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  1. 13 points
    2bLikeJesus

    Rules Vs. Principles

    I was out soul winning, door knocking in the area when someone who answered the door stated "I have heard of your church, you guys are the one's with all those rules." I looked at him genuinely confused and said "we don't have ANY rules." He said, "then why do you guys dress so different, and you don't drink, go dancing, go to movie theaters, or party like normal folks, and you go to church like several times a week?" I told him it's because of a love for God and what he has done for us. We find principles in His word that indicates what would be most pleasing to Him and out of love we do all we can to please Him. You don't have to do ANY of those things to attend our church, that would make them rules that must be followed. You don't need to follow any of those things to be saved either and on your way to heaven. I then got the chance to explain a non-works salvation to him. A person who needs rules, doesn't understand principles. Galatians 5:18 (KJV) 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. If you are truly led of the Spirit, the Spirit will NEVER lead you to do anything that is contrary to God's will and Word, there is no need for the law. Rules are neccesary for a heart away from God. Galatians 3:19a (KJV) 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions 1 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV) 12 All things are lawful unto me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any [the Principle]. 1 Corinthians 10:23 (KJV) 23 All things are lawful for me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not [the Principle]. The law makes nothing perfect. Hebrews 7:19 (KJV) 19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. The law was not made for righteous men. 1 Timothy 1:8-10 (KJV) 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disOBedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Galatians 3:24 (KJV) 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. So many people, especially IFB's who have been raised since children in an IFB church, have no idea WHY we have the standards we do. Until they understand that a standard is simply a self-imposed boundary set to help us keep a conviction that was formed by understanding a principle from God's word. You first find a principle in God's word, and from that principle you form a conviction, and then a standard is set by yourself to help you keep that conviction. Because of this, some standards are entirely yours alone. For instance, I will not allow myself to own a boat. There is absolutely nothing wrong or sinful about boat ownership, but for me, outdoor recreation is a huge draw and I am weak enough to it ( "I will not be brought under the power of any"), that my ministry for God is hurt by it. Until people have standards put IN them by understanding the principles behind them, instead of ON them because "that's just the way we do things" they will never have them for their own and it is easy for them to backslide as soon as they are out of the house. Bro. Garry In His will. By His power. For His glory.
  2. 12 points
    DaveW

    Big Bible Colleges

    Since it appears that some here are searching for reasons to accuse me, I will explain my view on Big Bible colleges. I have started another thread so as not to pollute my Bible College thread. First - I think every church should, when they are able, have extra study available for members. If they are able to make it as in depth as an Institute or College course, then great. I also have no prOBlems with a correspondence style course supplied by someone else. Secondly, this is MY OPINION, and as such I will not condemn a man who went to or sends one of his people to a big Bible College. I also will not outright condemn those who run such colleges - they are trying to supply teaching that is not offered elsewhere. But I see no sense in sending away a growing enthusiastic Christian. Think about it - a young man gets saved in your church. The Lord convicts him in your church. The Lord teaches him in your church. Through the ministry of your church he grows to where the Lord calls him to preach - so you send him across the country to learn how to preach????? Doesn't make sense to me. Much better to join with solid local preachers and together teach these enthusiastic Christians and whilst learning their growth, energy, and enthusiasm can be used to exhort and encourage the church where the Lord saved them. (Note: reference to "your church" here means the church you attend). I understand that it is not possible for all men nor in all churches. But that is my view on big Bible Colleges. It is certainly not about being my own authority as some have suggested - it is about giving opportunity for people to grow where the Lord planted them.
  3. 12 points
    In that past we have had discussion where only certain members that wanted to can post in. We did this for an atheist one time, it was not ""freestyle" but was done in a debate style and one could post at his/her convenience. We had rules that the "debaters" had to follow and everyone followed the rules and it went very smoothly. Everyone could view the discussion. I guess it could be done again.
  4. 12 points
    In God's eyes, they are not married... Even if another state performed the ceremony. As to letting them join the Church, a definite no. Unless of course, they separate and repent of their wickedness.
  5. 11 points
    I agree fully with Alan and DaveW. The pastor is the place to go for this. Having said that, however, I will add this. Whenever error is spoken from the pulpit, whither it be a guest speaker or our own pastor, we have a teaching session at home. I set the family down in the living room after the service, get out our Bibles, and study out what was wrong. Even if the subject was correct, but scripture was incorrectly pulled from context and improperly twisted to back up correct doctrine, we point it out and address this at home. I do not allow scripture to be used dishonestly to preach honest truth. The well being of the church falls on the pastor's shoulders, but the well being of my family falls on my shoulders, not that of my pastor. I do not shirk that responsibility.
  6. 11 points
    ldonjohn

    My Testimony

    Afterwards I did not read the bible; I just went to church. Later, as a young adult, I began to have doubts about my salvation which eventually led to a life of uncertainty, fear, & misery. I doubted my salvation because I did not understand how God would save someone just for saying a prayer “in Jesus' name” and being baptized. I was confused about all the teaching I had heard growing up in a church. I was confused about God & the bible. I did not understand the meaning of “believing” in Jesus. I did not know what to believe or how to believe. One bible verse that I had trouble understanding was Romans 10:13. I would call on the name of the Lord many times, but could not find any assurance that He heard me. My confusion led me to question if any of it was true or if God even existed. My life was miserable. I was looking for evidence that would prove to me that the bible is true, that God exists, and that Jesus does really forgive sinners, but there was something missing, a missing link, and I did not know what it was. I needed something to convince me that it was all true. I talked to several Christians & asked a lot of questions, read several books about how to have assurance of salvation, and read several bible salvation tracts. I could not find any answers that convinced me of the truth about any of the teachings I had heard growing up in church. I did the things I heard at church that I thought were necessary to get God to save me like making a public confession of my sin, repenting of my sin, publicly confessing Jesus as my Lord & Savior, promising to follow Him the rest of my life, I taught a Sunday School class, drove the church bus, went to church 3 days a week, etc. etc. I tried to make myself have some sense of faith, I said the sinners' prayer over & over begging God to save me, and each time I would find relief from the doubts. But, then our pastor would say in a sermon that to be saved we must really mean business with God, and I would question myself as to whether I really did repent of all my sins, or did I really commit my life to Christ, or did I really believe in Jesus to save me, and the doubts would return. I could not find a lasting assurance of salvation, and I had no peace. I could not concentrate on my job or my family. I was obsessed with a dreadful fear of dying without ever knowing for sure if I had done the right things to get God to save me. One night, out of a sense of helplessness & desperation, I said a prayer to the God I wasn't sure existed. My prayer was, “God will you show me the truth about believing in Jesus?” Next, I did something I had never done outside of church; I found our family bible, sat down at my kitchen table, and opened the bible to the Book of John, the Gospel of John. I opened the bible to the Gospel of John because I had heard someone say that the Book of John was the best place to find out about Jesus. I did not know what I would find there but I was ready to accept whatever it was if it convinced me that it was real & the truth. As I started to read the Gospel of John I had no idea that my life was about to change forever and that I would soon have a peace that is impossible to explain to anyone who has never experienced that peace for themselves. Yes, I was desperate to know Jesus as my Savior. I thought I would never know, for sure, that I had found Him or that I had enough faith in Him, or that I had really believed in Him. I was confused about what it all meant, and just wasn't sure about any of it being real. But, the moment I began to read John 1:1 for some reason I was seeing the words of the bible in a different way. I remembered reading the Book of John in Sunday School as a kid where our teacher told us to memorize the first chapter, but it really meant nothing to me back then. But, that night, as I sat at my kitchen table reading that big family bible, the words came to life and something was telling me that I was reading the truth about Jesus. I realized that the missing link I referred earlier was the Holy Spirit showing me the truth that I so desperately needed. The Holy Spirit opened my blind spiritual eyes so that I could see & understand spiritual truth. That night I found the evidence, the the proof, that completely convinced me that the bible is the Truth, that God is real, and that Jesus does really forgive anyone who earnestly comes to Him for forgiveness. God Himself showed me that He is real. God saw that I was seeking Him in the way described in the following scripture. Jeremiah 29:13, “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.” (KJV) The Holy Spirit used the following scriptures and several other scriptures to convince me that Jesus is who He said He is, and that He was waiting for me to come to Him. John 5:39-40, Jesus said to the Pharisees “Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.(KJV) John 6:37,”All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”(KJV) John 6:44, “ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”(KJV) John 6:45, “ It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”(KJV) Romans 10:14, “How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?”(KJV) Revelations 3:20, “Behold I stand at t he door and knock, and if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him and will sup with him and he with me.”(KJV) That night, as I read the Gospel of John, the Holy Spirit opened my spiritually blind eyes for me and “I got it.” He showed me who Jesus is and what He did for me when He died on the cross to pay for my sins. The Holy Spirit completely convinced me that the Bible is the absolute truth, that God is real, and that Jesus is God who became a man so He could pay the penalty for my sins that I could never pay myself. God showed me how to “believe in Him” as He convinced me that all the things I had heard in church as a kid, and all that I was reading that night were His way of not only saving me from spending eternity in hell, but also is His way to change me now by giving me a new nature. Immediately I forgot about all the things I was doing to get God to save me as my complete trust & confidence literally fell upon Jesus. I wasn't thinking about how much faith I needed to call out to Him. I knew without a doubt that Jesus was waiting for me to come to Him, and I did. The moment the Holy Spirit convinced me & I “got it” was the moment I believed in Jesus. I saw that Romans 10:13 alone was just words without faith, but that together Romans 10:13-14 means that I believe in Jesus before I call on Him. I found myself talking to Jesus as though He was right there in the room with me. I was thanking Him for saving me and asking Him to change me His way, and that He did. That was almost 40 years ago and today I still have that same peace and assurance that He gave me then. I will use another scripture here although at that time I knew nothing about it but it helps to explain what actually happened to me that day: Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” “Not of works, lest any man should boast.” God gave me the right kind of faith to believe just like this verse says, it is a gift of God. The faith God gave me was focused on Jesus’ death on the cross, and also believing that Jesus will do what He said He will do in John 6:37, and that’s “saving faith.” The “wrong kind of faith” was focused on myself, on what “I was doing” to try to get God to save me. I did not find my answer from men. Only when I turned to God through reading His Word and by the convincing power of the Holy Spirit did I find the truth about “believing” in Jesus. IOW the Holy Spirit changed my mind & convinced me; He made it real to me; He removed all doubts from my mind, and He changed me from a doubting unbeliever into a born-again believer who has a total assurance of salvation and a lasting peace. Don
  7. 11 points
    At the moment there is no law saying a church must grant membership to any particular person. There are also no current laws that force a pastor to marry anyone. Our churches by-laws are clear with regards to the biblical requirements for membership and the discretion of the pastor to determine if those conditions are met. Similar is set forth regarding matters of marriage. If there comes a time when laws are enacted that would force such, our church and pastor has already determined to stand in accord with Scripture, even if that means losing State sanction to "legally" marry folks. The same is true regarding the issue of weddings held at the church. Having already established our position in these areas on the grounds of Scripture, we don't worry about what will come to pass for we are prepared. Will the government do more to us than was done to Paul? If God's grace was sufficient for Paul in all things and he was able to be content in all things, surely we can face what the future holds.
  8. 11 points
    We had a first time visitor come forward at the invitation to be saved...and then his wife came forward about 30 seconds later...then one by one both his two teenage kids. The entire family got saved today! Now THAT was the first grand slam this season! Bro. Garry
  9. 11 points
    Bro K

