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Websites (or at least a Facebook page) are a requirement nowadays, I think. If I'm searching for a church to visit, I won't even consider any that I can't first look up their statement of faith and peruse their website. But the website needs to look like it was updated within the last 15 years!

Proverbs 1:7 -- "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." In my opinion, they are leaving because they lack the foundational motivation of heart to stay. They are more concerned about what pleases them than they are about what pleases God. They do not possess the fear and love of the Lord in their hearts. Rather, they possess the love of self and the world in their hearts. They are dull of hearing toward the teaching and preaching of God's Word because they do not possess a foundational fellowship with the God of the Word. They have entangled themselves with the riches, pleasures, and social connections of this life and world; and those things are choking out their desire for the Lord their God and His Holy Word. It is ALL about the priority of their hearts.

When a younger IFB, (I became one in my 20's while in the Navy), I was, of course, brought up in the idea that the tithe was unquestionable, and absolute. I never bothered to question it-of course, I was learning so much new, but didn't do a lot of searching at the time. It wasn't until much later that my father gave me some of his old Bible college papers he had written, since I was preparing to become a pastor, and one the things he wrote was why He believed the tithe was not for today. I read it once and kind of poo-pooed it, but it stuck in my mind and I began to study it out and came to find that he had, indeed, done his homework, and was correct, that the only reason churches teach a tithe today is because they just seem to want that money and it is often easier to obtain by making it basically a matter of "you're stealing from God!', if you don't. The Bible is really quite plain: the tithe was OT, it was, by the law, generally made up of foodstuffs, not money. Before the law there are only two instances of a tithe, or a tenth, and both were by choice: Abraham giving a tithe to Melchezidek, which was only a one time deal, and it came from the things taken in the battle, not his own property. The other was Jacob, and his tenth had a condition attached to it, being that God returned him back to his father and homeland in peace, THEN he would give God "the tenth part', so it wasn't even so much the first tenth, but the tenth part; and we actually never see the fulfillment of this promise and how he did it. so pre-law tithing is very limited, purely voluntary, and each apparently single incidents. After the law we never see one place where it was given in money, gold, silver or any such thing, always food. And it WAS an aspect of the law. The NT clearly teaches freewill giving, as we have been prospered by God.

No one denies that things such as you outlined happen. it is then that you need to diligently search out a church home where you can agree with their doctrine and program. But speaking to the issue I presented, a sixty mile radius of you is not "most everything" or "the majority". That was the statement I was speaking to. I sincerely hope you find what you are looking for.

As for my church, every way you mentioned. Sermons are posted to Vimeo and linked to our website and they also live stream on Facebook. This is done to accommodate our infirm members, those too sick to attend. We started with one screen and then later added two more above the choir loft. No rock and roll stage, a piano on one side and an organ on the other. I think it a great mistake for believers to trade the bible in a book format for one in electronic format. It's hard to grow intimate with the pages when you have none, with the leather when all you have is glass and plastic dependent on electricity. Don't remove the ancient landmarks!

My seven grandchildren are all millennials. None of them go to church. Their reason is they all grew up in public school and are evolutionists. They were not taught the Word in school. They believe in the science they were taught. After 12-16 years of school their "truth" is based on this science. I keep trying, but it is hard to overcome this situation.

While we are not a church plant, we are in an area of very limited numbers. When I began the finances were taken care of by a lady who was very good with it. However they left, due to age, wanting to live near family, so the money was taken over by my wife and I, as we are quite small, and most of the people we deal with in our church have no ability to see to their own finances, much less the church's. As you probably agree, it is not a position I prefer to be in, BUT, since my wife and I, along with three people who aren't even part of our church anymore, are really the only ones who ever give, well, there's not much to work with anyways. We once had a man who wanted a full accounting of the money coming in. He gave a couple times while there, but, again, while no one else was giving, and at this point, he had not for quite some time, I told him I would get him a list of bills and what came in, but he wanted a big accounting, and I told him, not giving himself, that he wasn't entitled to it. This was very shortly before we lost our building due to lack of giving, and I think he figured we were misusing the vast stores of riches that were coming in. Later, he left the church, but some of the younger members were still in contact with him, and he got them all fired up for an accounting of the money. Mind you, not ONE of these people ever gave a dime, even though some worked full time jobs. They said, What do you do with the offerings? I said, What offerings? I asked them, what offerings have you given that I need to account for, and of course, none could answer at all. However, my wife went over the entire last, like, five years of giving, (except what we gave, as it wasn't their business), to show that really, nothing was coming in. The bills were being paid primarily by us, only. They were pretty embarrassed and never asked again. Of course, not embarrassed enough to start giving.

