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Showing content with the highest reputation on 09/20/2013 in all areas

  1. 4 points
    irishman

    Should I Be A Channel?

    SFIC seems to have a problem with things unmentioned in the Bible, rather, I suppose his problem is more with the things that are written. Once you reject truth, the lie seems accurate. Here is something to dwell on:(don't bother responding until you read it thru entirely. Too many accusations and errors are supposed by a scanning through a post. Can you read it impartially? It is long, and thorough. The Tithe (13 references in the Bible) Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. I suppose, when it comes to discussing the tithe, that we must start at the beginning. In Gen 14, we see two things that should be of interest to us: 1. That Melchizedek initiated the “bread and wine” of communion in honor of Abraham. 2. That Abraham gave a tithe of all that he had taken, lest some claim to have favored Abraham, and made him rich through the tithe. The “tithe” in Gen. 14 was given in response to the communion of victory that Melchizedek initiated. It was also in response to the blessing that Melchizedek bestowed upon him. The picture here is that the Lord blesses us, and we give to him that which we know He has given to us! It seems, to the human mind, a bit redundant to give from what He gives us, but the beauty of the whole scene is the communion that we have with Christ. The Lord shows, in many ways, that a little bit can do a lot when it is given with a pure heart. So, here one might see the establishment of the tithe, and the “why” behind it. Everything the Lord does has reason, and that includes the tithe. Sometimes the reason is for teaching; sometimes it is for celebration (as here); and sometimes it for reasons perhaps unknown to us, but not without merit. The tithe was for Israel, God’s chosen people. It was an important part of their worship, showing that God is greater than man, and is worthy of all our attentions. This is the first reference to the tithe in the Bible. The next reference is in Leviticus 27:30: Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. Here we find that God has sanctified the tithe, and “It is holy”. Abraham seems to have impressed God greatly with the tithe, and the Lord adapted it into His law; it remains a tribute to the righteousness of God, and the subjection of man to His will. Verse 32 carries it a little further: Lev 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. The tithe covered everything that is important to man, the fruit of the land, and the wealth of the livestock. It becomes a sacrifice. Mans sustenance , all that he has, (Gen. 14:20) was what the Lord has allowed him, and the tithe the Lord kept for Himself. Some refute the tithe because our God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and He has no need of a tithe, but in so doing, they question the veracity of the Lord, and His Word, and dishonor Him by holding back that which is holy unto Him. In Numbers 18:26 we have another reference to the tithe: “Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.” First, we have here an explanation of what the tithe was for. God had given it to the Levites instead of an inheritance in Israel. He demanded a tithe from the people, and passed it on to the Levites, much of what we do today in the church. Remember the Old Testament was a shadow of things to come, it was a picture of God dealing with His people, and today, if we are born from above, we are His people. In Numbers 18:23, we have the duty of the Levites, and the expression that they shall have no inheritance among the children of Israel. Several verses in that text reiterate the purpose of the tithe. Here is a reference that deserves consideration in Deut. 12:11 : Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD: Doesn’t this sound as if it could also refer to the church? Is not the church a “place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause His name to dwell there”? He is providing a place for us today also called “the church“ and is specific in what we are to bring there. Not that is not “smoking gun” proof, I realize, but let us continue our study: Deuteronomy 14:22: “And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.” An interesting verse indeed; here, the Lord is again very specific as to wht the tithe is, and more so He offers the real and best reason behind the tithe--“That thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always” (Note the word “always”) The tithe is to glorify the Lord always. “Always” means forever, every generation, till the end of time; it was given to the Jew, because the Gentiles were heathen and had no part in the things of God, but it was for all of God’s children everywhere, and in every age. If this were not true, we make God a liar in saying that it is “forever”, do we not? We must all ask ourselves why we don’t want to tithe, or rather why we don’t believe the tithe is God’s forever. Giving back 10% is not easy for any of us, but the investment is well worth the sacrifice. Jn the text of Deut. 14, we see more about the blessing of the tithe (v. 29), and verse 28 speaks of a special tithe of the land to be brought every third year. If the tithe is too much