    Salvation

    After many years of people praying for him; my brother-iin-law accepted Christ as his Savior last night!!!!
  10. 10 points
    Alan

    Patriotism

    Brethren, Every once in a while I see numerous articles that only present one side of the Vietnam War. During that time of the Vietnam War the newspapers, liberals, the Hollywood crowd and the public in general were feed a continual stream of anti-American ideals: especially patriotism. My father taught me one good thing and that was to love our country. America, in spite of all the evil, corrupt politicians, and other forms of corruption, is still the best country on the face of this planet for Democracy, Individual Freedom, and Religious Freedom. It saddens me tremendously to witness the continual downgrade of America and the ideals why we fought the Vietnam War. While I was growing up (in the house of an agnostic and church hating father), I was taught, (rightly so), the values of America, Democracy, Patriotism, and the evils of Communism, Socialism, Fascism, and liberals. I have not changed a whit from my father's correct moral teachings. While growing up during the Vietnam War every day, (like our day and age), I read the supposedly vile actions of the U.S. Military as brought forth by Hollywood actors, liberal Religious figureheads, and the liberal, atheistic, and propaganda written by the communist leaning press. I read all about the evil actions of the military killing defenseless civilians by our Air Force and Army. And, I read all of the stories of how the Vietnam veterans were dope fiends, anti-military, and crazy in the head: remember Rambo? When was the last time that you heard a story in the press that told the public of the brave, sacrificial, and patriotic deeds of the vast majority of the men in uniform during the Vietnam War? Because of the vicious lies of the press, the traitorous acts of the Hollywood stars, the communist inspired Vietnam War demonstrations,and the unpatriotic acts of the ungodly religious crowd, our cowardly politicians gave in and did not allow the military to win the Vietnam War. Vietnam was the first war America lost. Now, South Vietnam is communist. Laos, which I was also indirectly involved, also was lost to the enemy. The enemy of America, and the nation of Israel, during that age, is Fascist (formally Communist), Russia and her allies. Vietnam was just a pawn that Russia used to obtain her goals. In spite of all the vicious verbal attacks, and numerous speeches, hippies, men rushing to Canada to avoid the draft, and others acts of civil disobedience, I decided to volunteer for military service (the US Air Force), to join the war. During the Vietnam War I volunteered and was not drafted. I found out by personal experience that the innocent civilians were not so innocent, the Hollywood actors were traitors, the liberal press was lying and the religious figureheads were lost men seeking fame and fortune. The Vietnam War, started by President Kennedy, was initially a war against communism. Due to communist lies the American public was misled. Even to this day you cannot hardly find an article written against communism. But, you can find plenty of articles against the war and downgrading the men who bravely, and patriotically, fought against the communist North Vietnamese and their Russian allies. I am a proud American Vietnam Veteran. I am a proud verbal defender of America and its ideals of Freedom. And I have come to realize that there is a concerted effort by the enemies of Freedom to downgrade America and the nation of Israel. I hope that there are other patriotic freedom loving Americans who remain faithful to these ideals of freedom in the day ahead in spite of this concerted effort to bash America and Israel through misleading articles. Alan
  11. 10 points
    Dear brothers and sisters in Christ: I apologize for my lengthy absence from Online Baptist. The past year has been quite difficult and I'd not had the energy to spend the time here I'd hoped. As the Lord permitted, I was given strength to write articles for a Christian publication ("Rapture Ready") for over the last 2-3 years, and spent what energy I had on that. I also have been away so long I had no idea where to post this, nor under what topic. So please forgive me if I erred. My photo from before has disappeared as well, and I likely didn't upload a replacement properly either. The news I have to share today is that the time has come not to say "good-bye", but to say: "We'll meet in heaven." I have stage four cancer. I'm not going to pursue chemo nor radiation (etc.), but have instead signed on for Hospice. The cancer has spread to lymph nodes and bone (likely other places as well). At least one tumor has also spread to to local areas (invasively) and is inoperable. It would only prolong the suffering to try any attempts at chemo (etc.) at this point. It's urethral cancer, which is not only rare, but also extremely aggressive. So there isn't much time left. No doctor can give an exact time-line. But the oncologist said 5 months would be the absolute maximum. Honestly? I can't see it being more than a month, maybe two at most (just my opinion - going on how miserable I am and how quickly it's spreading and tumors are enlarging and manifesting here and there). But the Lord alone knows. His will be done. I do so appreciate prayer. However, I humbly request that none would pray for healing; but instead pray "God's will be done". And if you would, please pray for pain relief and continual relief of pain. I also request that you'd pray for the Lord's comfort for my family and dearest friends during this time. Very much appreciated. Although I'm saddened that this is hard for my parents, children, grandchildren, and dear friends; I think most of them understand that I'm not (personally) sad about the prognosis. As most know, I've had primary progressive MS, spinal cord disease (syringomyelia) and myriad other health issues for over a decade. Life has been an "existence" for many years. One I appreciated still, but was often very painful and difficult. I've been house-bound and bed-bound for several years now. I am looking forward to a release from the pain and suffering in this life, and anticipating the fulfillment of promises God has made in His word for eternity to come for those who've trusted and believed on Jesus for salvation. Please don't pity me in the least. "...I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (2 Tim.1:12). God has given me the "peace that passeth understanding" (Phil.4:7) and keeps my heart and mind through Christ Jesus. I also have the firm comfort and assurance of the pre-trib rapture, wherein all church/grace-age believers will meet the Lord in the air. The "dead in Christ shall rise first", then those who are "alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." The Lord will soon give church/grace-age believers incorruptible bodies just like Jesus own glorified body (1 John 3:2; Phil.3:20-21; 1 Cor.15:49-53; 1 Thes.4:13-18; et al) at the rapture. While some brethren here may disagree with this doctrine, I am fully convinced of the scriptural surety that the rapture is indeed pre-tribulational. And that Jesus has promised to deliver us from the wrath to come (1 Thes.1:10, 5:1-9; Rom.5:9). So also do I know that scripture proves the rapture to be imminent (nothing need proceed the timing). However, I also believe the rapture is now much more than imminent, but also must soon occur, as much of end time Bible prophecy is aligned in stunning accuracy. I would never dare set date. Yet we are given to know and discern the season which we are now in. Brethren and sisters, I do believe that the rapture is so near that should I physically die first, I do believe all in Christ will soon be raptured and we will all meet together in the air. I very much appreciate the fellowship and past discussion here on OB. So many dear brethren and sisters have touched my life, edified me, and I count you all a blessing. Continue on serving the Lord, knowing that our labor is not in vain in the Lord, and that His word does not return void. Much love, See you soon. Maranatha!!!
  12. 10 points
    HappyChristian

