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Showing content with the highest reputation on 02/17/2013 in all areas

  1. 2 points

    Answer To A Roman Church Member

    Comments were from OB's "Messenger" (Personal Messaging) You're under a misconception. My posts are 90% from the Holy Spirit, the KJB, and me. I do quote other like minded people from time to time but, I prefer what God has shown me. Also, I may quote some authors which some seem to disapprove of but only to provide clarity or drive a point home. Read all of my past posts on the Roman Church, you'll find they are original and you won't find them on the internet, unless my name is with them. What I’ve learned is primarily from scripture. My understanding of the Roman Church never came from a pulpit; it came from study and experience. My first close encounter with a priest from the Roman Church was in the Navy. I went to the Chaplains to discuss a personal matter and was introduced to this "priest." He was smoking a cigarette and arguing with another person in their office about some trivial matter. I told him I preferred to speak to the protestant Chaplain (since the majority of my religious experience from a "non-United" Church of Christ). The priest told me, he had a lot more education than the Protestants but, he would get one for me. I asked him what he thought of the Revelations (note the 's' on Revelation). His reply is one I will never forget; it came with such casual indifference, commonplace air, and arrogance, I believe my jaw would have hit the floor if it could. He snuffs his cigarette in an ash tray as he walks toward a back office and turns to say, "Everyone on earth would be much better off if John had died on that island never having written a word." I had no idea at that time John received the Revelation of Jesus Christ on an Island, nor did I know that Revelation was not Revelation(s). But I knew instantly what the Roman Church was. I’ve attended Roman Church services many times since enlisting in the Navy. Once I was a stand-in "god parent" for an infant Baptism (I couldn't be a 'god parent' because I wasn't a Roman Church member). At the time I was attending a Pentecostal/Holiness/???? Church and they hoped I would “speak in tongues,” which is another story in and of it’s self. I most recently attended a Christmas Mass/children's play, about 5 years ago. I have no intention of discussing the reason why I was there; suffice it to say that I was present. It was a dimly lit building, with all the traditional Roman dogmatic iconography and statuary hanging around. I recall the statuary appeared to move in the flickering candle light, like gargoyles peering in and out to insure everything met with their approval. Of course the children were very cute. Afterward, the priest had his short homily followed by wine and bread shared amongst the deceived. After the end of the homily, as if in jest, he made an off color remark about Baptists (he didn't know I was there). It was in poor taste and offensive except to all the laughing giggling parishioners. I expected something like this from the Romans, having studied the inquisitions in detail from religious and secular accounts. I've attended other reformation churches besides the Pentecostal; including Methodist, Presbyterian, and United Church of Christ (no accompaniment music). I suppose I've related all the Roman Church experience to let you know I've seen and walked some distance on “your side” and it is purely apostasy and fallacy. Roman Church methods can’t defeat those who possess God’s Holy Spirit. The only thing we need to discuss is why you've not opened up to the Holy Spirit and allowed Christ to fill a noticeable void. It wasn't until I was in my thirties that I met some Christians who were sincerely pursuing God’s truth. They attended an IFB Church; I don’t mind giving a plug for the church, it was Tabernacle Baptist Church, Virginia Beach, Va. (look them up on the internet). I went to church at the invitation of these men who by the way worked for me. From the pulpit I heard and understood God’s simple plan of salvation, not the very first time I attended, but after several times attending. I received Christ as my personal Savior on Nov. 9 1980, which is 8 days after my physical birth date…Amen! A few weeks later I followed my salvation with obedience to the Lord through believer’s baptism. I'm not sure what you've attended; even though you speak of IFB roots, whatever that is, that isn't Biblical. You missed it somewhere, because you are to be rooted in Christ alone. If you missed the Holy Spirit calling during the (I presume) many attended services; then it was not because God didn't want to save you. Possibly you hardened your heart when you turned to the Roman Church dogma. A high % of the messages from IFB Church pulpits involve exposition concerned with man’s salvation through Jesus Christ alone. The IFB Churches I've attended teach... "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15 Notice scripture doesn't say to submit yourself for approval by a church. I took them up on it and have studied and compared religion for decades. The dogma from the Roman Church comes no where close to what God’s Holy Word teaches. I believe your misconception runs much deeper than thinking my posts were parroted dogma; parroting may be a Roman Church member’s option; however, IFB Church members study God’s word. I never had the advantage you tell me you had. I didn't have the foundation of truth from an IFB Church laid out in front of me; only to reject it for Roman Church dogma. Melchizedek, if you’re still peering in above is the answer I promised you.
  2. 2 points

