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  1. 2 points
    ....and that would be me. I would be one of the two fatalities.
  2. 2 points
    John Young

    Post-Trib Rapture?

    The nation of Israel was established by the National Covenant at Mt. Sinai. It is not synonymous with the Old and New Testament Covenants which started with the first and second Adams and has different requirements to be part of then the testaments. The early church made this distinction clear in Acts 15 and Acts 21 that entering the National Covenant of Israel was not a requirement for the gentiles nor was it the same covenant that you receive when you are saved by God. It was however still a covenant in effect for Jews who wished to identify with the nation of Israel. To say otherwise is to contradict the Apostles and fundamentally misunderstand what Paul is teaching in regard to Being "Jewish". Salvation, as Peter stated in Acts 15:11 is the same for all people: But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. James also makes clear in Acts 15:17-18 that of all people, including gentiles of old. that are called by his name who are saved and will be saved: 17 that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Paul is in agreement with this as well when he states that all people of every age is saved the same way, by calling on the name of the lord: Romans 10:11-13 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. While they all believe and taught that Salvation was the same for all people they rejected the idea that the National Israelite Covenant was for all people, that it was required for salvation, or that it was for all saved believers. They taught that the Household of Faith and the Israelite Nation were different and were entered differently. They did not teach that the National covenant suddenly became a spiritual national covenant for all believers. Rather they taught the spiritual household of faith for all believers in the Old Testament was "David's Tabernacle" and in the New Testament was rebuilt by Christ into what is now the Spiritual Body of Christ. What Paul teaches is that a Jew (someone in the national covenant of Israel) is nothing without Salvation. He is not teaching that saved gentiles are now the true Jew. Rather , he is teaching a Saved Jew is a true Jew.
  3. 1 point
    When was the last time you remember, quoting or saying this verse? Jas.4 [15] For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
  4. 1 point
    No Nicolaitans

    Post-Trib Rapture?

    I can see that you and I disagree. I agree with part of you definition. Endure means to suffer; to last, or remain. So...the Lord is referring to those who last (or remain) through the suffering of the Tribulation period. In other words...those who physically survive it. Who are "those" people? Well, according to the context of the verse of scripture in question (taking into account the surrounding verses)...it's talking about the remnant of the nation of Israel. After all, just a few verses later, the Lord said to pray ye that your flight be not in the winter; neither on the sabbath day. Why would a Gentile believer be concerned over whether they had to flee on the sabbath? Now... What does "saved" mean? In God's word, do the words "save" or "saved" always refer to spiritual salvation? Let's look... There are many more, but that's a good verse to end this on...that we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us: The verse in question is referring to the remnant of the Jews who will survive until the end of Tribulation period (those who endure), and as the book of Zechariah points out, they will be saved from sure and certain destruction when the Lord returns at the end of the Tribulation period. Today, when we think of the words "save" or "saved", our mind immediately goes to the thought of spiritual salvation; however, that's not what it's always referring to. It can also mean "physical" salvation from harm. It can also mean "except"...such as... When comparing scripture with scripture, the verse in question is talking about those (of the nation of Israel) who have lasted (endured) throughout the sufferings of the Tribulation period. Don't forget, many of them will flee to the mountains and be cared for...they won't "have to stay strong through the hour of temptation". Those Jews (who last...or endure...until the end will be physically saved from sure destruction when the Lord Jesus Christ returns in all of his glory and destroys those who would destroy them.
  5. 1 point
    Invicta

    Whats for Supper...

    Church fellowship lunch today. Ella celebrated her 100th. birthday. Good number attended. Ella was originally brought to our church coffee morning by Giselle a Belgian member of our church some years ago and has been attending whenever she can since then.
  6. 1 point
    John Young

    Post-Trib Rapture?

    Part 2... Take note of these verses from Acts 15: Acst 15:1-2 And certain men which came down from Judæa taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. [This was the mark of entering the National covenant, they were saying that they had to enter the national covenant before they could be saved by Christ] 2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. [they believed without entering in to the national covenant] 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? [the Israel of old and the Jews of the day could not keep the national covenant as God demanded in order for the nation to be properly established] 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. [meaning that even though the Israelite and Jews could not keep the national covenant they were still saved the same way as the gentiles]12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, [the old testament version of the church, which was a covenant for all nations, Isaiah 56] which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [A quote from Amos 9 which also makes clear the that the nation will be destroyed and Jacob will be scattered while the Tabernacle of David is rebuilt and then later that Jacob will return to reestablish the Nation of Israel] 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 but that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. [Meaning while christian Jews should not try to make gentiles convert, the Christian gentiles needed to make these concessions so that the Jews could keep their National covenant in good conscience and not be defiled when the gentiles meet with them in services.] Part 3.... Acts 21:18-28 goes on to teach this: 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe [Paul and James celibrate souls saved by faith in their ministries]; and they are all zealous of the law: [the issues then becomes about the national covenant of Israel] 21 and they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. [A lot of people think that Paul is teaching to Jews to forsake the National Covenant but both Paul, James, and the other Apostles agree that this is NOT what Paul is teaching for the JEWS. Rather he teaches the National covenant e has nothing to do with one's salvation and that Gentiles should not try to keep it as part of their salvation or sanctification before God (just as Peter stated in acts 15:10)] 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. [Paul has always been an observant jew who kept the National covenant and James and Paul want to show this to the Jerusalem church] 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.[They were giving the offering of the Nazorite to bless their nation]27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place. In his defense Paul states clearly that he believes this physical nation to still be the Nation of Israel as seen in these verses: Acts 24:10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself: Acts 24:17 Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings. Acts 26:4 My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; Acts 28:19 But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Cæsar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.
  7. 1 point
    Lol Yes, I think I agree. Although, maybe Jeremiah was just saying that gold covered Christmas trees were not acceptable for the Christmas celebration. I wonder if they had turkey for Christmas dinner or maybe it was goat as a sort of middle eastern adaption to the Roman Catholic version of Christmas, or the American version of Christmas.
  8. 1 point
    Alan

    Post-Trib Rapture?

    TomB, The above study on the trumpets was taken from the following link: TomB, If you would carefully study the "Trumpets" in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testament, it is very clear that the7 trumpets in the book of Revelation, the trumpet in Matthew 24:31, and the "trump of God" as listed in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 are for different reasons and different times. The 7 trumpets in the book of Revelation are all for JUDGMENT and not for the calling of the assembly of Jews nor for the calling of the assembly of the church. Alan
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