    Starting on a new adventure

    I think pretty much everybody knows that we moved to the west coast almost 2 years ago (well, if you didn't know before, you do now ). We moved out here to be a help to my mother, who lost my dad 5 years ago last month. The entire family wanted her to keep the acreage she and my dad had, but the upkeep was just becoming too much for her. Before my dad passed, my hubs spent a good bit of time in prayer and the Lord confirmed that we were to move out here. We just didn't know the "when." "When" came in summer of 2015. My hubs has been able to do the upkeep on the property, enjoying every minute he's able to spend outside. My mother, uncle and siblings are very grateful for the work he's done. When we moved up here, we knew we would be attending the church of which my mother was a member. The pastor had gone to Glory about a year and a half after my dad. There were problems that arose because of some power playing. Long story, don't need or want to go into it. Suffice to say that, because of the issues, most of the men left, leaving the pastor's wife virtually in charge (ostensibly a congregation-run church, which is why I used the word virtually). We believed that God wanted to use us in this church, as the church looked for a pastor. Things were wonderful for a while; visiting men filled the pulpit, etc. There were things that weren't being done right, but without a pastor, and now with only two men (my hubs and another man) as members, there wasn't a whole lot that could be done. So we patiently waited. Long story short, there was just too much wrong to continue attending. My hubs tried to deal with some things (among them, folks allowing the world to come into the church and not seeming to think any wrong about it) and was resoundly rejected by the other male member, the pastor's wife (the de facto pastor), and the main pulpit fill to whom he was looking for help in the situation. And so we had to leave. NOT because my hubs didn't get his way. But because God's Word was basically cast aside in favor of compromise with the world - in a few areas. And so the question was where to go? We knew this didn't take God by surprise and He had something planned. My hubs was even praying about starting a church. But interestingly enough, one Sunday we were traveling to a town closer to home than the one in which that church was when we saw a church sign for a Baptist Church. Even though we had not left the other church yet, we were almost certain it would come to that, so we looked into the church. Upshot is that the Sunday after we left the other church, we visited the one for which we saw the sign. The people were friendly. There is no pastor there, either, but the pulpit supply is taken care of by the pastor who founded the church - he has three of his men on a rotating basis come to preach. And that first Sunday was like balm to our spirits! We had spent so much time having to hear Bible correctors, "preaching" that was actually teaching (don't get us wrong - we love teaching as well...but we needed some PREACHING!), we just drank it in! And so we have stayed. We joined the church and have become active. The church basically began 7 years ago. The first pastor left almost 5 years ago. And when he left, there were some things in a mess (the finances...basically straightened out now, thankfully). There are only a handful of members, but we marvel at their steadfastness and their trust that God will bring them a pastor. There is no outreach, and so there has been no physical growth. That is probably a good thing, because there are some things that not having a pastor have brought about that aren't so good. But - Randy (my hubs, for those who don't know) offered to teach a soulwinning class so that those who aren't familiar with it can learn, and those who are can refresh. The members were thrilled! A number of things happened once the classes began, not the least of which was my hubs' almost dying and spending a week in the hospital, with over 2 weeks recuperating time. But the classes have continued, and the members are enjoying the memorization he's having us do (verses as well as books of the Bible), quizzes that he gives, Bible drills, etc. And he's going step-by-step through the visitation process. Next week begins the practice. I have been given the responsibility of the ladies' meetings. We meet monthly for lunch, and I was thrilled at the first lunch that they actually spent some time in the Word (the previous church ladies met monthly, but certainly didn't look into the Word)! Imagine a church group actually looking into scripture together! (a little sarcasm there...) Anyway, I was given the privilege of presenting the devotions in January, and they asked me to take it over. After having been so involved in our church in IN, and then coming here to the first church and not being able to do anything, this is certainly a breath of fresh air. My mom has been chosen, by member vote, to be assistant treasurer. She is doing all the work, but doesn't sign any checks (about which we are happy). She is happy, too, because at the other church, they used a non-member...yes, you read that right. Mom didn't necessarily want the responsibility, but she wasn't happy that nobody even mentioned the need in order to give anyone who was a member the opportunity to volunteer; they just had a non-member do it. Anyway... On top of the soulwinning class, my hubs will begin in April teaching Sunday School and preaching Sunday morning, every other week. The members have set up a pulpit committee and have gotten serious about finding a pastor (I think they just needed someone THERE to encourage them). They have made it clear that they are interested in my hubs becoming the pastor. The church constitution states that the candidate must preach twice, at least. So they will hear him preach in April (he's not a candidate yet, but I think they'll know after they hear him whether or not they want to pursue him). I would appreciate prayer (yes, I'm going to bring this book to a close) that God will lead and direct exactly how He wants this to go. And that all egos, personalities, etc, are left out of it. I posted this here, because I don't want this to be on the public pages since it's not a done deal.
  13. 10 points
    Alan

    Scientific Facts in the Bible.

    The Ordinances of Heaven Job 38:33, “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? An ordinance is an established law or rule. Astronomer and mathematician, Johannes Kepler 1571-1630, verified that the sun and the planets are governed by scientific laws, or ordinances. Johannes Kepler was a devout Christian. Kepler believed that God created the universe as the Bible says He did. Psalm 119: 90 & 91, “Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.” All of the ordinances of the physical universe were established by God. The ordinances of heaven include: the revolution of the earth the planets, the solar system, the revolution of the galaxy, and gravity. These ordinances were not understood throughout the centuries until scientists verified the ordinances of the solar system. Johannes Kepler, and other scientists, has verified that the universe and all biological life is based on scientific fact. Evolution is based on randomness not verifiable scientific fact. Jeremiah 31: 35-37, “Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.” God established the ordinances of heaven, the physical universe, in Genesis chapter 1. These ordinances will continue until He creates the new heaven and the new earth: Isaiah 66: 22; 2 Peter 3:10-13 and Revelation 21:1
  14. 10 points
    The teaching to come out from among them means to separate. For you to continue as a member of the RCC and try to obtain membership in a Baptist church at the same time brings up several issues. First, either you have not told this Baptist pastor that you intend to retain your membership in the RCC, or, if you have told him, he doesn't have the discernment he needs. Second, RCC doctrine is diametrically opposed to traditional (biblical) Baptist beliefs, so for you to desire to retain membership in the RCC and be a member of a Baptist church, attending both services shows a lack of discernment and biblical knowledge on your part. There are verses before "come out from among them"...2 Corinthians 6 is quite clear. Verses 14-17 state: "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing..." The RCC is unrighteous. It is built on idolatry. There is no concord (agreement) between Christ and the RCC. You will never grow in Christ if you spend time attending RCC services thinking you are attending a church that honors God.
  15. 10 points
    Salyan

    MacArthur

    You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism. It often seems to become a point of pride - "see how much more study/learning I have done" or "see how much more I've thought about it than all you peons". Your statement above about 'shallow thinkers' really does reflect this observation, as it displays this as a point of pride in your life (you obviously think that you are a much deeper thinker than anyone who rejects MacArthur or Calvinism). Oh, and I am going to answer a question posed above. You asked if I considered Spurgeon to preach a damnable heresy, and said that if I said yes, I'd condemn one of the greatest preachers of the Western world (thus attempting to negate my statement by the supposed position of the man). I haven't studied Spurgeon much, so I really can't speak to what he did or did not preach. However, if he did teach the 'doctrines of grace' (irresistible grace, total depravity, unconditional election, etc.), than yes, he did preach damnable heresy. And you know what? If he preached such heresy, then perhaps he was not one of the 'greatest preachers of the Western world'. Because the popularity of a man does not define the truth of his teaching. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1:8 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. James 2:1 For their is no respect of persons with God. Romans 2:11
  16. 10 points
    The Mod Room, nice ring. You see, with a reduction of # of mods a while back, Bro. Matt moved us from a shack to a closet. However, due to Bro. Mike and myself taking so much space that we almost squeezed HC out of the closet and poor little Salyan was almost imbedded into the door, he at least relented and gave us a whole room. But, back on track with the intended subject: There has been discussion back in the mod room concerning recent contention and disturbances It was decided that the lack of warning points (or lack of teeth behind them) has resulted in boundaries being pushed (shoved, or terrorized) in a manner like unto petulant school kids. I offered to be the heavy here -- soooooooo: If someone lays down 145 rules specifying do and don't pertaining to the established do and don't list with a do and don't clarification list --- someone (or ones) will seek to defend themselves with "no subpoint of any point of any subsection of any section of any rule written says ...." The mods may not be able to articulate why your activity seems to be in a violation of the spirit of fellowship, discussion and even disagreement between basically like minded believers --- but we can generally recognize it. If someone's activity, perceived demeanor and/or rhetorical pattern strikes the mods as going beyond defense (or clarification) of a stance that is contrary to the general stance of the main body of OB or it's staff, don't balk and squawk when you get a warning point. Does this mean everything that runs contrary to the perceived stand of the OB body and/or staff is taboo --- ABSOLUTELY NOT! However, let's face it; there have been some who have been given much space to let us know what they believe, why and how they tick but have taken their bone and gnawed on it in every thread that they could worm it into (and before anyone gets all bowed up, I'm referring to over a year ago). If we feel your activity is actively "promoting" Calvanism, Preterism, alcohol, etc you might find attention from staff. Again, does that mean if you don't fit the "checklist" keep your mouth shut? No. Keep in mind where you are (Bro Matt's IFB living room). Yes.,there will always be someone who disagrees with who was "gotten on to" and who was not. Just me personally (different mods are different - kinda like "real" people, eh?), I may not respond to your complaint (just chalk it up to years of dealing with drunks, juvenile delinquents of delinquent parents and the ever present drama queens and kings). As always, you can appeal all decisions to Bro Matt. Do I expect everyone to always keep emotions in check? No, it would help but isn't realistic -- even the mods have been known to not back away from the keyboard and let feelings run the fingers. (Compiled in a calm fashion with a body temp of 45F and sent from my laptop running off my phone hotspot at a Jr Hi football game 105 miles from home)
  17. 10 points
    Ukulelemike

    Letter from Church

  18. 10 points
    Standing Firm In Christ

    A Rose Has Faded

    A Rose Has Faded by Ronald W ROBey ~In Loving Memory: August 13, 1926 - July 10, 2014~ A rose has faded in this garden called Earth But continues to flourish because of new birth Her life was a testimony of her love for the Lord She wanted all to know the truth in His Word. If mother could speak to all of us today I'm sure she'd have this simple message to say Don't weep for me, as I no longer feel pain Please trust Jesus Christ so I'll see you again.
  19. 10 points
    Moved_On