    Is A Mohawk Sin?

    Just wanted to throw something out here: Growing up between two vastly different cultures ( Amish and English - loooong twisted story lol) I didn't understand a lot of the things about how my plain side lived and the other side of the family lived another. It was very confusing at such a young age. I don't remember much about what I asked or was confused about but what I do remember is my adopted parents trying their best to explain. Plus I got a chance at that early stage of life to understand what conviction and discipline was. Kids are better off with an honest "no" then a "yes" out of complacency,trust me.
  3. 2 points

    Questions On Music

    And once it has infiltrated the church, many other things will fall.
  4. 1 point

    Signs Before Jesus Comes

    It's the Jews that require signs, the Christian isn't looking for signs, however Paul did mention the times and the seasons that we shouldn't be ignorant of. We know we are in the last of the last days, that wickedness in the the world is increasing, that the uniting of the nations is getting closer to a one world order...these are things we know and that should encourage us to be ready, waiting, and looking...not for signs, but looking for our Blessed Hope who could come at any time without warning, amen.
  5. 1 point
    Indeed this makes much sense! How easy it is for us to see that our wives are to submit to us and for us to see when they are not, but to easily miss, or ignore, the fact we are to be submitted to Christ and we are not doing so! Without a doubt I know from my own experience that the closer I have drawn to Christ over the years the more my love for my wife has deepened and matured. Often I will take time to thank God for giving me such a love for my wife that I once never even knew was possible. There is so much more to loving our wives than the emotional aspect or even the belief that we would die for our wives. It's rather easy to say we would jump between our wives and an angry grizzly bear, willing to die to save our wives, but we truly show our love when we humble ourselves and wash the dishes just because we love our wife. It took some years for me to learn that one!
  6. 1 point

    False Teachers

    Ukulelemike said: "Iron sharpeneth iron, but I believe when questions are stifled, learning ceases and the iron instead blunts. That's my poetic waxing for today." Thumbs up! (pretend it is an emoticon)
  7. 1 point
    I think this thread has gone it's course. Thanks to all who participated
  8. 1 point
    Then end of our 2nd Amendment says, "...shall not be infringed". There shouldn't be a need for a license. It's another chip away at our liberties. The criminal who has served his time should not have selective rights restored. All should be restored. This too is a chip away of liberty for all. The violent criminal as you describe should either stay in jail until natural death or make a quick trip to the gallows.
  9. 1 point
    I ran out of likes for today and I just love this post! It's how I came to the truth as well! Answering a question with a question? How about answering my question? Sir, the Scriptures say you're a fool: From the book of John, Chapter 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." The following verses describe your visit with us thus far: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." - 2 Timothy 3:7
  10. 1 point
    Eric Stahl

    Do You Sin?

    Do you sin? Romans 7:14-25 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 4:6-8 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. When you sin God charges it to you flesh and old nature not to your spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Our sleeping (dead) bodies must wait in the grave till Jesus comes at the resurrection. He will remove our sin nature and our body will go up to meet Jesus in the air where our spirits with their new spiritual bodies will be put on over our earthly bodies as a coat. The two bodies become one body with our spirit in it. 2 Corinthians 5:4 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
  11. 1 point

    Montana Says Hi!