I JUST taught on fasting last Sunday night! It isn't a terribly popular subject, but it is such an important thing. It has many benefits to it, and God promises that those who fast in secret, God will reward openly!

To answer the original question of should Christians tithe during the corona virus? YES!!! I understand times are tough, but even when I was unemployed, I still gave what I believe God was telling me to give. Follow God's leading, He'll never leave nor forsake you.

Well, I do not believe tithing is a NT principle in the first place, but giving definitely is, so I will approach from that perspective: As far as, should Christians keep giving? Absolutely! As we are prospered, so we ought to give to God's work. Of course, those out of work, on furloughs, laid-off, etc, well, see to your family first; many are out of work so they cannot be expected to continue. Church expenses should be a bit down for buildings, in power usage and without normal activities, but I also know utility companies and mortgage companies are being told to give breaks during this time, as well. This is also a good time for believers to practice helping one another, as those who are still working should help see to the needs of those members who cannot right now. This is also a basic Bible principle. Brethren in need, don't hide your needs from those who are still doing alright-we need to know your plight if we are to help. Brethren who are still working, time to put basic NT tenets to work! Don't be stingy with what God prospers you with.

The article is excellent and the testimony by Miss Daisy breaks my heart.

That’s exactly what happened to my old church. I’d left the area for about 15 years when I returned my old church was replaced by black curtains so it was dark as night in there. Rock concert music, fog machines and singers in mini skirts rocking out with a pastor with punk hair and ripped jeans. I still attended because they had a great youth pastor, who was in his forties and my daughter loved going to all the activities. Then the pastor decided the youth pastor wasnt as hip and cool as he wanted the new image of the church to be and fired him. That caused a split from the older core members from the young crowd. We and a lot of the older crowd left. Discouraged by church politics I didn’t go for a few years until I went to my church now. The church I left has been plagued with infidelity rumors about new pastors and singing directors and the young girls singing on stage. But it remains the same rock concert appealing to the flesh and lust of lost sheep.

Unfortunately that is what happens when parents do not take the education of their children seriously. When our children are turned over to the state for indoctrination what else do we expect? I went to public school. I didn't get saved until I was an adult. Evolution was ingrained in my mind as a fact. Even though I didn't really understand it I just accepted it as true. After I got saved the first time I heard a pastor preach about young earth creationism I was looking around the auditorium wondering if anyone else was as confused and shocked as I was. It took a lot of time for the Word to sink in and break down those strongholds.

I am of the opinion that it is a combination of both positions that is the truth. I think there is a lot of shallowness and hardness in IFB that is driving people away, but I also acknowledge that there is a lot of worldly temptations that is also drawing them away. I do not think we have an either or situation here, but rather a "these are both problems" scenario.