    For Soulwinners Only

    If you’re a soulwinner, I’d like to give you an honest thank you. When you knock on someone’s door or strike up a conversation with the intent to witness them, you never know what circumstances have been taking place in that person’s life leading up to that moment. In the early 90s, a soulwinner knocked on my door. He witnessed to a visiting friend for 20 minutes before I came out to see what was going on (since I was cooking a meal). When I was done eating I went out to speak with him and he started on the “Romans Road” with me. I was a religious lost guy and was difficult for him in some ways. I couldn’t relate to this 19 year old “geeky Bible guy” in any way. But he was an obedient witness and stayed with me. At that time in his life, he was specifically praying for “fruit that remains.” After 40 minutes or so, I bowed my head and asked the Lord Jesus Christ to save my soul. I’ve been a Christian for 20 years now and I have a family that I’m raising for Christ. That soulwinner is far from a geek and is among the best friends I’ve ever had and he’s always a phone call away. The town I grew up in was a stronghold of Catholicism and I never had a real friend up to that point in my life. I look back now and can see how God was preparing me months and years ahead of that meeting with a soulwinner. I left out a lot of detail; I could go on and on. I just wanted to let the soulwinners here know that I’m grateful for your labor in Christ. I’m grateful for all the doors you’ve had slammed in your face, grateful for your perseverance while facing opposition of all kinds, grateful that you’re doing something that takes character, grateful that you’re not on your boat fishing when it’s time to “go ye therefore.” I’m grateful more than you can really understand. So thanks again.
  20. 10 points
    No Nicolaitans

    Hypocrites

    So I was wondering... My understanding is that both UCLA and Duke universities have played the Muslim call to prayer publicly on their campuses...so...where is the outcry and the outrage from the atheists, ACLU, Freedom from Religion Foundation, et al. Seems to me that non-muslims were forced to listen to this "call to prayer". Isn't that right up the ACLU's alley...fighting against "forcing" your religion on others? These anti-religion folks jump at the chance to attack Christianity; however, when it comes to standing against a religion that might cut their heads off...they're amazingly quiet and OBligatory. So...the prOBlem isn't religion; it's Christianity (as we already know). Now that my friend is...hypocrisy.
  21. 10 points
    Pastor Scott Markle

    Concerning Daniel 9:24-27

    (Note: This posting is somewhat lengthy; however, those who generally follow my posts will not find this to be much of a surprise.) Concerning Daniel 9:24-27 – As the context of Daniel 9 reveals, this prophetic utterance was delivered unto Daniel, who had been confessing the sins of his people Israel and praying for the Lord’s mercy upon his people Israel. Indeed, when the angel Gabriel delivered this prophetic utterance unto Daniel, he specifically indicated that the focus of its revelation concerned Daniel’s people Israel and Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem, as per the opening line of verse 24 – “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy [that is – Daniel’s] people and upon thy [that is – Daniel’s] holy city [Jerusalem].” Furthermore, the angel revealed that these “seventy weeks” were determined by the Lord God upon Daniel’s people, the Israelites, and upon Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem, for a six-fold purpose as signaled by the six infinitive phrases that complete verse 24. This six-fold purpose of the Lord our God concerning Daniel’s people, the Israelites, and Daniel’s holy city, Jerusalem, are as follows: 1. “To finish the transgression” – Herein the word “transgression” is singular, indicating that it refers unto the entire rebellion of the Israelites against the Lord their God as a single unit of sinful fault. Indeed, the Hebrew word that is translated by the English word “transgression” indicates a breaking away (or, departure) from a relationship or covenant with another. Thus these “seventy weeks” are determined by the Lord God in order to bring about a completion to the sinful departure of the Israelites away from Him. As such, we could expect that after these “seventy weeks” are concluded, the Israelites will never again depart from the Lord. 2. “To make an end of sins” – Herein the word “sins” is plural, indicating that it refers unto the individual activities of sin that the Israelites might commit against the Lord their God. Thus these “seventy weeks” are determined by the Lord God in order to bring about a completion to the sinful activities of the Israelites against Him. As such, we could expect that after these “seventy weeks “ are concluded, the Israelites will never again commit sins against the Lord. 3. “To make reconciliation for iniquity” – Herein the word “reconciliation” indicates the ideas of atonement and forgiveness and of reconciliation thereby. Thus these “seventy weeks” are determined by the Lord God in order to bring about His forgiveness upon the Israelites for their sinful departure from Him and for their sinful activities against Him, and to bring about thereby the reconciliation of the Israelites unto Himself and unto His blessed fellowship. 4. “To bring in everlasting righteousness” – Herein the phrase “everlasting righteousness” reveals the spiritual condition into which the Lord God intends to bring the Israelites through His work of reconciliation. He intends to bring them into a spiritual condition of “everlasting righteousness,” not into a condition of righteousness from which they might again fall, but into a condition of righteousness from which they will never fall again. Indeed, this is the spiritual condition into which the Lord God will bring the Israelites at the completion of these “seventy weeks.” 5. “To seal up the vision and prophecy” – This phrase appears to indicate that all of the Lord’s prophetic utterances concerning the Israelites (especially concerning His judgments upon the Israelites) will be brought to their conclusion through the completion of these “seventy weeks.” 6. “To anoint the most Holy” – Herein the phrase “the most Holy” refers to the Most Holy One, the promised Messiah of Israel. According to the New Testament Scriptures, we learn that this Most Holy One, that the Messiah, is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Thus these “seventy weeks” are determined by the Lord God in order to bring about the literal anointing of the Lord Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords over all the earth. As such, we could expect that the literal return of our Lord Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords (See Revelation 19) will occur at the completion of these “seventy weeks.” Now, in this context the phrase “seventy weeks” may be literally understood as “seventy sevens,” wherein the English word “weeks” is employed for the idea of “sevens.” The reason that the English word “weeks” is so employed is because a week is the most natural grouping of seven when we encounter the element of time sequences. However, the Hebrew idea of “sevens” is not limited only to a group of seven days, but can refer to any grouping of sevens within the sequence of time. With this understanding in mind, we move to verse 25, wherein greater detail is revealed concerning the first sixty-nine of these “seventy weeks” (or, seventy sevens). The opening portion of verse 25 reveals that the first sixty-nine of these “seventy weeks” will encompass the time period “from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince.” Thus these first sixty-nine sevens will begin with “the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem” after their seventy years of captivity by the hand of the Babylonians (See Ezra & Nehemiah). Thus also these first sixty-nine sevens will conclude with the coming of “the Messiah the Prince.” Now, the distance of time between these events are known by historical record to be greater than a period of sixty-nine literal weeks. Rather, we understand by the historical record that the distance of time between these events encompassed a multitude of years (indeed, 483 years). Therefore, we are brought to understand that the “seventy sevens” of this context are a reference unto seventy groupings of seven years each. Now, the report of verse 25 is not presented with a simple designation of threescore (sixty) and nine “weeks” (sevens), but with the dividing of two parts, the first being “seven weeks” (seven sevens) and the second being “threescore and two weeks” (sixty-two sevens). This seems to indicate that something of significance will also occur at the completion of the first “seven weeks” (or, forty-nine years) of these sixty-nine weeks (sevens). Even so, the closing line of verse 25 appears to reveal what this “thing” of significance is – “The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.” Since verse 25 has recorded the beginning and the ending for the first sixty-nine “weeks” of the “seventy weeks,” we would now logically expect verse 26 to report the events of the seventieth and final “week” of these “seventy weeks.” Indeed, human logic would move us to expect that the seventieth and final “week” of these “seventy weeks” would follow immediately after the first sixty-nine “weeks” are completed (since the number seventy does follow immediately after the number sixty-nine). However, this seventieth and final “week” of these “seventy weeks” is not actually and specifically mentioned until verse 27. Rather, verse 26 gives a report concerning events that occur “after” the “threescore and two weeks” (after the first sixty-nine “weeks”) without making any specific reference to the seventieth and final week. What then are these events that occur after the first sixty-nine “weeks” (483 years), without any specific indication that they fall in the seventieth and final “week” (7 years)? Verse 26 appears to give report concerning three things, saying, “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.” Herein the preposition “after” does not indicate that these things occur at the end of the first sixty-nine “weeks” (483 years), but indicates that these things occur after the first sixty-nine “weeks” (483 years) are already concluded. Furthermore, it is worthy of notice that verse 25 did not specifically state that the first sixty-nine “weeks” would conclude with the cutting off of the Messiah the Prince. Rather, verse 25 simply indicated that the first sixty-nine “weeks” would extend “unto the Messiah the Prince” (and thereby conclude), without specifying the activity of the Messiah the Prince to which it was referring. (Personally, I believe that verse 25 is referring to the beginning of our Lord Jesus Christ’s earthly ministry as initiated by His baptism.) So then, what are the three things which verse 26 indicates occur after the conclusion of the first sixty-nine “weeks” (483 years)? 1. The Messiah will be cut off in death, not for His own sake, but for the sake of others. According to the New Testament Scriptures, this would be a prophetically reference unto the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus Christ upon the cross. 2. “The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city [that is – Daniel’s holy city, Jersusalem, as per the contextual statement with which verse 24 began] and the sanctuary [that is – the temple in Jerusalem].” Now, in this statement there are two elements of information that are worthy of notice in relation to the context. The first of these elements of information is that there is “a prince that shall come” unto the Israelites and unto the city of Jerusalem who is not referenced as their Messiah. The second of these elements of information is that this “prince that shall come” is not the one himself who comes against Jerusalem in the event of verse 26 to destroy the city and the sanctuary (temple) therein. Rather, it is the people of which he will be a part that come against Jerusalem in the event of verse 26 to destroy the city and the sanctuary (temple) therein. 3. “The end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.” This statement appears to indicate that the destroying of the city Jerusalem and of the temple in Jerusalem will end with utter desolation upon the Israelites, and that the Israelites and the city of Jerusalem will continue to suffer ongoing desolations thereafter. Finally, with verse 27 we come to the concluding verse of this prophetic utterance and to the specific reference unto the seventieth and final “week” (7 years) of these “seventy weeks.” The opening line of this verse indicates that some “he” will “confirm” some “covenant with many” (apparently among the Israelites, since that is the focus of this prophetic utterance as per the opening statement of verse 24). In fact, this “he” will “confirm” this “covenant” with these Israelites for a period of “one week” (that is – a period of one seven, or of seven years). Then this verse indicates that in the middle of this seven year period (after 3.5 years), this “he” will “cause the sacrifice and OBlation” of the Israelites “to cease” (apparently ending his seven year “covenant” with the Israelites). Finally, this verse indicates that this “he” will bring a form of desolation upon the Israelites and the city of Jerusalem, and that this “he” will do so for the purpose of “the overspreading of abominations” upon the Israelites and the city of Jerusalem. Indeed, this verse indicates that this desolation will continue upon the Israelites and the city of Jerusalem “until the consummation” (until the completion) of the seventieth “week,” and thereby of the “seventy weeks.” So then, who is this “he” of verse 27? Grammatically, the closest antecedent to this pronoun in the context is “the prince that shall come” who was mentioned in verse 26. Furthermore, in the context there is no other reference to “the prince that shall come” of verse 26 in order to explain who he is and why he matters and was mentioned at all in verse 26. As such, I would contend according to these principles of grammar and context that the “he” of verse 27 is “the prince that shall come” of verse 26. Now, it is again worthy of note that this “prince” is not referenced in verse 26 as being the Messiah, but that he is in some way related to the people who would destroy the city of Jerusalem and the sanctuary (temple) therein in the destroying event that is prophesied in verse 26. In conclusion, let us consider the grammatical and contextual gap that is presented in this passage between the conclusion of the sixty-nine “weeks” and the beginning of the seventieth “week.” Verse 25 clearly speaks concerning the beginning and conclusion of the first sixty-nine “weeks,” and verse 27 clearly speaks concerning the beginning of the seventieth “week.” However, the events of verse 26 are presented between these other two records. Indeed, as we have already noted, verse 26 does specifically indicate that the events which it records occur after the sixty-nine “weeks.” Yet verse 26 makes no specific reference whatsoever to the seventieth “week.” Furthermore, verse 27 specifically makes reference to the beginning of the seventieth week, and then reports concerning events that will proceed from that point. Yet verse 27 does not specifically indicate that the events which are recorded in verse 26 are included in that seventieth “week.” As such, we may understand from the flow of the grammar and the context that there is some form of gap in time between the first sixty-nine “weeks” (483 years) as recorded in verse 25 and the seventieth and final “week” (7 years) as recorded in verse 27, and that the events of verse 26 will fall within that gap in time.
  22. 10 points
    A few days ago a couple of people stopped by the church on their way to work. They had to walk and it was very hot even at that time of morning. They had run out of water in the one water bottle they had and just wanted to refill it with cold water. I let them refill it it from the jug in the refrigerator and then gave them some money. It wasn't a lot of money, but it was enough for them to buy another jug of water and lunch for the two of them. Both the man and woman were wearing dirty clothes and had betel nut (type of chewing tOBacco) stained teeth and mouths, I could have very easily just told them I had no cold water available and not given them any money since they didn't ask for any(and assuming they might just spend it on more betel nut at the shop at the end of the block). But what kind of testimony would that have been? How would I have shown them the love of God by ignoring them? Will they ever return to the church for a service because I showed kindness? I have no idea. Would God have punished me if I had ignored them? Will God bless me for helping them? Again I don't know, and it really doesn't matter. We shouldn't do something because we expect to be blessed if we do it or fear punishment if we don't. We should do it because it's right. PrOBably nothing more will happen than peace in your heart for doing the right thing, but that should be enough. As Christians we should have a deep desire to help those who are struggling. It should be second nature. We shouldn't have to be commanded to do every little thing, and especially not something so basic like helping widows, orphans, the homeless, etc... Although I think God has made it abundantly clear over and over again throughout the Bible that we should do these things. God doesn't change. If he was serious about helping widows and orphans in the OT, he is still serious about it today.
  23. 10 points
  24. 10 points
    DaveW