    Totally forgot to do a more personal intro. I'm a 30 year old housewife, lots of hobbies and interests. Love Bible study,reading,cooking and gaming. Love making friends and having conversations and debates so I'm sure I'll fit in here a bit. I was Old Order Amish until it came time to take baptism.I was saved a few years later, winding up in an Adventist church with my husband before leaving for the local Baptist church. Really don't know what to say but that. lol.
  12. 1 point
    I know this is my first comment in this thread, but I have been greatly edified by it. When Brother Dave referenced Ephesians 5:22, something struck me that I had never thought of before. I have read that particular verse many, many times and I was blinded to this simple truth because of my pride. The wife is commanded to submit to her husband as unto the Lord, and as Brother Dave pointed out, husbands are called to love their wife as Christ loved the church. I have struggled with this concept because my definition of 'love' was not the same as the Bible definition of 'love'. I would tell my wife that I love her every day, do nice things for her, and the like; but I had always maintained somewhat of an emotional distance from her. I would like to say that it was due to how I dealt with being separated from her when I went on deployments, and that I had allowed it to stick around even after I had gotten back, but that is not the case. I realized that I had (have) a pride issue. I felt that I deserved her submission because of this passage. I think a lot of Christian men fall into the same trap. The thought that I had was this: I had a submission issue as well. I was demanding that my wife submit to me, but I was refusing to submit myself to Christ by fully following His teachings. What I had done was effectively picked out what parts fit best for me, and conveniently forgot the rest. I thank God that the Holy Spirit convicted me of this! Blinded by my pride, I had placed my marriage in a place where a lesser person would have left me years ago! Thank you Lord, for blessing a doofus like myself with a wife that loves You more than me! (I hope doofus doesn't offend anybody, if it does let me know and I will remove it). By learning to submit myself to Christ, I learned to love her the way that Christ told me to. I hope that this all makes sense, as I am a little tired at the moment! I hate it when I feel like I'm just rambling. Brother Markel, thanks for hosting this thread, and I look forward to growing as a husband.
  13. 1 point

    C. S. Lewis + Sword Of The Lord

    I found it rather interesting that in the same Sword of the Lord which denounces Lewis and admonishes separation from him, they quoted the unsaved Lincoln several times, and not only was he a lost sinner, he held some anti-Christian views and his disregard for the Constitution set the stage for abuse of power and growth of the federal government which is clearly the enemy of Christ.
  14. 1 point

    Questions On Music

    If a Christian strictly sticks with hymns and spiritual songs based on scripture, he'll do well. There's music for the spirit and there's music for the flesh, we know the difference instinctively and are commanded to put the flesh to death and not fulfil its lusts, so no fleshy music. A majority of music in this world is fleshly and Satanic, so have nothing to do with it. It's a challenge to find godly spiritual music, but it's out there.
  15. 1 point

    Do You Sin?