to be easily transported, the Levites were to exchange it for money, but money was only conditional concerning the tithe. Most of the “average” people were pour, and lived off the land and the livestock that the Lord had supplied them, so money was not as prominent in their societies as it is in our culture today, but a tithe is still a tithe. In 2 Chronicles 31:5 we read as follows: “And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.” The command here spoken of referred to the portion of the tithe that was to be given to the priests and Levites. The abundance of the peoples first-fruits was given insomuch as they had far more than was needed. God had blessed them abundantly, and they in turn were to be a blessing to the priests and Levites so that they might be encouraged in the law of the Lord. “Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the LORD” (v. 4). So, the tithe was also given for encouraging the full time workers of the Lord. Nehemiah dealt with the tithe also: Neh 10:35 And to bring the firstfruits of our ground, and the firstfruits of all fruit of all trees, year by year, unto the house of the LORD: Neh 10:36 Also the firstborn of our sons, and of our cattle, as it is written in the law, and the firstlings of our herds and of our flocks, to bring to the house of our God, unto the priests that minister in the house of our God: Neh 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage. Neh 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house. The Levites were not exempt from tithing, they were to tithe from the tithe they received from the people of God. The church follows this same pattern today, that the tithe would not be ignored, but remain in perpetuity as the Lord commanded Israel. The dispensationalists of today have a problem with this, and separate the nation of Israel from the children of God today, but we are all spiritual Jews in the eyes of the Lord (read Galations 3). The Levites did not tithe to themselves, but to the Lord that His work might continue without interruption. New Testament Tithing As already mentioned several times, the tithe was perpetual, an everlasting honor, if you will, to the Lord as well as a token of thanksgiving and an encouragement to those who live off the tithes and offerings of the congregations. They continue to supply the needs that otherwise would overwhelm the church, and the gates of hell then could prevail against it. Thirteen times in the Old Testament we have seen the tithe mentioned, and only two mentions in the Gospels, but they are not without significance until you throw out the instruction and principle of the Old Testament, which is what the dispensationalist seems to want to do. In Matt. 23:23 we have one of two references to tithing in the New Testament. Here and Luke 11:42 say virtually the same thing: Mat 23:23 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” Luk 11:42 “But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” The last line says it all, “…And not left the other undone.” Our Lord is admonishing them to keep on tithing of the things mentioned, and not to leave them undone. The Pharisee’s still paid tithes, and they were not rebuked for doing so, the fact is, they were encouraged to keep doing it! I know that to some, the New Testament grace has not yet been ushered in, but again, the dispensationalist must interpret this in a way to make it fit because many do not want to tithe! The lack of any mention other than this is not a valid argument. Since the church is different than the tabernacle, and functions differently in some areas, the lack of the word “tithe” becomes questionable to many. In 1 Cor. 8 we find some interesting evidences of giving by percentage. 2Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 2Co 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: So that one brother is not overburdened, the Lord does not ask them to give excessively, but equally. The only way they can give equally is to give a percentage. Ten percent is ten percent for everyone, and is no more of a burden for a rich man than for a poorer man. Verse 15, the next verse, shows us that the Old testament principles are applicable in the New Testament too. Here is what v. 15 says: 2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack. You may recall that this statement was made concerning the Israelites and the gathering of manna, as the Lord provided. (Exodus 16, read entire text) Note that the last verse qualifies the matter with “an omer is the tenth part of an ephah” (That which they used to dole it out). The tenth part, this is the meaning of “tithe” it means “tenth”. They measured out a tenth of an ephah for each man, and double on the day before the Sabbath. If any of us would have applied this verse the way that Paul did, we would hear from a dozen people that we took it out of context! Again, let me say, the Old testament supports the New. Though the eighth chapter of 2 Corinthians is speaking of charitable giving and not tithing specifically, we can glean some information from these instances. They gave out of love; love should be the reason we give also. They gave in faith; faith must apply to tithing as well. If we cannot trust God to keep His promises to us, we are of all men most miserable. We should see the ned of the church, and understand that it takes money to make things happen as they should, and out of love for the work, we ought to tithe. I believe that those who do not tithe are too self-centered to exercise faith in giving, and do not fully trust their Lord as they might think they do. Most of us know that you will not find a “chapter and verse” for New Testament tithing, but there are very strong implications, for instance: Paul aid he could take pay as a full time worker, but chose not to (1 Cor. 9:6). 