    Baptist?

    Personally, I have just about had enough. Being a Baptist doesn't make you saved, nor does it automatically make you 100% right doctrinally. But Baptist have traditional positions on doctrines. Yes, I used that word - traditional. But that doesn't make those positions wrong. Baptists are traditionally not Calvinistic. Baptists are traditionally premillenial. Baptists traditionally hold to a literal reading of God's Word. Baptists traditionally use the KJV in English speaking nations. Baptists traditionally do not hold to double inspiration. Baptists traditionally are not hyper dispensational. I am sure there are other things that Baptists traditionally hold to that do not come quickly to mind at this moment. Traditional they may be, but these positions endure mainly because they are Biblical. I am disgusted that there are so many presently allowed to dwell not only on this site, but particularly within the IFB section, when they defy the traditional, biblical models. I fully expect to viciously attacked over this post, but you will have noticed that I am posting less and less anyway, so I don't care. This needs to be said. And no, I will not nominate those to whom I am referring - everyone knows who they are, including themselves. Finally, there is no point discussing with these people, for ridicule and verbal Belittlement is what results. Time and again discussion has degenerated in this manner due to an unwillingness to discuss and a propensity to push their own positions. And these positions are not Baptist no matter how much they twist history. And they are not Bible no matter how much they twist Scripture. Unlike a previous thread of mine, I will not hide this one no matter how much abuse is directed at me. I will leave any decision on that to the mods. I don't even care if the mods immediately lock, hide, or delete this as soon as it is posted. I have said my piece.
  25. 10 points
    DaveW

    Taught By Whom?

    I get sick of people who revert their argument to "you were obviously taught that" whenever someone disagrees with them. The claim of Darby gets thrown around here from time to time, as does the Claim of Ruckman, or Calvin. Now there is nothing wrong with pointing out an alignment of teaching, but using it as an argument in itself is not valid. For myself, I never went to a big Bible college anywhere, and all my instructors were and are working Pastors, not classroom intellectuals. I never heard of Ruckman until after I was in the ministry. I never heard of Darby until I joined this site. I never knew anything about Scofield for many years, apart from that his name was on a Bible. I didn't know much about Spurgeon apart from reading some of his sermons. For many years due to having a full time job and trying to pastor as well as having a young family my preaching study was entirely from the Bible, for the pure reason that I did not have the time to consult commentaries or other pastors. If I didn't understand something, I wouldn't preach it - even at times saying to the people that I don't understand the verses so we would just miss them until I did. It was during those years that I formed much of my doctrinal stand. As a result my position on most things I have commented on here is the result of my own personal study of God's Word, and is not influenced by "darcalruckin" or anyone else. There are things I don't understand and that I therefore don't engage with here. But when I do comment it is because I have seen something in a Bible passage that disagrees with what someone here has said - not because I read it in some commentary. So there is enough of my history to show that I do not follow after any man. If what I teach aligns with a man, then maybe in that item he also is Biblical, in spite of whatever else that man may teach. And, to finish, I am just a man. What I believe to be Biblical will be influenced by all sorts of things. I hope that if something I currently stand on is not Biblical that I can learn. But throwing unfounded accusations will not make me listen to you. Show me from the Bible - but don't expect me to blindly follow what you say either. I will check it against the Bible, and if it doesn't fit, I will throw it away with the rest of the rubbish. Yours sincerely, Dave.
  26. 10 points
    Left the Bldg

    Gift Of Tongues

    I guess I realized that not everything we experience is from God. So rather than base my belief on that experience, I put my belief in what the Bible says about it.
  27. 9 points
    DaveW

    Missionaries

    My church has been blessed lately with visits from missionaries that we support. Where we are, it is unusual for people to stop by - Perth is not really on the way anywhere, so you really have to be going TO Perth. And that is Expensive! As a result we don't get visits from missionaries very often. So far this year - yes 2018 - we have had two missionaries able to spend time with us. What a blessing it is to be able to look after these people!!!!
  28. 9 points
    This morning a couple JW ladies stopped by our house while my wife was at home. Of course, they immediately wanted to talk about end times (their "go-to" topic). My wife asked a question of them, "How would you describe your relationship with God?" The speaker was flummoxed, and the 2nd lady had a stricken look on her face. My wife just waited in silence. After a long, uncomfortable silence, the speaker turned to the 2nd lady and looked at her for help. The 2nd lady said, "Um, I guess I would say, 'Necessary'?" The first lady looked back at my wife and simply shrugged, but said nothing. My wife said, "You, know, I agree that it is necessary to have a relationship with God for the sake of your soul's eternity, but I think I would choose a different word... I think I would say, 'Intimate'." She then briefly gave her testimony, focusing on the personal relationship she enjoys with God through salvation in Jesus Christ. She then asked if she could show them from the Bible how they could have a close, personal relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ. At that point, the 2nd person said, "Well, it's obvious that we are not going to agree on a lot of things, so I think we won't take up any more of your time. But I do have one question, What church do you go to?" My wife told her the name of our church, to which the lady said, "I knew you were a Baptist! The only people who seem to know what they believe and who talk like you do about a relationship with God are Baptists. But, honestly, most of them aren't as kind as you."
  29. 9 points
    Alan