    Of course we still sin, a man is deceiving himself or indoctrinated with false teaching if he says he doesn't. If Paul, who was probably the greatest Christian who ever walked the earth, admitted he still sinned during his saved life then we are all in the same predicament! The following verse always humbles me, it puts sinning in God's eyes really into perspective: Proverbs 24:9 The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.
  16. 1 point
    A godly husband needs to fulfil his God ordained position as the head of his wife. 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. I think many husbands neglect or ignore their position as head and the woman ends up taking over because someone has to do it, of course this is opposing God's will, it is the way of the world. When a Christian husband steps up and takes leadership like he should then it pleases his wife, for she is wanting him to do it, wanting him to 'play the man' and 'wear the pants' in their home. Satan doesn't want this, that's why he's so busy trying to reverse the roles in the home in these last days, he's quite successful at it too!
  17. 1 point
    Here are eight miscellaneous bits of advice for anyone involved in local church ministry. Don’t try to build a great church; purpose to build great people. My goal has never been to build a large church, but to grow and edify people. Numeric growth doesn’t always speak to the spiritual health of the people in the church. Pour your life into people. Love them, encourage them, disciple them. Sunday’s success begins before Sunday! To me, every day leads to Sunday. Tuesday’s preparation is vital for Sunday’s success. To be ready to minister to God’s people on Sunday, I must be engaged in ministry—soulwinning, sermon and lesson preparation, prayer, etc.—all week long. I have told our staff, you can gauge how fully your heart is in local church ministry by how frequently you connect what you do throughout the week to Sunday. People will follow leadership more than they will listen. The Sunday school teacher can talk about soulwinning, prepare thoroughly researched lessons about evangelism, and deliver passionate pleas for the state of those without Christ. But if he never goes soulwinning and never leads people to Christ, his lessons will fall on deaf ears. People do what people see. Be a grace-giver, not a score-keeper. Refuse to hold grudges. When someone has rubbed you the wrong way, when they’ve deliberately hurt you, drop the offense. When you are in ministry, you can’t afford to limit the Holy Spirit’s work in your life. God’s given you grace; give some to others. There is tremendous potential in the church. Ministry isn’t about a few people doing all the work of a local church. It is about equipping the members of a local church to do the work of the ministry (Ephesians 4:12). To do this, you must involve people. Love them, believe in them, train them, and invite them to serve alongside you. Don’t limit people from their potential to serve. Don’t be a lone ranger. It is sometimes easier to just do a job yourself—the first time. But in the long run, it is better for you and for those you serve if you develop a team around you to help with projects. This is how biblical growth can take place. Also, the ministry will be broader and better when you share it with others. Godly moments have life-changing potential. I believe that God can change the course of a life in a moment. One Sunday night service, one week at teen camp, one statement in a Sunday school lesson—the Holy Spirit can use His Word to penetrate a heart and work eternal change. This makes every message important; and it makes me purposefully encourage people to expose themselves to the preaching and teaching of God’s Word. The church is Christ’s, not mine. In one sense, we should cultivate an “ownership mentality” for assigned areas of ministry. That is to say we should be personally invested, responsible, and accountable. But in truth, we are only stewards of the ministry. The church is Christ’s, not ours. The finances, buildings, people—all of it belongs to God. I want all I do to bring honor to Him! Related posts: Multiply Ministry: Don’t Do It Alone New Podcast Posted: The Partnerships of Ministry New Podcast Posted: Reigniting Soulwinning Fervor in the Local Church View the full article
  18. 1 point