I have thought about if/how I should respond to this post. I have decided that I will. I have to respectfully disagree with what you have said here Pastor Markle. While what you say is true it is not exclusive to the Millennial generation. Christian's of all ages groups act this way, senior citizens to children. Although I hate to admit it but depending on what source you consult I am often found belonging to the Millennial generation. I was born in 1984. My answer is my opinion so you can take it or leave it but this is what I believe... This generation is one of the first generations to have access to almost unlimited information at the drop of a hat. Any question they have or any issue they want to research can be done so at anytime. With that being said when they ask a question a canned, surface level response often times will not suffice for them. When they press the issue and try to get a more thorough response they are accused of questioning authority. So they get shut down, mad, and offended. What often times began as sincere questioning turns into anger and frustration and a belief that their elders and church leadership don't know what they are talking about. I believe easy believism has played a big role in this because many of our churches are full of these types of people that don't have a real relationship with Jesus Christ, they are followers of men. Followers of men can't answer spiritual questions. Those people don't study the Scriptures and don't know how to study the Scriptures and sadly many of our churches don't teach people how to study the Scriptures. Many sermons preached are a verse or a part of a verse taken out of context and then 3-5 ideas the preacher came up with to support their removed from context launching point. That is shallow amateurism at best and fraudulent and deceptive at worst. I have heard this type of thing defended and justified many times. When the goal of the door to door "soulwinner" is the same as a Kirby vaccum salesman we have a serious problem. They only thing they are after is getting someone to repeat the sinner's prayer. Then declare the person saved to the church. If it is then questioned why that person never comes to church and doesn't want follow up visits the normal response is "well they were just after fire insurance". There is no such thing as fire insurance. When a person is born again they receive the gift of eternal life by grace through faith, the indwelling of the Spirit of God, and a new heart, all of which results in a drastically changed life. When these things don't happen and repeated excuses are made to down play it people will take note and question it, then the cycle from above repeats. To sum it all up I believe many Millennials want to see genuine people and be able to ask genuine questions and get genuine answers. I believe that often times we fail to be able to do that. It is easy to point the finger at Millennials and say they are the problem and all they are interested in is deifying themselves. It is much harder to look in the mirror and say I have failed to share the message of Christ in a genuine way and make myself available to those that need Christ and need to grow in His grace. The deification of man has been happening for thousands of years, it is not something new...

My thoughts exactly. It's so sad/gross to see this happen so much.

I've always taught a freewill tithe. The New Testament church is structured after the Melchizedek priesthood and Paul makes it clear that he has a right to be paid, as does other ministers of the Gospel. (1 Corinthians 9). If they are to be paid then our example to teach is the tithe but not of commandment or constraint but of a free will and cheerful heart. I've studied the tithe and Christian giving in depth at church as well, which can be found here for those interested in the freewill tithe of Christians: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPBnTVkjTpCIMXwSG6O5iqZUl3LCiqrGf

Nevermind. I'll let you and everyone off the hook. Don't worry about answering. We IFBs claim we only stick to God's word...and we do...until our man-made doctrines take priority over what God's word actually teaches and says. Have any of us actually studied the tithe, or have we just been satisfied to accept what we've been told? That sounds good, but it's not biblical concerning the tithe whatsoever. I'm sorry, but don't we want the truth of God's word instead of what we "consider"? Here's a question for everyone... Which takes priority...tithing or providing for your family? There are consequences to both. Don't answer here (or to yourself) unless you've had to make a decision between the two. Now...at some point...please look up the answers for the questions that I posed...and ask yourself who changed the answers to what God's word clearly states. Did God EVER change those answers concerning the tithe that he COMMANDED, or did man change it? I've made some friends here, and I'm grateful for that...but it's time for me to leave. I've preached tithing as hard as anyone in the past. However, I will do what God's word teaches for New Testament believers... 1. Give as I purpose in my heart for the special offerings for others. 2. Give to help support my pastor. Take care everyone.

Well, technically if you do tithe whenever you do have income, and have the desire to tithe even when you do not have income, then you are still tithing... I've also always considered the tithe more than just income but rather includes all that we have been blessed with. Time, talents, treasures, and our praises, etc

And the baby grew up to be a scuba diver

I believe the following reasons are why millennial's are leaving the Church: 1) The cost associated with being a follower of Christ is absent from Gospel presentation, easy-believism is promoted heavily in the Church today. Also, a lot of Pastors as well as Christians in general fail to confront sin while presenting the Gospel. When a person doesn't understand the cost of being a follower of Jesus as well as their sin, they don't feel the need to stay in Church. 2) The lack of discipleship in Churches. Jesus was very hands on and intentional in His discipleship and so were His apostles. Nowadays, when someone gets saved, we get them baptized, tell them to read their Bible, tell them to go to Church, clap for them, and then move on with our lives. While all of those things are true, that isn't discipleship. What every new believer needs is the discipleship of a mature believer. I am sure some may disagree, but that has been what I have witnessed over the years. God bless!