    Missionaries

    One of the greatest joys that I remember shortly after I got saved was visiting with missionaries in various countries in South East Asia during the Vietnam War. It was a blessing in visiting the works that God gave them. The Lord gave me the honour of seeing dedicated, and sacrificial, men of God, their wives, and their ministries. A special missionary in my heart is Brother Earl Beegle. Brother Beegle was a missionary to the U.S. GI's on Taiwan. Brother Earl Beegle, helped a lot of young men gain a strong love for the scriptures, soul-winning (both Chinese and American), and HOLY living. Brother Beegle is in heaven now rejoicing in the presence of the Lord Jesus. I love missionaries. I love supporting missionaries. I love being around missionaries. As far as I am concerned, the command of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 28:18-20 is the marching order of the Captain of our Salvation until He calls us home. A New Testament church is a missions minded church.
  30. 9 points
    HappyChristian

    Starting on a new adventure

    Well, the vote was held. And it was unanimous - in favor. So my husband is now pastor of our church. I'm not sure either of us has really wrapped our heads around that, but it's sinking in.... Please do be in prayer for wisdom for him. There are a few negative things he needs to do almost right away. I say negative because it involves stopping things that have gone on that aren't right but have become accepted. He's very patient and will explain things thoroughly, but I know some people will be hurt. The young lady I was going to be meeting with will not be meeting with me. She decided that I was judging her when I told her she needed to be consistent in attending if we were going to do this. I'm still waiting on a call from her mother, who also feels I was judging her. The young lady has said she won't be back. I'm sorry to hear that, but the Lord can work on her heart.
  31. 9 points
    Jim_Alaska

    Is the KJVO "movement" dying?

    I do not consider the KJV an "issue" at all unless my individual church decides to use something else in place of it. It only becomes an "issue" among those of "like faith and order" when they look outside of each local church and see other versions being used. I also take exception to the idea that IFB is a "movement". Each local assembly is Independent, therefore cannot be considered a "movement." "Movements" come about when God's people look outside of their local assemblies and follow men because of their "strong personalities." Once God's people start down this road it is only a small step in the direction of conventions and associations. The word "Independent" means exactly what is says, independent from any outside influence or control. Once we depart from this simple definition we are setting ourselves up for problems. Scripture records that the churches we read about in the Bible were independent; this is not a name, it is a definition that denotes the stand each church takes for the truth regarding any outside control.
  32. 9 points
    swathdiver

    Is the KJVO "movement" dying?

    People of little faith! God said he would preserve His Word and he does not need Riplinger, Ruckman, Anderson, or anyone else to keep it in front of the saints for Him! There is no alternative, one either hold God's preserved word in their hands or a counterfeit.
  33. 9 points
    Ukulelemike

    The Trials of Job

    So, some years back I heard prosperity and word faith 'preacher' Kenneth Copeland talking about Job, and why he went through al his trials. Long story short, his explanation was the Job brought it on himself, because of his tendency to assume the possibility that his children had sinned, and his regular sacrifices, 'just in case', on their behalfs. So, because he had a 'negative' mindest, he essentially acted and thought himself open to the devil's influence-basically, he brought it on himself. His negative thoughts brought negative results. Recently I heard this repeated again by a fellow on Facebook, but he also added that Job surrounded himself with negative, wicked people, the ones who accused him of being wrong. It was with great joy that I had to let this fellow know that he and Copeland were doing exactly what Job's "wicked" friends did: they blamed Job for his problems, just as they had. They took part in declaring Job to be at fault. That ended the conversation-of course, he is a collar-wearing chaplain who posts his great, hard work he does in God's name, to much lauding from followers. I guess this small-time country preacher's 'opinion' wasn't worth considering. lol. Funny how this fellow, and Ken Copeland, conveniently ignore the two conversations between the Lord and Satan, where the Lord declares Job righteous, high praise coming from the Creator. Almost like He was daring Satan to challenge Him.
  34. 9 points
    DaveW

    Generalisations

    The "length of Sermon" thread - or rather some of the responses in it, have brought to my mind something which I thought of a while back. There was a thread about "loud preaching" a while back and there were the same kinds of answers given in that thread. What I speak of goes something like this: "I like long preaching", or "I Like loud preaching". Length in and of itself is irrelevant. Volume in and of itself is irrelevant. "Enthusiastic delivery" in and of itself is irrelevant. These things are irrelevant because no one would say they like a sermon that is doctrinally incorrect just because it is long. No one (after thinking about what has been said) would say a doctrinally incorrect sermon was great based on its volume or the enthusiasm with which it is delivered. Sure enough, sometimes people get all worked up in the moment, but when the excitement fades you often find that there is little substance to it. This is the key to "good preaching" - the Biblical substance.is what is important, not the volume, the intensity, or the length. So next time you are asked if you like "loud preachin' " or "long preachin' ", maybe you should think about it a bit before just answering "yep, sure". I like good preaching whether it is loud or quiet, whether it is gentle or hard, whether it is long or short. These things mean nothing IF the content is not there. I have sat through 2 1/2 hours of missions presentation and preaching and felt like I would be happy for him to continue - disappointed in fact that he was finishing - and I was not the only one. But I have also sat there after 10 mins thinking "I wish this guy would close it off right now" - and not because of conviction, but because it was a waste of time. And I am sorry to say, the majority (not ALL of it, but the majority) of "Loud Preachin' " that I have sat under was loud for the sake of being loud. I have heard some really, really, really good loud preaching, but it was good because it was full of Bible content, not because of it's volume. I personally have to force myself to "get loud" on occasion, and I wish it would come more naturally to me, but there are a lot of things about my preaching that I wish I could do better. However God called me to this, and I have to assume that He knows what He is doing in this regard. I will continue to work at improving my preaching, and I will continue to try to improve and vary my delivery, but it is what it is. Anyway, those are my two cents, and I will most likely get change from some of you, which is your right too. Have a good night, (or day, or whenever it is with you) Dave.
  35. 9 points
    Now we have some states...paying hundreds of thousands of dollars (one over one million) to do recounts of the votes in hopes of over-turning the election results. And I thought the hanging-chad incident of the Bush-Gore election results was weird. Liberals are never satisfied. I'm so tired of all of this mess. Real-life lesson #574... Babies cry until they get what they want...and then they cry after they get what they want, because they want more...or...they didn't like what they were given instead of what they wanted. The end result? A crying baby.
  36. 9 points
    The One, True Gospel & God’s Saving Grace(Part 4) Conclusion 1. All have committed sinfulness against the Lord God. 2. Because all have committed sinfulness, all stand guilty and condemned before the Lord God. 3. Because all have committed sinfulness, and thus all stand guilty and condemned, none can merit justification and salvation through any good works. 4. Because none can merit justification and salvation through good works, the Lord God has sent forth His only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, as His chosen Savior for all sinners. 5. Because none can merit justification and salvation through good works, the Lord God has provided unto all sinners the gift of justification and salvation by His grace (which by definition excludes any merit through good works). 6. Because the Lord God has provided the gift of justification and salvation by His grace through the saving work His Son, He only requires repentance and faith from any sinner in order to receive the gift of justification and salvation. 7. Even so, any doctrine of the gospel that includes any good works as a requirement for eternal justification and salvation before the Lord God for any group of individuals during any period of time is a false doctrine concerning the one, true gospel and stands in direct contradiction to the grace of God
  37. 9 points
    Alimantado

    Salvation Confusion

    You know, Matt, given your comments in that other thread about salvation and these comments here now, it really does look like you're doing your uttermost to interpret folks' understanding of salvation on here as some kind of works salvation. I worry I'm overly jumpy when it comes to people trying to outline their beliefs about salvation--you seem to take it to another level. Firstly, here's what the board's statement really says: In blue is a section you hacked out of your quote. I don't see anything in this quote that could be interpreted as man having to stop committing sins in order to be saved. Do you mean something else when you say "quitting bad"? Secondly, if you think a statement is unclear or you question its meaning, why not begin by politely asking for an explanation, instead of telling the author what they are saying in bold font? And lastly, why do you want to be on an web forum where you find yourself challenging the mods to throw you off? Doesn't that suggest you consider yourself to be strongly at odds with everyone here, or at least the admin? If I thought I was enemy no.1 on a forum, I'd decide whether to change my behaviour in order to stay or else leave by myself.
  38. 9 points
    As I mentioned in another thread, we moved the seating around in the auditorium. It was well received. We also have been talking about "kick starting" the various ministries at this church. Over many years the people here got comfortable and a bit tired - but finally people are starting to get excited. We have people wanting to get involved in youth group, kids club, Sunday School, and in evangelistic endeavours. We have people wanting to sing specials. I have been trying to get these things going and working over the last three years, but they keep stalling out. This time it "feels" different. I don't mean going on feelings, but there is something decidedly different about the talk, and the action. And the last two Sundays the car park has been full and the seats inside are pretty full. Now I know it is not my preaching - I haven't suddenly got better or anything like that. It is not my attitude - I don't think (!) anything has changed there. And it is not just excitement over changing the room around - it was swelling up before that. In fact, it was prOBably the excitement building that prompted the reshuffle. I have been slow to share this build up because of the recent atmosphere here, but I want to praise the Lord for all of this.
  39. 9 points
    Is this only for Israel? James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. What about this? James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. ...or this? James 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. ...or maybe this? James 5:13-14 13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: Wait...don't tell me...the word church there doesn't mean THE church, does it? What about this? James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Now...maybe I'm wrong...I don't know...but I seem to recall that when THE church first began...it was comprised of...ISRAELITES! Acts 2:41 & 47 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. But you would have me believe that James wasn't writing to THE church...he was only writing to Jews? I'm to believe that even though James was writing to saved Jewish believers...who were part of THE church, none of that applies to us today because it's only for the Jews? I know this will sound bad, but it needs to be said... A lot of this "right dividing" comes out of "left-field"...
  40. 9 points
    PastorMatt