1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? I find it strange that Paul wouid apply this Old testament verse to New Testament support, don’t you? We finish this passage with the following: 1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. 1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? 1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. 1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. 1Co 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. If the church was not expected to tithe, Paul’s words would be meaningless. This idea of giving according to your own whim would not work because most of us do not easily part with our “hard earned” money. Most non-tithers do not give enough to support the ministry in any fashion. His heart is not on tithing: Psa. 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. The non-tither is doing things his way, and not God’s way: Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Though the verses immediately above have little, or nothing to do with tithing, they do show human nature, which often dictates what we want, and not necessarily what we should do. I think you get my point. Take a look at this verse: 2Co 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. Our giving is not according to whether we have the money or not, but to equal giving, which, as stated before, demands a percentage giving. Ten percent it what the lord has commanded in the past, and it is carried over into the church age, or present. (reference given earlier) The command and promise of Luke 6:38 still applies today: Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. What would a discourse on tithing be without quoting that time-tested verse, MalachI 3:10? “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” The New Testament reference in 2 Corinthians 9, though it has more to do with charitable giving, proves the accuracy of this verse. 2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: Some take issue with the phrase “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart. So let him give”, they allow this to be the standard for giving of tithes, and any other means of giving. Don’t we know that the “heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” (Jer. 17:9) and none can really know how much? The purpose if their heart in this verse means having the right attitude for giving, as the last part of the verse clarifies. We are to give out of a good motive, a motive of love, and not necessarily out of command or any other rule or emotion. It does not mean let him give whatever he wants to give for that week or month, else he would always find excuse not to tithe. We need to quit looking for “loopholes” in the law, and in the commands of God; a loophole is merely unbelief in disguise, and affords many excuses to go contrary to the Lord’s will and the Word of God.
  2. 3 points
    Concerning the "humorous" point that it is impossible for men to understand women, I must admit that I am a bit grieved by our continuing focus as believer upon this point of humor. Indeed, I fear that this point of humor is easily employed by our adversary the devil as a tool to deceive our hearts and thereby to destroy our marriage relationships. Yea, the deception is as follows: If it is practically impossible for a man to understand a woman, and as a corollary for a husband to understand his wife, then there is no point for the husband even to make the attempt. Yet God's Holy Word in 1 Peter 3:7 instructs the husband to dwell at harmony with his wife in accord with his knowledge and understanding of her. By implication this Biblical instruction gives to the husband the responsibility to pursue knowing and understanding his wife. Furthermore, God's Word never indicates the idea that it is practically impossible for a husband to know and understand his wife. Therefore, the truthfulness of this socially acceptable maxim seems to lack any real Biblical authority. Finally, the claim within this socially acceptable maxim that there is no instructive guide for the husband in seeking to know and understand his wife is Biblically false. Pursuing a knowledge and understanding of one's wife (or, of any individual for that matter) is primarily founded upon the principles of good, godly communication. Even so, God Himself had indeed given us an instructive guide for the husband to know and understand his wife through good, godly communication. This instructive guide is God's Holy Word itself! Yes, the guidance and instruction of God's Holy Word concerning interpersonal relationships and concerning the marriage relationship is all-sufficient for the husband's responsibility to pursue knowing and understanding his wife. Well, that was my soapbox moment for this morning.
  3. 2 points
    Eric Stahl