Even if one holds to a "tithe principle", $0 x 10% = $0. So, at $0 you've still tithed. Offerings and alms - there's another story. If the Lord leads - it doesn't matter what financial wisdom dictates (just like pre-COVID or mid-employment times) This post is intended to approach from the side of any who may hold to a NT "tithe" in an effort to avoid the thread from being sidetracked into a tithe fight.

Well now, you managed to push my button. No, it is not for the pastor to relegate the job to an evangelist to preach what he won't!!!!! If there is a topic or passage that a given evangelist does a better job of conveying Bible truth to folks than the pastor can, I don't have a problem with him getting a guest preacher for it. HOWEVER, if the pastor's is worried about being rebuked or voted out due to preaching Bible -- he needs to grow up, determine whether he is called of God to preach, and if so then preach because your final accountability is to God and His Word!!!!!!! NOT to give someone else the task of doing your job that you're afraid will get you "fired". The pulpit is NO place for games, church politics or "career building"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think maybe just the term "Baptist" was coined as a denomination, so to speak.

We are living in the last days, you will not hear this in the modern church today. What we are seeing right now before our eyes, as when Christ came to this earth the first time. People could not see the truth, man did not fear God. Money is still the root of all evilness. Churches today, with their tithes and offering that are just covering the churches mega budgets, and large salaries. Entertainment and shows, must help to pay for all this. More and more churches, but less Christians, Sad.

Sadly, that "pastor" needs to get saved as well. That church isn't dying, it likely never was, and certainly is not now one of Christ's New Testament Churches of the kind that Jesus started. We see this all the time sadly.

I think we’re getting a bit off topic here, and the repentance reference will likely take it further off. Let’s keep this thread to the technology subject; if anyone would like to discuss repentance/doctrine or issues in churches, they are welcome to start new threads.

Family integrated churches don't have this problem, because the parents don't send their children off into rooms with strange adults. The definition of "strange" is anyone who is not your immediate family. If you don't have a youth pastor, he cannot molest your children. On top of that, churches are warming up to the sodomites, even putting them in children's ministries. Run out of that church as fast as you can.

There is plenty of hard preaching against Islam and false religions online from church services. Nobody get picketed for it. The only picketing comes from pastors preaching hard against the sodomites. Even then , it doesn't last long, and the sodomites go back to their filthy deeds and leave them alone. A friend of mine that moved away from a church that has been picketed for preaching against the sodomites online just had to quit the only IFB church within three hours of where they now live because he found out that the pastor was allowing a convicted child molester and sodomite attend their church while keeping it from their members. Islam isn't our biggest problem.