    Beware!devil At Work

    It is sad that this happens. I know pastors have it hard a lot of times because they have a church with people on all different spiritual levels. Some know hardly anything about the Bible while others are very well versed. I've had people come to me and say that they are not getting fed in church. My reply usually is, "How hungry are you?" Because when you are really hungry, anything sounds really good. I love listening to preaching and according to the Bible His Word will not return void. As long as the Word of God is getting preached and I'm letting God work in me, I will get something out of that message, no matter if a kid is preaching or a seasoned preacher.
  41. 9 points
    Galatians 3:11-12 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith1. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 1The section of verse 11 that I highlighted is a quote from the Old Testament (Habakkuk 2:4)...and the opening statement of verse 12 makes it clear that the law had nothing to do with faith. Therefore, the Old Testament taught/teaches that justification came through faith alone without the works of the law. Peter understood that those from the Old Testament couldn't keep the law... Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Paul understood that those from the Old Testament couldn't keep the law... Romans 9:31-33 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Verse 33 is also a quote (actually a combined quote of two verses) from the Old Testament (Isaiah 8:14 and 28:16)...the Old Testament taught/teaches justification by faith alone. Don't stumble at the stumblingstone.
  42. 9 points
    Well...first I don't think it pits one sin against another because, as SFIC said, they are not married according to God's definition of marriage. While legally it may be divorce, spiritually it is a repentence from fornication. As far as the children, I would think getting changing their environment to where they see that homosexuality is not a valid lifestyle would be a good thing. Hurt feelings are meaningless when compared to the gravity of eternity. I also agree that I would not consent to letting them join the church without a divorce, separation, and complete cessation of their relationship because they would be in open and unrepentent sin and would immediately be subject to church discipline in the same manner as the incestuous man in 1 Cor 5. Their salvation must be addressed first and that necessarily involves the acknowledgment of sin and turning away from the old lifestyle of sin and self and pursue the will of God (i.e. repentence). If they refuse to divorce and get that part of their life right then they're effectively saying they don't care what God says they're going to live how they want to live and that is not a repentent heart and is moreso self-idolatry. The bottom-line on it is that it is an extremely public sin that would make massive waves on the health of the congregation. I would never turn them away from attending the church as guests though. Everyone should have access to the gospel and biblical preaching.
  43. 9 points
    TheSword

    Be Still, And Know That I Am God

    The Lord worked in a great and powerful way in my family this week. On Wednesday morning, my wife woke me up at 4:20 AM with the words that every expectant father both fears and rejoices in: "My water broke!" Now, this was a bit early, as she was a day shy of being full term and we had already been sent home from the hospital a couple days prior with a false alarm. She yelled this delightfully frightening phrase while in the shower trying to ease her back pain and woke me out of a dead sleep. I did my best Superman impression and got changed lightning fast. I helped her out of the shower after a contraction and she went to sit on the toilet. At 4:26 I called our friend down the street to come watch our 19 month old son while we went to the hospital. my wife yelled at me again saying that we weren't going to make it to the hospital. This boy was coming NOW! At this point, my calm and collected demeanor vanished like darkness after turning on a light and I instantly became the sitcom dad, frantically running back and forth trying to call 911. Unfortunately, the operator could not understand my hysterical "THE BABY IS COMING!!!" Another contraction came and his head was now crowning. Now I'm really panicked...I threw the phone (forgot to hang up of course) and went into full panic mode. I just wasn't prepared for this! I never expected anything like this to happen us! Truth be told, my panic was more about having to deliver the baby myself and messing up in a big way. In another instant, it sank in that I was going to have to do this; there was just no way around it. I mentally zoned in (still terrified of course). I helped my wife to the floor and leaned her back. We delivered the baby right there on our bathroom floor. A contraction came and he popped out and his head popped out; all I could see below that was umbilical cord. Our first baby had the cord wrapped around his neck and that was quick an ordeal at the hospital so I was panicking just a little bit more now. I was able to simply push it aside and off his shoulder. Two extremely short contractions later I was holding my son and the majority of the panic and anxiety was gone. Just 8 short minutes after waking, we had gone through what felt like an entire day's trial. My wife then picks up the phone and calmly explains what had just happened to the 911 operator while I checked him out and wrapped him up for Mama. The EMS got there about 20 minutes later and we went to the hospital to get everything checked out. The baby is fine and my wife is fine: no complications or serious ailments whatsoever. Of the million things that could have gone wrong with such a set of circumstances, not one of them did. God truly showed Himself and kept them both safe while guiding me to do what I needed to. Psalm 46 in particular came to mind after all the chaos had dissipated: 1God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. 2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; 3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah. 4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High. 5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early. 6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted. 7 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah. 8 Come, behold the works of the Lord, what desolations he hath made in the earth. 9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire. 10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. 11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah. God reminded me in this moment that there was no reason to panic in the first place. There was no reason to fear at all because He was still in control. With our last baby, my wife went full pre-eclamptic and we had to induce her and deliver early, he got stuck on the way out and had to be vacuumed, and he had the cord wrapped around his neck. We had been praying to have a safe, healthy, and normal pregnancy this time. I believe God answered that prayer, but not in the way we expected. He was telling us that it doesn't matter how the pregnancy goes or ends; He's still in control and holds us in His hands. "Calm down. I've got you my child" He says. God will certainly not give you more than you can handle, and will give you what you need to get through the trial. I had no false impressions on my lack of training and ability to deliver a baby (not to mention my weak stomach for blood and bodily fluids) and that's why I went into panic mode. However, when you realize that God the Almighty who created heaven and earth, who moves seas and mountains by His Word, and loves you so much He died for you is standing next to you; there's no reason to fear at all. The greatest assurance we can have on this earth is knowing that those who love and trust the Lord can depend on His provision and that regardless of the outcome, He is in control and works all things for our benefit (Rom 8:28). How sweet to hold A newbord baby To feel the pride and joy he gives But sweeter still The calm assurance This child can face uncertain days Because He lives! Because He lives I can face tomorrow Because He lives All fear is gone Because I know He holds the future And life is worthe the living Just because He lives!
  44. 9 points
    I believe our cue comes from the Lord Jesus Christ: Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. We are to SERVE and MINISTER to our congregation. While we "rule" over them according to Heb. 13:17, it is not a dictatorial rule, it is the rule of a shepherd caring for his sheep. A shepherd LEADS his sheep by example, and provides for them all along the way. Other passages for consideration: Ezek. 34 particularly v. 1-10 as an example of BAD shepherds Jer. 23:1-4 as an example of bad shepherds Matt. 9:36-38 for the need for shepherds Acts 6:4 - the primary focus of the pastor's ministry - prayer and the word of God Acts 20:17-35 - Paul's example in Ephesus I Timothy 4:12 - Paul instructs Timothy to be a living example The Pastor leads through the preaching and teaching of the word of God, and that preaching and teaching is confirmed by the Pastor's example in his daily life, as well as the Pastor's ministering to the needs of the flock. He takes care of them. A shepherd cannot drive the sheep like a cowboy drives cattle. Sheep cannot handle that, and they end up either running away or dying. They must be led - softly, gently, patiently. They need to be cared for. They need to be protected. Too many pastors think of themselves primarily as an administrator of activities. This is foreign to the Bible. Too many pastors think of themselves as "the boss" who must be obeyed - or else. Jesus Christ's observation on Israel being without a shepherd was made with COMPASSION (Mt. 9:36-38). So, when a member is hurting, we should go pray with them and comfort them. When a member is in the hospital, we should go visit them. When a member is struggling with sin, we should go MINISTER to them, by patient counsel and prayer. IN other words, we should try to HELP them get them victory, not HURT them by condemnation and pushing them out the door. Church discipline is another matter altogether. Hopefully you can see my point... If I could summarize it with one word, I would say "SERVANT-LEADER" (is that two words???) In Christ,
  45. 9 points
    Kitagrl

    Pastor’S Salary Cap

    This topic is going to irritate me, since we basically live paycheck to paycheck AND I have to work a job to help make ends meet. We have four kids and live in a parsonage and have our utilities paid, plus a salary, but the salary is definitely low enough to qualify for food stamps (although we are not on food stamps). We pay our own cell phone and most of our own gas, and bought our own cars, and pay for our own internet, etc. We also pay for Christian school. If a church can pay a pastor enough to have a savings account and a retirement and live as comfortable as his people, then more power to that church. Amen. AMEN!!!!! And to those who think pastors do not work to earn their salary....well I am going to leave the topic before I blow up on that one. Honestly and frankly, what I wouldn't give some days for my husband and myself to be OUT of the ministry. Perks? Choose a church of your own choosing. Choose the ministries you are comfy with. And find a job that pays you enough to support your family that matches your talents and skills. But we are IN the ministry because God called us....and when people say things like "Pastors should work" or "Pastors are overpaid" it just makes me ANGRY. I had my sister in law who makes six figures a year tell me it must be nice that I have a free house and utilities paid. REALLY? She'd really like to live in my parsonage from 1940 that needs tons of work that nobody can afford to do right now? She'd really like to have my bank account with little more than $100-$200 in it at any one given time? Yeah. People who grudge pastors and their families for the sacrifices they make REALLY get me annoyed. And I'm cranky today so that makes it worse. hahaha. I will say God provides for us and I'm thankful for it. But most people who criticize pastors would NEVER want to trade places with their family if they had to walk in their shoes and in their budget for a month. Nope. (Oh, and yes, we generously give to our church as a good example...most likely we give a larger percentage of our income than anyone in the church, although we have never looked at the record books to find out.)
  46. 8 points
    No Nicolaitans