    A few thoughts - husbands and wives MUST both be committed to serving God in their marriage. It is a partnership and union. For it to be at it's best, both husband and wife must be committed to the Lord and each other - God's way. God instituted marriage and it would make sense that He would have an opinion and some advice for it. Ephesians 5 is one place we find this advice. In that chapter we are given some commands from God for firstly the bride, and then for the groom, and then we are given the purpose for marriage. Verse 22 speaks to the wife. Ephesians 5:22 (KJV) 22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Many people are offended by this concept of submission but they don're understand it nor put it into proper context. To put it simply it means that the wife is to totally dedicated and commited to her husband. He is to be number one in her life, only after God and none other placed before him. That means wife, that whatever situation you find yourself in, your very first thoughts should be about how it will relate to and affect your husband. This will be made so much easier though if the husband also obeys the command to husbands which is found in verse 25 Ephesians 5:25 (KJV) 25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; If you the husband will love his wife then it will be easy for her to submit to you. Actually husband, the command to you is much harder than to the wife, as we are not talking about romantic love, but Bible love as it is described in 1 Corinthians 13. That is where God talks about true Bible love and He says that you need to love your wife like that - with patience and kindness, not envious, nor proud, not badly behaved, nor selfish, not quickly angry, nor jumping to conclusion, not happy to see her sin, but rather to be happy to see her in righteousness, and loving her with truth, always supportive, always trusting, ALWAYS THERE! You see you are to hold her also in the prime place of your life, after God alone and none else. You both are commanded to hold the other in first place among men, with only God to stand higher. And these are commands, not suggestions. And the reason for this is found in verse 31 and following. Ephesians 5:31-33 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church . Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love you wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Your marriage is to be an example to everyone around of the love displayed by God in sending His Son to die for our sins, and also of the reverence for Christ of sinners who are trusting God's loving provision for our salvation. When people see your marriage they should be prompted to wonder at your love and respect for each other, and see that it springs forth out of your love and commitment to Christ.
  19. 1 point
    Yes, I know what you think of the Trail of Blood, but when your interested in the real truth, read it. To be honest the majority of people stand against it, but that does not surprise me the least bit. Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. The majority of people are gathered around the broad wide gate, that's where all the action is taking place. People just naturally feel safer when they're gatherer together with the majority of people, so they tend to make their way to where all the actions is taking place. There's not many people gathered around the strait narrow gate, there's just not enough action taking place, that just ins't the least bit appealing to worldly people. So sad, the majority of people are headed to eternal destruction. But as long as they have breath they can repent, & be in that number that will go though that strait narrow gate which leadeth unto life. And sadly, many saved people run with the world, the lost people, much as Lot did. And their witness is only as good as Lots was, who seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law. Ge 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
  20. 1 point
    No doubt, back in that day the Catholics tried to wipe out Jesus' New Testament Churches. They tried their best, but you cannot win when you fight against God. IF, that is IF, they had succeed there would not be none of us Baptist around today. For that was the people they hated. Our forefathers would not accept their baptizing, would not accept infant baptizing, because of that along with the refusal to convert many faithful believers were drug out of their houses, & told they would die if they refused to convert. Those that refused were beaten, stoned, & burned at the stake. They also tried their best to destroy all records of us, & went so far as to try & rewrite history. They wanted to wipe us totally out of the history books wanting to become "The Church," trying to make it so that anyone wanting to know about God would have to come to them. They did not know God in those days, & they still do not know God, they're a very evil bunch & if they thought they could get by with it they would go back to trying to kill us off the face of this earth. They would love nothing better than to rule the world. Their father is the devil, & they do the works of their father. If there are any saved people within the Roman Catholic Church God says to them, "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
  21. 1 point