My wife and I have been looking for a Baptist Church to belong to, but have given up in our area. One of the two that were KJV was a church called Victory Baptist. When we were searching, of course we used the internet, because the yellow pages are there as well. This church didn't have a web site, or even a Facebook page informing people of service times, church doctrine, etc. We found it, and went there for a couple of months. What we did find is that the pastor had a web site for his own family's ministry, where he sold his books and such, but nothing for his church. After attending for a while, I concluded that churches that don't even have a facebook page, let alone a web site, which are both free nowadays, have something to hide. Our First Baptist Church is now called "Wellspring Church". I have a feeling that they used to be baptist, now they are not, so they took the name off of the sign. Victory Baptist says "Independent" on their sign, and I have to wonder if they took the "fundamental" part off of the sign at some point. In my experience, the more technological a church is, the less fundamental they are, because the technology is part of the reason people come, not the doctrine, or the work being done in the churches. In my town, they have revolving "in" churches. It used to be the Calvary Chapel church, and then it switched to a church by the name of "Redeemers". The latest one I have heard about is called "Family Church". They have the music technology, the big screens, video satellite churhes, etc etc. While it appears impossible to find a church that doesn't teach works salvation in my area, you can go enjoy some rock music and watch some video any time you want. Baptist churches are either taking baptist off the sign, or literally dying off, because your either take "baptist" and "fundamental" off the sign, or you shrink down to numbers that cannot pay the property taxes and light bill. I've been to a couple of them where it is just Bill, his wife, two kids, an 85 year old pastor, and the mother in law that are left. The problem with that church is that Bill's wife and mother in law are running the church, because the church will have nobody in it if the mother in law gets offended. I'm not exaggerating. I got yelled at by the mother in law in the bible study this Wednesday night because I mentioned that a woman should not be speaking and talking doctrine during church services, which is what their "sister" church did last Sunday night when we joined up with them. The woman literally yelled at me, telling me that it was fine because it was a praise service, and she was speaking at the music podium and not the pulpit. The three men kept silence in the church while two women were rebuking me. Can anyone one recognize a dead baptist church? Should I go to their sister church to see if the women rebuke men openly during Wed night bible study? If Baptist churches don't get more fundamental than they are, they are on their way out. Technology won't solve their problems. If they go full on technology as a means to attract people, they will no longer matter concerning the things of God. Use technology wisely. Get your name out with it. Let people know what you believe with it, but using it to attract people won't produce fruit for the kingdom of God, it will just attract shallow people, and when shallow people fill your church, you must know that you have become shallow, otherwise they would not be there. I use the Bible Gateway on my phone all the time, but couldn't imagine trying to give someone the gospel with it, therefor churches should not use electronic replacements. Show me a church that has replaced the paper bible with electronics, and I will show you a church that does not do soul winning.

While I believe that repentance is necessary for salvation (not going to discuss that in this section), I don't think that the problem of millennials leaving the church is a pastor thing, but Christians in general. We as Christians should be studying the Bible and know why we believe what we believe. It should be for every Christian, not just the pastor.

In trying to find a Baptist church to attend and go soul winning from, I made the mistake of telling a pastor that I didn’t believe that the Jews were God’s chosen people, and that we are. He told me that I shouldn’t attend his church because that was their big “thing”. Their soul winning program was him doing door hangers once a month with his kids. I also asked him if he believed that you have to repent of your sins to be saved. He said that he believed so. I asked him if he could show me from the scriptures, and he could not. He tried to find something, but ultimately said that he wasn’t sure why he believed it, but that he did. He was a Bible college graduate who was a youth pastor for several years, then was sent to this church as the pastor. I am just a 50 year old HVAC guy, but can show you from Genesis to Revelation why you can’t repent of your sins for salvation, and that the Jews are not God’s chosen people, and we are. When pastors cannot defend their beliefs from the scripture, and the focus of their church is preaching about the Christ rejecting Jews in Israel as if they are the biggest concern that we should have, mellenials or no, they are dying.

I don't agree. How can Muslims believe if they cannot hear the gospel? Our pastor visits India rom time to time.and to get a visa he was not allowed to preach outside the church. However, unbeknown to him the church had rigged up large loudspeakers outside the church to broadcast his message. Preachers in that country face 6 months in jail for preaching outside the church but the go to jail and when the come out they preach outsie again and then do another 6 months. The church is to spread the word, not to keep it to members. Luke 9:26

In our little country church, maybe we will just bring in our guard dogs.

Good for you Mike. "No Deacons" is always a plausible option, especially for small churches.

And so it goes and has gone that way for many years now. This is the reason that when and if Deacons are chosen they must be deeply spiritual men, well versed in Scripture and with a Godly understanding of what the office of Deacon consists of. Even more important is what the office does NOT consist of.

The clear initial problem here is that deacons ran the church. Deacons are there to assist the pastor, to take certain responsibilities off his hands so he can minister in prayer and the word-when deacons boards began to run things, that's when church leadership went awry.

My old church in San Diego, fortunately, hasn't gone through this, though I've seen they are starting to use some contemporary music, carefully recrafted to a more conservative sound. Unfortunately, this is often the first step down. Once the current pastor, who is holding things together, passes, the trip down will be much quicker.