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Proverbs 21:20 20There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up. Did you ever consider that you may be the one God wants to have the money.
  4. 2 points
    Steve Schwenke

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Which explains why I offered the links to Donald in the first place....
  5. 2 points
    John81

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Does it seem odd to anyone that the conservative fundamentalists of the past held to much different views in several areas than those who call themselves conservative fundamentalists today? Does anyone find it telling that so many today are willing to write volumes to promote various viewpoints that's nowhere found in the New Testament for Christians? Does anyone see that IFBs are a rather small group and yet they are often greatly divided over several matters?
  6. 2 points
    TheSword

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Have you considered there's a chance you may be wrong? Does it not seem odd to you that in a group of fundamentalists with a quite conservative view of Scripture all of them (at least the ones that are speaking up) are on the opposing side? Is it more likely that all of us who are Biblically sound and consistent of the other topics frequented here are blatantly wrong? Or is it more likely that you as the one standing in opposition may be missing something? You keep asking "where's the principle" and people keep trying to show you; but rather than consider what is said about the principle you would rather throw down strawmen of technicality without ever thoughtfully interacting with the point being made. Steve made a valid point about it all being a valuable commodity and all you care to respond about is a flimsy argument about direct commands to bankers and other tradesmen. Did you consider that even bankers, and coppersmiths, and potters likely had crops and livestock to some extent? Did you consider that they may be tithing out of that? Did you consider they may be tithing out of the crops and livestock they purchased with money from their other trade? Or are you so stuck on your insistence that only farmers and herdsmen tithed that you can't see any other possibility? Did you also consider that when the Law was actually given there were no farmers at all? They were still wandering in the wilderness eating manna. Did they tithe out the manna they collected?? When the overwhelming majority of people you otherwise agree with on many other subjects disagree with you on something in unison, your first response shouldn't be to insist everyone else is wrong. Rather, a better approach is to consider that you might be missing something and ask God to illuminate the subject and when both sides of the argument are thoughtfully engaged, make a judgement on the truth of it. Consider actually engaging people's arguments instead of assuming they're wrong and searching for some way to get around it.
  7. 2 points
    Absolutely. But all too often people claim "love" as their reason for being crass, unkind, and repugnant in their words. When someone calls someone an idiot, or a heretic just because that person might disagree with him/her, that is not love. It is, in fact, a form of pride - which those who use that terminology (and again, I include myself, because we have all done it) deny. But the Bible clearly states that "Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom." That doesn't mean that every disagreement has its root in pride. But when that disagreement turns to name calling and claiming that someone isn't saved because they don't agree with someone else, or that someone is a heretic because they believe the Bible teaches a certain way (and there is actually some grounds for it), it is due to pride. I just experienced that with someone I've known for years and years. She accused me (wrongly) of something and when I called her on it, she proceeded to blast me. I wrongly responded in kind, but then stopped. Later I asked for her forgiveness and told her I forgave her, because we were both wrong. She blasted me again, telling me she wasn't wrong, but was standing up for herself (she forgave me but told me not to forgive her because she did nothing wrong). She wasn't - she was just being argumentative, cruel and unkind. And she called it love. There was no love in what she did. Upshot is that a friendship that I thought was solid is gone. Sad. I think that's why that particular thread got to me. There's been too much of that kind of attitude on here lately. Debate and discuss, by all means (and there will always be someone who cries "not edifying" especially if they can't answer the point being made), but do it with real love. I know, some men are going to say because I'm a woman I'm getting mushy when thinking about love. Nope, not at all. The truth of the matter is, when discussions turn to arguments and unkindness, it is because emotions are inflamed. Of either gender.
  8. 2 points
    TheSword

    Should I Be A Channel?

    I appreciate Irishman's explanation and argument for his position, as it closely mirror the one I gave. However, this is why I didn't want to bother posting it again. You completely missed, or ignored, the point that it is based on principle and not ordinance. I'm not sure how many other ways to say that yes, we agree the Law and its ordinances are abolished; however, we believe that the principles behind the Law are still valuable in knowing and following God.
  9. 2 points
    Must be the Fall Shareathon! Will there be prayer cloths or a small vial of Jordan River water given as incentives?
  10. 2 points
    A facebook friend of mine, a well-known pastor/radio preacher/author...good man, recently posted something to the effect that if husbands would 'take the lead' women would naturally follow. That is simply not always the case. The Bible speaks of perils of a "brawling woman in a wide house", odious women etc. Some of the women posted replies to his post to the effect that "my husband won't 'lead'...so I don't have to submit". No, the Bible says that if the husband isn't doing right and won't "lead" the wife is commanded to take the "lead" by submitting. That's not meaning she is to be a doormat either. But to say or even imply that it's all the man's fault is simply false. God puts the responsibility on the husband and the wife for how the home is "lead". 1 Peter 3:3 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. If that isn't 'leadership" I don't know what is.
  11. 1 point
    We have no visited 10 "Independent" Baptist Churches in the area we moved to (Troutman, NC). 1 Pastor preached completely Topical and wasn't awful, but he used passages completely out of context to prove his point. 9 Pastors "Yelled" for anywhere from 30 min to 90 minutes saying absolutely nothing, but called it "Old Fashion" Preaching. Some even jumped up on the communion table to continue preaching. 1 church used Looney toons to teach the children to sing "this little light of mine" and other children's songs. They also used video's to teach Jr. Church. No wonder our Independent Baptist churches are dying.
  12. 1 point
    Hello. I am Shawn Atchison and I live in Montana. I'm a lover of the outdoors and go camping or fishing every summer. Nice when you can do both, but not always possible. I got saved at a pastors conference I attended with my pastor over in Eastern Washington about 3 years ago. Since then I have been reading the Bible and trying to learn to study it. I haven't come as far in my walk as I'd like, but I realize that I'm a work in progress and so I keep having faith in God to do the work in me. I found this site via a link on Facebook I think. It's nice to be here.
  13. 1 point
    irishman