    Questions On Music

    Many churches have built a church around music, not a church around Christ. For instants a church right down the road from me. They have much singing, but only about 15 to 20 minutes of preaching services, & no Sunday school classes. I believe if it were not for the music, the rodeo arena, & short sermons, hardly anyone would be present. The local paper has interviews several of its members, most of them say they could not & never fit in in any regular churches that had normal services. And I can see why.
  22. 1 point

    Acoustic Guitars Ok?

    We have a full orchestra in our church - and the music is beautiful. There are no guitars in the orchestra, acoustic or otherwise, and I think that's the personal preference of our pastor. There are people in our church who play guitar, and they use it in nursing home, etc. It isn't the instrument that is the problem. It's the way it's played. Just as in everything in life...
  23. 1 point
    Dr James Ach

    Acoustic Guitars Ok?

    I just had this debate with someone on another forum and the issues on Biblical precedent on music appear to be adiophora. I think it is the exact opposition that those trained in music are the most critical. I think that those who understand it are less likely to condemn much of what the IFB considers sensual and devilish. Considering the proscriptions given in Psalm 150 there is very little Biblical evidence against much of the music that IFB condemns, which is why it is normally shelved in an adiophoric category because there's a lot of Biblical gymnastics that one must accomplish in order to make "make no provision for the flesh" fit every single condemnation of contemporary Christian music. I have played guitar since I was about 6 years old. I grew up playing classical music, in the early 80s was in a rock band. There was a rock guitar player named Yngwie Malmsteen that influenced my playing because he turned Beethoven into heavy metal. So even classical music was for me a bridge into the world of heavy metal. The issues that I have with contemporary music aren't the instruments, per say, but the doctrinal issues in the lyrics and I think that is the strongest argument against contemporary music instead of attacking issues that the laymen has no clue what you're talking about. The debate on another forum was that contemporary Christian music relies heavily on the dominance of successive 7 chord progressions. See, you are already going "huh??" (My personal favorite was the Phrygian Dominant Minor progression ) You will find a lot of new age and charismatic doctrine within most of the contemporary Christian music and for that reason alone, I would avoid the majority of it. And in theory, there are musical progressions that in other cultures would be offensive. Japan uses the "Ioto" scale which is mostly a minor progression. Greece and even Israel use a form of the Dorian and Harmonic Minor scale, and most of the music that is described as acceptable practiced in the OT were based on scales that in today's conservative circles would be condemned. Even in the analogy used about the 7 chords, there are numerous hymns that incorporate the same progression, Victory in Jesus, How Great Thou Art, Amazing Grace ( "[G] Amazing grace, how [G7]sweet the sound"[G], that saved a wretch like me [D][D7]), Just A Closer Walk With Thee, all classic hymns that have a heavy 7 chord influence. If making no provision for the flesh meant no moving your feet, or hands, then there should never be a conductor in front of a choir keeping the time for the choir. If all things are to be done decently and in order, then it is impossible to play music that is in order, without keeping the correct timing, and that timing has a specific beat syncopation, whether it's 4/4, 3/4 etc..and most musicians you see "tapping their feet" are not doing so to pleasure the flesh, but are doing so to stay in time with the phrases. A guitar is the same instrument as a piano with less strings. In fact, a piano is closer to a worldly instrument than an acoustic guitar because a piano uses the same type of hammer to strike the string as a drum kit uses to strike the bass drum. So a piano is both a stringed instrument and percussion. The problem with music is that music is like food, it is a matter of taste. I hate to use a worldly example, but in my heathen days, I could not stand Jimi Hendrix. I thought he was sloppy. I was a more technical musician. But others thought he was phenomenal. There are hymns that I love and other hymns I would pay good money to never be sung again in church. What the fundamentalists have attempted to do is create a Biblical doctrine that covers TASTE and apply it accross the board, and that just can't be done (which is part of what makes the debate adiaphora When the Bible is quoted "Make no provision for the flesh" most fundamentalists stop right there, but that's not what the whole verse says, the rest of it says "To FULLFUL THE LUSTS THEREOF". There are some standards which DO cut across the board, and doctrinal correctness should be one of them which eliminates MOST of the contemporary Christian songs, but to single out individual instruments, even drums in some cases, is erroneous and can't be done with out extrapolating personal bias and opinion into Scripture where it doesn't belong.
  24. 1 point
    The Ohio Patriot

    Acoustic Guitars Ok?

    Are we saying then that the type of instrument is responsible for corrupting peoples minds? This runs along the same philosophy concerning other things I have seen posted here. The same type of argument is used by the government concerning guns, they are dangerous because they have a pistol grip, or a large magazine. Get rid of guns and crime will magically go away. How is that working for those who have implemented it. Consider three items, a gun, a trampoline and a Rottweiler. All are considered by your insurance companies as severe risks. Yet a trampoline can not chase you down the road and attack you, nor can it stand up on it's legs and shoot projectiles at you. I have had several dogs, German Shepherds who are as gentle as lambs. The dogs can't harm you from across the room and chances are if you fell off the top of one of them, you would not suffer any major injuries. Now, consider an AR-15, what does it take for it to be dangerous to a civilian? It takes a man with a heart problem. The gun on it's own is inanimate and can do nothing. What I am really blabbering about is what is at the heart of the issue with instruments..... I contend it is man, and a heart problem. It is not the instrument, though some can be used more effectively to alter our minds. Don't get me wrong I am with most here, that music is a serious issue and needs to be handled by our church. It is not the instrument itself, but just like a gun, a dog or a trampoline, it is how it is used.
  25. 1 point

    Acoustic Guitars Ok?