I will ask our pastor who they used. A 14 year old boy runs all our video/facebook/live streaming/youtube live, website, etc.! So it can't be too hard.

We have a Facebook page that I post on a few times a week. Most of our members do not have Facebook pages, so it's hard to get followers. It is growing slowly, though. We don't have a website yet, but the tech guy in the church that founded ours has volunteered to create one for us. That's about it. I did start a Twitter account but don't use it. I know I should, though.

Sad article and testimonies. But it does go to show how each generation in a church - each family and individual - needs to be faithful and walk with the Lord today, not just rest where they or their church once stood. There is no coasting in the Christian life - not for an individual, and not for the church they are part of. Coasting is like sitting on the fence when temptation to compromise comes your way. I think it was my webpartner, Angela Trenholm, who once said, “The Devil owns the fence,” and I know the fence is greased! It is a slippery slope, for sure.

We have an excellent quality digital soundboard and make good CD copies, but our dream is to have a Website where we could post sermons and such that is password protected for just members. We have no one in our church with the technical skills to design a site though. Any suggestions on a good professional with pricing would be appreciated. I doubt we could ever think of live streaming. Our Pastor is not shy about preaching the whole counsel of God and some of his sermons would have protesters picketing our church or worse if he is speaking about Islam and other religions.

Our Sunday services are live on YouTube. We have a facebook page and a screen behind pastor with messages and reminders. I think it needs to be shut off during the sermon. I don't think it's needed either. All the news, etc. is in the paper bulletin. Thankfully, people viewing online can't see the screen from the lights hanging above. I'm also one who would prefer everyone use a paper Bible. No one is going to learn the order of books on an e-book. We have one lady who specifically uses an e-bible because she has very bad vision, which is fine. But teens and new believers need to learn the basic placings of the Books of the Bible. Which is not possible if all you have to do is enter the verse and it just pops up. But my pastor puts his sermons on a pad and if the pad's not working, he's lost. And we have to wait for it to load, etc. This is the first church where the preacher doesn't go from an actual book. He should print out his highlights and reference so he's not totally dependent on technology. Nothing better to hear when pastor says "please go to such and such" and you hear the ruffling of pages.:)

Thanks Sawthdiver. I have found that may times this verse is at the heart of the problem of people leaving our churches. I have found comfort in this very verse when things of this nature happen.

This is why they and everyone else leaves: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” - 1 John 2:19

I understand, the reason why the question was asked is because I visited about a hundred of churches last few years and this is the topic about millennial's that always seems to come up in our Baptist churches. Just discussing what seems like a majority of churches are asking.

Brother AdamL, I am glad that you chose to present your response. It is well presented; however, it appears to have one underlying assumption that is wrong in relation to my own response above. I myself would NOT limit my response above just unto the present generation. I would have given the same answer for any generation. In fact, I believe that it is the same problem that is reported throughout Scripture for multiple different generations of Israel in the Old Testament and for various believers in the New Testament. (Note: If you will take notice, you will find in my above response various allusions to the very teaching of God's Holy Word on the matter.) On the other hand, I would agree that the scenario which you present above represents a way of falsehood within the Independent Baptist movement. Certainly this way of falsehood should be rejected. I myself have rejected it and find it spiritually offensive. However, in my own ministry experience the "Millenials" (and, for that matter, older generations as well) that have fallen away from faithfulness have done so because they are instead pursuing video games, social media, money accumulation, personal recreation, and other things of the world, not because they could not acquire Biblical answers to their questions. (Note: Since you do not know me personally, I really cannot prove whether I am a "shallow" or a sound teacher and leader. I can only refer you to that which I have posted here on Online Baptist. I suppose that is the only evidence that I can provide to you for whether I am able to give genuine Biblical answers to genuine questions.)

Well said bro. Scott. I also have to wonder about how many of these have been under the influence of Easy Believism and a quick prayer to "Invite Jesus Into Your Heart".

The pervert is married with children and still took him less than a year in his role to start manipulating children. Sick. Romans 3:18 there is no fear of God before their eyes.