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Where does the Bible say that Jesus did away with the tithe? Chapter and verse please (two can play this game) Tithe of livestock changed to money? Deut. 14:24-26 (especially 24) Where do I get a "perpetual" tithe? Deut. 14:23 deut. 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. Always means forever, which is perpetual.
  14. 1 point
    TheSword

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Lots of accusations with no examples. No matter. For what it's worth, I used to agree with you position until I started really studying my Bible (not to say you don't, but that was my turning point). Good for you for sticking with your favored method of interpretation in the face of any and all opposition. Enjoy your non-tithing worship. I'll worship with my tithe.
  15. 1 point
    TheSword

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Case in point. All of that and you zone in on one thing you think you can tear down and avoid all the rest. I, as well as others, have offered multiple Scriptures with explanation in multiple threads and you've either rejected or ignored them and offered only pithy strawmen in return. You clearly don't want to hear anything but agreement and aquiescence to your interpretation. All done here. I won't engage in this exercise in futility anymore.
  16. 1 point
    John81

    A Positive Post By Tgl

    What are you trying to do, stir up some real trouble! Just because you have a good day does that mean everyone has to? Why are you limiting the conversation to positive only, just so you can be controlling? Well, I positively salute this fine thread and the opportunity to inject positive levity. Now it's time for a positive
  17. 1 point
    Amazing that some chime in because of the humor of this topic giving lectures. And the fact is this topic started out with humor so no one should be surprised if much humor is passed out all though this topic. >The first post in this topic can be seen right here. So if you have a problem with the humor side of this topic when you read that 1st post you should just quietly drop out & ignore it letting others share a bit of humor. Having been married since May 18, 1968 never separated never a threat of separation I feel i could give some very good advice on the subject of marriage, & one I will give now, never forget to included some humor in your marriage, along with laughter. Pr 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones. I sure don't want to be like the last part of that important verse from the book of Proverbs. PS. If this first post under this topic had not been humor & was addressing an important issue about marriage I would not be making this post & would think we should stick to the point trying to help that person. >Again, see the 1st post.
  18. 1 point
    Steve Schwenke

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Well, we know that the OT tithe, even though agricultural, had monetary value. We know this because of the allowance the Law makes to change the tithe into money, then buy back the produce at the Temple. So it is not like they just brought 1/10th of their grain down to the Levitical city or the Temple, it was a valued commodity that had monetary value. Yes, we know and understand that the Lord did not tell the bankers to "tithe" and the tithe as described in the Law was from the fields or cattle. We got that. But the principle of it is that it was a valuable commodity. It had real monetary value assigned to it. It was a sacrifice for those agricultural people to give a tithe. I believe the Lord did not mention the business men in the Law because the Lord's intentions for Israel was to be a rural society, and minimize the power of corrupt people in the cities. I believe the Lord desired an agriculturally based economy for the nation of Israel, thus the instructions on the tithe. I don't think for one minute that the Lord exempted the city dwellers from the tithe, I just think that some things go without saying. (City dwellers deal in cold, hard currency.) If God demanded a tithe from the farmers and ranchers, then why would God NOT require a tithe from the business men and bankers? It doesn't make sense (cents? ). It just goes without saying. And as Irishman pointed out, the NT is built upon the foundation of the apostles and PROPHETS (i.e. the OT). Maybe the Lord did not put this issue in the NT because He figured we would be smart enough to pick up on the idea that we should give generously and sacrificially to the Lord's work, and that a good principle to work from is the tithe. Again, not "demanding" a tithe, I just think it is a good principle to follow...
  19. 1 point
    Standing Firm In Christ

    Should I Be A Channel?

    You don't have to say, "I tithe" verbatim. If you didn't believe in the monetary tithe, you wouldn't be attacking my character as you do. It has been my experience with everyone I have ever conversed with concerning the unscriptural monetary tithe doctrine that, if they believed in it, they attacked me and accused me of being greedy and and all kinds of lies. As I said, you don't have to say it verbatim. Your posts reveal your stance.
  20. 1 point
    Calvary

    Should I Be A Channel?

