Bible truth as you walk closer with the Lord through the years. I see too many stunt their growth because they don't care about making choices based on truth, because it means they might leave their family church or their social club. But God is more concerned with perfecting His body (each church corporately and each individual separately) than making them feel comfortable and stale wherever they have been for untold years. P.S. Why do you have a Catholic picture of "Jesus"? Deuteronomy 4:15-19 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. Acts 17:24-27 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: The halo around the head is from Babylon, and then was added to Catholicism over the years.

Repentance is not cleaning up your life - but it is changing your mind about your sin in a way that means you no longer desire it the same way you did before. Many of the old time fundamentalists and evangelists had a clear understanding of it and preached it. Nowadays, many believe it doesn’t matter or they redefine it - yet Jesus said without turning in your heart from your sin there is no salvation. If you are an idolator (for example), but you don’t change your mind (ie. repent) of that specific sin and turn from it, then you are not truly turning to the true God, are you? It is letting the sin go so you can receive God’s gift of eternal life. It is acknowledging the Lordship of Christ in your life so you no longer live like you did when you were lost, realizing His Word is the guide for your life and God has the authority to tell you what to do. Some have Biblically defined repentance as “a change of mind resulting in a change of conduct” (as that is how it is always shown in the Bible). It is not the change of conduct, but the mindset that leads to it, and leads to true salvation (ie. being regenerated by the Holy Spirit and being changed forever).

Maybe - but you are never going to arrive at the truth in any discussion by blurring the lines of truth and error, hence the clarification.

Right, loving God means being separate from sin and holy in our own lives. Loving others means we face them with their sin (which would include dealing with the 10 commandments they have broken when we witness to them). Worldly and watered-down “Christianity” teaches that we are to accept everything about the lost or our fellow Christians because of God’s grace - yet grace teaches us to turn from sin AND gives us the power to overcome sin in our lives. Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Leviticus 19:17-18 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. That verse above states that true love means we deal with sin, not overlook it. (Yes, there are other passages about putting away and covering sin in the lives of those who have repented of them. For example, Proverbs 10:12 and 17:9.)

Right. Also, Biblical live is not an emotion - it is doing right to our enemies even if we don’t feel like it. Love is obeying God towards them. I may not feel any warm emotions towards them, but I won’t seek to do them harm, won’t lie to them, steal from them, think or act inappropriately sexually towards them, if they are an authority over me I will obey and respect them - plus, I will do good to them in the way God expects me to: witnessing, helping them according to God’s will, not slandering them or gossiping about them or to them, etc. Basically, obeying God in all my actions and dealings towards them.

Why do you think people here have a negative impression of you? I don’t think that is the case. Some, like me, asked some questions to try to understand what you were saying and what you say was happening to you. Thanks for posting the hymn lyrics. It’s a great song.

Repentance regarding man is usually dealing with the sin they are guilty of or of some behaviour towards others (not essential to this post but can explain and give an example of what I am referring to here, if needed). Luke 13:2-5 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Repentance doesn’t mean believe. Luke 17:3-4 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. It does not say, repent of his unbelief, but of his wickedness.

No, repentance is a change of mind about our sin. It is turning in our hearts FROM those sins (accepting that they are against God and condemn us), and faith is turning TO the Lord for salvation (believing who Jesus is, trusting in His finished work of redemption and receiving His righteousness).

Hm, the Bible teaches both sides of this coin are essential for salvation - not something that comes later. Though, yes, true Christianity involves a lifetime of repentance, there are many passages that teach we turn from our sins (in our hearts, which is what repentance is) to Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Again, the same old same old stuff - oh, you don't believe my personal theology, you are guilty of going along with the crowd and not studying things out for yourself. That is not the case. I have spent a lot of time studying out false teachings and comparing them with the Bible, sometimes from firsthand sources and sometimes from apologetics ministries, sometimes just me and my Bible. Besides: 2 Corinthians 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. If your theology is so esoteric only the elite or a special group of professing believers can understand it, then it is not of God. There is a simplicity in Christ that any true believer can understand if they take the time to dig into the Scriptures and study them. Sorry if I don't grasp and accept every aspect of your elite theology.