    The Altar

    Hi Thief on the Cross. I will give you my view on it; others' views may differ. First, I'm not sure how the area (that you're referring to) became known as "the altar". At one time, it was called things like "the mourner's bench". Charles Finney called it "the anxious bench". Those latter two names will give you the significance of it. Basically, the idea and purpose for it is that it gives a person (who may be under conviction) the opportunity to respond to that conviction at the earliest possible moment after hearing the word of God preached. The idea being, that if a person possibly waits, they may (or may not) make a decision in response to God's word. That's a good question. I personally believe that to call that area "the altar" isn't really in keeping with the biblical use of the term. The altar was the place (in the Old Testament) where animals were sacrificed and slain. There was also the altar of incense. Various people also built altars in the Old Testament prior to the institution of the law. I don't recall if any of those altars were used for anything other than sacrificing animals. They may have been; I just don't recall right now. In the New Testament (aside from the four gospels), the only altars that are mentioned which aren't for Israel's sacrificing of animals are... 1. An altar to false gods in Acts 17. 2. An altar mentioned in Hebrews 13 that belongs to "us". I think most people would say that this altar is the cross of Christ since that is where he was slain. 3. The altar of God in heaven in Revelation. Now aside from that, is there a biblical reason for doing this? I would say that's up to the individual church... My reasons in favor of it: 1. When the people heard the word of the Lord read in Nehemiah 8, they immediately acted upon it. 2. When the keeper of the prison asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, he was told and immediately acted upon it. Now, it must be understood that in those two examples, there wasn't "an altar" (as we're referring to). They heard the word of God and immediately acted on it. So, people can still act on what they've heard from God's word without an "altar". My main reason for using those examples is that it (the altar call) gives people the opportunity to act immediately after hearing the word of God. However, the actual "acting on God's word" takes place in our daily lives. My reasons against it... There is nothing in the bible (that I know of) to describe what we know as today's altar call. At the same time, there is nothing in God's word describing a Sunday School, Church Choirs, Assistant Pastors, etc. There are many things done today that fall under what I would call "Christian Liberty". There may not be anything expressly supporting them in scripture; however, there isn't anything expressly forbidding them either. So churches are at liberty to use them. My concern (apart from the name itself) is that "the altar call" has become more than it was intended to be. Some use that time to pressure people. Some use it as a way of measuring a successful sermon. Some use it as a way to compare themselves with other churches. I want to stress "some"...not all! Now keep in mind, these are my thoughts on it. Others may disagree. In fact, if anyone knows that I'm mistaken in any part of this, I would hope they would point that out to me so that I can make it right.
  47. 8 points
    I do believe that the KJO "movement" is dying, but I'm OK with that. The KJV was around centuries before there was ever a "movement", and will be here long after the movement is over. A movement is spearheaded by men following men. And what men lead other men into, they can lead them out of. I suspect that when we get to heaven, God's opinion of the shadow cast by some of the IFB "greats" will not be quite as high as their own opinion of themselves. John the Baptist said "He must increase, but I must decrease". I've watched these men do nothing but increase for decades, until they crashed one-by-one, ruining their testimonies, as well as the testimony of their "movement". Some 100 -odd years of Icarus flying too close too the sun on wings held together by the wax of personality. It melted. Now we're falling from the sky. We have spent decades sending our best and brightest to these centralized "institutions of higher learning" established and run by egomaniacs and carnal showmen, and failed to do our duty as a local church and train up our own, as commanded by II Timothy 2:2. So we now have a full 2 generations of "pastors" in this country who are the ignorant, carnal product of our own lazy, irresponsibility. The answer? The few real, godly, veteran pastors that are left must start taking their own young preachers under their own wing, and lead them at home by example in weeping, working, loving, studying, preaching, praying and living right. Pastoring is about nights on our knees, not neckties around our necks. It's about working hard on sermons, not waxing eloquent on social ills. It's sacrifice, not salaries. Humility instead of haughtiness. Building faith, not getting fat. We call ourselves "Christian". "Followers of Christ". Well, Christ was poor, humble, loving and forgiving while still preaching hard truth. He was hard working and invested in his disciples on a 24-hour-a-day, personal, sacrificial basis. We, the IFB "movement" left following Christ and began following men who named Christ, but followed themselves. I'm 50 years old. I was born to an IFB preacher, and raised in it my whole life. 3 of my uncles were IFB preachers. My dad graduated under DR Tom Malone at Northwestern in 1972. I was ordained in 1998 as an IFB preacher, and have preached in IFB churches across the US and in a number of foreign countries. I am heartsick at the condition of the church today as a whole. We have to stop doing what got us in this mess in the first place, and start accepting our responsibility to replace ourselves, (Matthew 28:18-20, II Timothy 2:2 etc.), while making sure daily we are even worth replacing.
  48. 8 points
    DaveW

    The Word vs the word of God

    I think it is simply to differentiate between the living Word of God and the written word of God, the former being a person, the latter being a book. Think of it this way - they could not leave the (person of the) Word of God even if they wanted to, but they were being forced to leave the ministry of the study of the (written) word of God by the necessity of the physical ministering required. The translators wanted to leave the reader in no doubt of this matter and made a difference of notation. There is no question that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of God, but as you sit in church with a Bible in your hands you do not consider it to be the physical presence of the Lord Jesus Christ in that actual book, do you? Hope this helps.
  49. 8 points
    DaveW

    Has God cast aside Israel?

    This is on a blog site that I know of......I have permission to post it here. Has God cast aside Israel?There is a whole raft of people out that that have been taught that Christians replace Israel as God’s chosen people. Those who teach this do so primarily so that they can apply the rules and laws pressed upon Israel onto Christians, and so that their teachers can take the authority and position of priests. Pastors are not priests (well at least not any more than any other saved person is a priest), but that is for another time.This teaching, which takes several different forms and names, but which is called usually “replacement theology” or sometimes “covenant theology” seeks to divorce Israel from the Lord and have the Lord remarry another bride, Christianity. They usually talk about “the church” replacing Israel, but that is an erroneous understanding of the church.The easiest way to see whether or not this idea is true is to see if the promises given to Israel are transferable to another. With that in mind, let’s look at the first of the promises made to the nation of Israel, before they wreLet’s set a precedent:Gen_9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.The “law of first mention” (which is not actually a law by the way) indicates that the first mention of something sets the primary meaning, and unless the context indicates otherwise, this primary meaning is the standard.In Genesis 9:16 we have the first mention of an “everlasting covenant”.I think we all understand that this particular everlasting covenant is not dependent upon this sinful and sin affected world in any way.If it were, then we would have had at least one judgement flood since that time.So, with the understanding that an everlasting covenant is indeed everlasting – otherwise it is not an everlasting covenant (Is that too simple a concept?), let’s look at another everlasting covenant.Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. OK then, here we have an everlasting covenant that is given to Abram and to his children (thy seed after thee).The sign of this covenant on the side of the people was circumcision.Note however that as this is an everlasting covenant to Abram and to his seed after him, that the covenant is made to this group of people – IF AN INDIVIDUAL person refuses to be circumcised, then he has no part of the covenant.That does not break the covenant for all those people but for the individual only.Note also that there is NO OTHER CONDITION placed upon the people subject to this covenant.Note also that this everlasting covenant is to a specific people and for a specific LAND.This can not be an everlasting covenant if the Lord then takes it away from this particular group of people and transfers it to any other group of people, and in any case the removal of this covenant can only be upon individuals and only if they refuse to be circumcised.This brings up two points:Do the Jews still circumcise?If the answer to that is “Yes”, then the covenant has not been taken from them, and still applies. It will always apply to the nation in any case, as the removal was only possible for individuals – hence it can be removed from an individual and still remain an EVERLASTING covenant. Even with circumcision, can this covenant be transferred to another people?The Bible does not talk about this covenant being transferable. The possibility is never even mentioned. And if it was, there is still no provision in the making of the covenant that it can be taken away from the original subjects of the covenant.The claim that this promise was taken from them because of disobedience is CLEARLY UNBIBLICAL. Only one form of disobedience was relevant to this covenant, and that only applied on an individual level, not a national level.The land is the physical land that they were standing on, and it was promised under an EVERLASTING COVENANT to the actual physical seed of Abram.To somehow make it apply in a spiritual sense to Christians today is an outrageous abuse of Scripture and an attempt to deceive by false teaching. This should put to rest any idea that God has fully and finally forsaken His chosen nation. The concept of an Everlasting Covenant is certain an irrefutable, and it applies clearly to the Nation of Israel. To remove it from them is to break God’s Promise. There is of course more to it that just this one covenant, but God has not, can not, and will not remove this covenant from the nation of Israel.
  50. 8 points
    Thanks to all who have kept us in prayer, it is paying off. We had a young couple visit, he was raised in church but was never saved. He asked about being baptized so we asked about his salvation. He said he wasn't saved so we explained it. He had some understanding, like he'd heard but never put it together. Seed had been planted, and praise God we were allowed the harvest. He's getting baptized next Sunday.
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