    But the thread had nothing to do with tithing until you inserted your hobby horse soap box. You already ruined the thread and forced yet another thread into your anti tithe mantra, that seems to be the case with you in almost every thread your post on. I for one am just plain tired of hearing about your obsession. It is clear to me and to many others on this site that your heart is obviously hard against giving. You slander, you cavil, you mis quote, you falsely accuse just about any one who even mentions any standard of giving. I read your blog the other day. You sir are seriously obsessed with money in general which simply tells me you are in fact consumed with greed. Out of the mouth comes the issues of your life. Money becomes a stumbling block for you, you constantly stalk this site for any whisper of giving and then you pounce upon any mention and berate any one who dares to suggest that tithing is a good place to start with regular giving. If I do tithe, it is in no way an OT law tithe. It could´t be, we are not obligated to any OT tithe. Tithe is simply 10% of what I have. A tithe is a simple mathematical equation to help one understand a percentage point of a given quantity. You have yet to produce one shred of evidence that any one on this site ever posted that tithing is an obligation for any Christian. I personally an just plain sick and tired of you and your endless tirades. Give it a rest. Trust God to lead a soul here without your 2 cents worth. You demonstrate very little grace, very little kindness and very little faith in God to lead His people (NOT YOURS!) in what He would have them do. I have said it before and i will say it again. Your spirit is miserly, your attitude is spiteful and you come across as an angry man very often. Whatever Bible knowledge you may posses, I wouldn´t give you the time of day to listen to it. There is no meekness in your tirades and endless belittling rem,arks. If I was the mod here, I´d simply ban you. Not because I cant handle the truth, (You have never heard me tell any one to tithe, and you never will) but simply due to your contentious spirit and quarrelsome nature. You are a lousy example of godliness, sir, and that is said with much charity. calvary I have stated several times before, I could care a whit what you do or don´t do with your goods.
  21. 1 point
    God has given us much instruction in His Word about marriage. Often either Christians have not read these instructions in His manual or listen to the world's solutions instead. Marriage is a triangle relationship between God, the husband, and wife, in that order. We must understand God before we can understand and relate in other relationships, especially marriage! Our marriages are an outer picture of our inner heart condition. Like a reflection of our relationship to Jesus Christ.
  22. 1 point
    TheSword

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Nevermind. If you can't see the explanation of principle in Irishman's exhaustive post then there's nothing else I can say to turn the light on for you. As a side note, if you dismiss or explain away everything that occurs only one time in Scripture you're not going to have much of a Bible left to work with.
  23. 1 point
    Steve Schwenke

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Irishman, good post. As an aside, not all dispensationalists go the same extremes as others. I am a dispensationalist, but I recognize the points you make as valid, and teach them myself. We do ourselves great disservice by dismissing the OT. I believe Romans 15:4 is the operative verse in this case. The OT has many great examples and admonitions that are still relevant today. What we all recognize (I hope) is the futility of keeping the Law in light of Christ's atonement for us. That does not mean we completely ignore everything in the Law - murder is still murder, sodomy is still sodomy, etc. Anyway, thanks for the input....
  24. 1 point
    Steve Schwenke

    Should I Be A Channel?