    Stating the truth is not going liberal. If you are going to remove everything from the church that has a wordly association then you are going to have to empty much of the church and the folks in the church are going to have be wearing some very odd clothes. Separation is a matter of separating from sin, not separating from things that are neither good nor bad. The concept of high heels on womens shoes whether a couple inches or five inches is to enhance the appeal of their legs, accentuate their behind and sensualize their walk. Are you going to go around the church telling all the women wearing heels to be rid of their shoes? Your standards of what's acceptable in church was once rejected by previous generations of Christians. Who was right, you or them; or in some cases is it a matter of preference or conscience? When I hear a piano playing a hymn I don't think of bars, when I hear a guitar (whether accoustic or electric) playing a Christian song I don't think of rock or country music, when a church has an orchestra playing Christian music I'm not thinking of the evil ways every instrument there has or can be used. We are called to pursue Christ and personal holiness in our lives first but that seems to be cast aside by most as a last thought. We spend far more time worrying about what instruments the church down the block might be playing hymns on, or what law some politician will push effecting guns or the continual ungodly things occuring in public schools than we do actually pursuing an ever growing personal relationship with the Lord.
  26. 1 point

    Women's Authority

    God has established an order, within the family, and within the church. In both places, a man has been placed as the head. The requirements of a bishop, (pastor), as well as a deacon, is to be the 'husband of one wife'. Now, let's set aside the 'one wife' aspect, as that's being covered in another thread-but how about 'husband'? A woman cannot be a husband, no mater what lasw this crazy country may pass. Thus, these positions are assigned to men. Women cannot teach the men in the context of the assembly. However, a woman CAn teach a man outside the assembly, particularly in training new believers or giving the gospel, as we see Priscilla and Aquila did with Apollos. Though in such a case, it would be best if it was done in conjunction with their husband. I agree with Heartstrings though, in that women are very wise, as well, and can be of great help. My wife has helped me grow, both as a Christians and a pastor. She is a great help when we go to one of our church family's house each week for Bible study-I do the primary study, but she comes up with lots where I might miss something. But she agrees that in the church, she has no place doing such. .
  27. 1 point

    Women's Authority

    Clear examples? Real examples in a New Testament Church? No. Best follow the instructions given. Really, God has a good reason for this. 1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1Pe 3:1 ¶ Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, That they may teach the young women, not young men, & not old men.
  28. 1 point

    Kj Bible College

    To answer the question directed at me. God promises to preserve His Word to all Generations. I believe that God has done this through the KJV. I do not consider MV's the preserved Word of God as they come from corrupted Greek/Hebrew manuscripts. I use Greek and Hebrew helps because when you translate from one language to another, things are lost in translation. Just as the 16th century English to modern English has significant changes in the meaning of the words. If you read simple verses like John 3:16 in Engllish, Spanish and French, you will find that they don't all say exactly the same words. We just had someone sing in Spanish at our church and had someone translate. There are Spanish Words that don't translate well to English and vice versa. The same is true with Greek to English. There are Greek Words that do not translate well to English. There are Greek Words that were tranliterated instead of translated. I do believe that a modern version is needed, but will never happen because those who are capable of doing the translation work, are not willing and those who are willing, use the corrupted manuscripts. I consider Peter Ruckman's position on the KJV complete Heresy. The KJV is preserved Word of God. God did not inspire the translators in the 1600's when they translated the Bible into 17th Century English. I do not find him funny. I find him to be a false teacher.
  29. 1 point

    Kj Bible College

    My alma mater (PCC) uses the KJV exclusively. Though I do not recommend PCC for Preacher Boy's. I took 4 years of Greek while in college. I do use a lexicon, a greek-English Dictionary from the late 1800's. I believe that the KJV is the preserved Word of God for English speaking people, but every time a translation is made, things are lost in the translation. I find that the Websters dictionary is almost as good as a lexicon, but grammar and words in Greek can help you understand why the translators did what they did.
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