    I would not expect "tithing" to be in any confession of faith - not even a RCC confession or a protestant confession. Again, I think you have an incorrect view on what most IFB's teach on tithing. While many preach that a Christian should "tithe," NOBODY in the IFB movement that I know of teaches that a Christian loses their salvation if they do NOT tithe. The Law required a tithe, and the OT saints were required to keep the WHOLE LAW. I don't know of any IFB preacher that puts their congregation under the WHOLE LAW, and then tells them they will go to Hell if they do NOT tithe. Tithing is not essential to salvation, therefore to preach that a Christian should tithe is not "putting them under the law" as it is not a demand as much as it is a strong exhortation. If a church member is not kicked out for not tithing, and not threatened with the loss of salvation for not tithing, then any preaching on it is just that...strong exhortation, not Law. We agree that there is no direct NT statement that demands a tithe. We disagree on the practical application of the general principle of giving, where it starts, how it operates, and the example given to us in the OT. I myself read quite a bit of Baptist History. I will go back through my books, and look at this issue more specifically. I would be interested to know where you got the book by John Harvey Grime so that I can get a copy for my own perusal. Thanks, In Christ,
  25. 1 point
    The power of teacher unions affords teachers protections from rebuke and firing that most employees couldn't even dream of. They have so much power that it doesn't matter if the teacher is clearly in the wrong, the union backs them 100% just to show their power and put fear into others who may even think of challenging them. Someone put together a very good study of teacher salaries, comparing them to other job salaries, even taking into account local differences in cost of living and such, and even taking into consideration the complaint teachers and their union make of teachers having to take some work home with them, and found out that teachers are not only well paid, in comparison to not only similar education level and career paths, they could often be considered to be overpaid. The teachers have perks and benefits equal or better than anyone else, and that's on top of their pay. Teacher salaries in this area place teachers as having some of the best paying jobs around. Teachers and their unions constantly complain they need more pay, more money for the schools, more money for this and that. However, when one looks at the results of pouring more billions of dollars into the school system has had over the past several decades it should be obvious money isn't the answer. It's also interesting to note the school districts with the highest money to student ratio are the worst. Public education is an indoctrination complex where children are corrupted for a dozen or so years and a power base for teacher unions which translates into sure money and votes for liberal politicians. The system is a tool of the devil. Try sharing the Gospel with members of the teachers union and that becomes even more clear!
  26. 1 point
    One of the reasons they chose this guy as pope was because he's more progressive, not rigid conservative, someone they hoped would have broader appeal among secularized Catholics. Indeed, homosexuals, like all sinners, need to hear the Gospel, they don't need someone harping at them about one particular sin. All too often Christians approach homosexuals very differently than they do other sinners, and typically in a way not helpful to prepare them to receive the Gospel. If homosexuals don't get saved, then it wouldn't matter if they gave up practicing homosexuality today, they would still be just as lost. Even so, Christians often try to get homosexuals to change while they are still lost. May we share the Gospel with homosexuals and allow the Holy Ghost to do His part.
  27. 1 point
    LindaR

    Greetings & Salutations

    Welcome Montanabeliever!
  28. 1 point
    Pastor J, why a young man? Maybe there's an older fella, like Preacher Jerry whom the Lord called later in life? There was no sound church in my area so we moved 66 miles north. Being a member of a sound New Testament Church is more important than money, jobs, housing, etc.
  29. 1 point
    Am 8:11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: Am 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. That is where the United States is today. We are not always going to be able to find a good church in every location like we could have maybe 50 years ago. I had the same problem when we moved to Topeka, KS in 2004. I ended up having to drive 90 miles one way to get to a good church. I highly recommend to people now that before they move, they had better see if there is a good, quality, Bible Believing church in the area they are considering moving to. If not, then I advise to look elsewhere, or stay put.
  30. 1 point
    Well, Hollywood had Sons of Guns, then Sons of Anarchy, so this follows the same theme.
  31. 1 point
    It matters not what each of us believe but rather, what does God's Word say about such a topic, any topic?
  32. 1 point
    Not interested in a home church. I believe in the assemblying of believers.
  33. 1 point
    Sounds like you visited my area...
  34. 1 point
    Is this where we make our pledges? LOL
  35. 1 point
    irishman

    Please Pray For Our Son

    Brother, I will pray also. Don't despair, no one is above hope, and prayer moves the heart in a mighty way.
  36. 1 point
    Calvary

    Should I Be A Channel?

    Wow, another thread that does nothing to further the OP post. Another thread that does nothing to edify me. Another thread of trying to nail jello to the wall. It´s almost cultic the way this stuff carries on. So, back to the channel thing. Is this hymn now out of bounds?? How I praise Thee, precious Savior, That Thy love laid hold of me; Thou hast saved and cleansed and filled me That I might Thy channel be. Refrain: Channels only, blessed Master, But with all Thy wondrous pow’r Flowing through us, Thou canst use us Every day and every hour. Just a channel full of blessing, To the thirsty hearts around; To tell out Thy full salvation All Thy loving message sound. Emptied that Thou shouldest fill me, A clean vessel in Thy hand; With no pow’r but as Thou givest Graciously with each command. Witnessing Thy pow’r to save me, Setting free from self and sin; Thou who boughtest to possess me, In Thy fullness, Lord, come in. Jesus, fill now with Thy Spirit Hearts that full surrender know; That the streams of living water From our inner self may flow. I always liked that hymn. God bless, calvary
  37. 1 point
    I heartily agree!!! And what is so sad is that men really could understand women if they just tried. Sure, they won't ever completely understand everything about their wife anymore than they completely understand everything about anyone else. But the point is, the Bible commands husbands to dwell with their wives according to knowledge. The problem goes much deeper than points of view, mind sets, or any other of the many excuses I've heard. It all comes back to the same thing, and that is selfishness. We get so wrapped up in ourselves that we don't take the time to listen to our spouse. Men, stop being guys and start being gentlemen. Listen to your wife. Consider how she feels. TALK TO HER! The majority of arguments come from both sides refusing to hear the other persons opinion. You are not God and therefore are not always right. I fear that we as men think we can guide our houses in our own power. Lets remember who our Guide is and what He said. "Dwell with them according to knowledge." That is a high calling! But remember that you cannot dwell with your wife according to knowledge if you refuse to know anything about her.
  38. 1 point
    If you take time to read the instructions doesn't that just wastes valuable time?
  39. 1 point
    We are also called to "be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another even as God, for Christ's sake, hath forgiven you." Something that many people forget in their zeal to prove their point...(and I include myself in there - we have all done it, and it is wrong).
  40. 1 point
    Matthew 7:20 (KJV) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. We are called to be fruit inspectors. Proverbs 18:7 (KJV) A fool's mouth [is] his destruction, and his lips [are] the snare of his soul. Matthew 15:19 (KJV) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
  41. 1 point
    Very simple. Up until the last 50 years or so, even with certain elements of professing Christianity "falling away" into apostacy, there was always a remnant left that remained true to the word of God. It is quite clear from our historical records that there were heated debates and persecutions that revealed the REAL CHristians from the false. There was a stark contrast between the TRUE CHristians and false. But today, the lines are very unclear. Even in our professing "Bible Believing" ranks, people are apostacizing. They are falling away into worldliness, sloppy methods, sloppy doctrine. Those who were once bold in the Biblical faith are waning. When the truly saved Christians have no regard for the word of God or holiness - well, that is a universal apostacy. It is worldwide, if the accounts from my missionary friends are true. Look, even the BEST of preachers today are worldly to some degree or another. The BEST of our preachers today have compromised on some point. We are in the last days, and there is nothing we can do to stop it, or keep ourselves out of it. The best that we can do is not good enough to keep ourselves our or congregations from being tainted to some degree or another.... Just look at this forum! We are debating the virtues of ALCOHOL and ROCK MUSIC!!! Can't you see where we are in these last days! When God's people are arguing about how far they can take their LIBERTIES, you know we are in an apostate age. They seem to have forgotten this verse: 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Preachers in OUR CIRCLES (IFB) don't preach against sin, the world, the flesh, or false religions or false churches anymore (they don't want to "offend" any visitors!!!) Our churches were KNOWN for denouncing false religion - loudly and openly. But it takes a CHARISMATIC nut (Terry Jones) to have enough guts to burn the Koran. Where are the Baptists??? Terry Jones had enough courage to challenge the Muslims OPENLY in Dearborn, MI. Where are the Baptists??? Have we forgotten that it was US - Bible Believing Baptists - who led the charge to religious liberty in the Colonial Era? But we have gotten so involved in our own little world, that we seem to have lost our voice! The Baptists have gotten too swallowed up in having big buildings, lots of property, and Bible colleges. They won't go out on the street to preach openly anymore. They won't take a stand in their communities anymore. They all want a nice, polished, suave image, but they will not bear the reproach of their SAVIOUR in an OPEN, PUBLIC manner. They will CLAIM to believe the KJV, but in secret they don't - they go back to the GREEK and HEBREW to change the verses they don't like or understand, or that doesn't fit their little pet doctrines. That is an accurate description of OUR crowd. And when OUR crowd is THAT BAD, then the rest of Christianity is ready for the anti-Christ. He will swallow up TBN, Benny Hinn, and the rest of those fakirs so fast, and they will WELCOME him. Yep. one word. APOSTATE. Indeed - the great "falling away" is here, and I don't mean "the rapture."
  42. 1 point
    Balderdash. The KJV has it right. Hebrews 6:6- If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. This is the only other time the phrase "fall away" is used in the NT.
  43. 1 point
    Hey guys! Check out the trailer for my new book! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqOtsavXOBI&feature=youtu.be
  44. 1 point
    revivedbygrace

    [Movie] Sheffey

    I just watched this last night. It was a very good movie about an apalachian circuit preacher named Robert Sheffey. I loved this movie and feel it has something for everyone. This is an older movie that was made by Bob Jones university. I believe it was based on a book titled "A saint in the wilderness" or it might have been "Saints in the wilderness".
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