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  1. Today
  2. Hi Salyan. Thanks for your reply. Your last point is what I was intending to convey, that of pastoral visits. In the past (19th century) People used to walk vast distances to church. Samuel Eyles Pierce rote in his memoires that on Christmas Eve 1813 he walked a fair distance into London, caught the stage to Maidstone (not a comfortable journey I should think as there were no made up roads) then walked to Faversham about 26 miles, preached twice the next da, and three times the following day, "It being the Lord's Day" then walked 10 miles to Canterbury for the new year. 5 years later he founded the first Baptist Church in Faversham. In the mid 1840's Jonathan Reeves of Rochester wrote that he was planning to walk to Faversham from his home , about 17 miles, to hear a particular at the Baptist Church. He and his friend got up at 6.00 am but it was such heavy rain that they had to delay their departure. Eventually they had to call their trip off as the heavy rain continued. Some time after I read that I read elsewhwere that with his mum he walked from Rochester to Faversham to hear William Huntington preach. As Huntigton died when Jonathan was about 11 and was not in good health for his last two years, he musyt have been quite young when he made those journeys. There is also an account that the pastor of a baptist church in the village of Egerton in Kent used to walk from his home in Sheerness to the chapel and back every Lord's day, a distance it is said was 20 miles. I looked it up on Via Michelin and that said the distance was more than that. My wife had a friend whose grandmother used to walk large distances to services, not because they were poor, but because they refused to pay a fare on Sunday. Having thought of that I guess I should perhaps withdraw my previous post.
  3. Yesterday
  4. You said it better than I could. There's nothing morally or Biblical wrong with presenting the Word of God in a "soft spoken" manner. by a more refined "city guy" type man. I've heard great Bible preachers expound the scriptures that way. As well there's nothing wrong with a "rough", country backwoods "tough" man or "former marine" type either; I've heard great preaching from them too. Where either goes wrong is when pride or scorn rear their ugly heads up and, unfortunately, I've seen that from both "types".. Not good. Rebuke (in love) when it's needed, but just don't forget that God commands us to "exhort" too.
  5. Indeed, I believe that a false definition/description for "effeminate" has been presented. Therefore, this thread discussion has begun with confusion. This is one of the reasons that I asked for a more precise listing of those characteristics (in demeanor and behavior) which might be Biblically viewed as those exclusively for women, and never for men. (Note: If we consider the actual teaching of God's Holy Word, meekness certainly CANNOT be one of these characteristics.)
  6. Consider that the context of the effeminate passage which lists those who are "abusers of themselves with mankind" directly after effeminate. Wouldn't it make more sense to define effeminate as the transvestite types, trannies or the flamboyant homosexuals whom purposely wear make up/clothing to appear feminine and not the purposely meek and humble men who look like men but rather follow Christ's example and not Adam's anymore? 2 Tim 2: 24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. (I can list many like this all true to their contexts) There is the Biblical answer, these who puff themselves up as harsh, manly men in the name of Christ, are simply not the true servants of Christ. They serve another father unwittingly through the pride and lusts of the flesh....mammon is not money only, recognition and making a name for oneself is also mammon. They deceive themselves but still have time to repent if they would turn from using God's Word as merely a reference for their "theology" and feed on it daily as the BREAD OF LIFE.
  7. I can't recall being in a church where an "effeminate man" preached from the pulpit. I have heard some relatively soft-spoken ones, I suppose, but wouldn't label them effeminate. The original poster seems to be trying to convey that if a man doesn't yell from the pulpit, he isn't being manly. If so, I disagree. But I just haven't been around any sissy preachers to be able to relate to this topic. Maybe Joel Osteen is like this? But even false teachers, get all red-faced, run the pews, pound the pulpit and scream. Some are pretty tough guys!
  8. I guess it depends whether your distance precludes you from being regularly involved (as in, are you willing to drive there a lot?). That could depend a lot on where you live, too. City people are less likely to drive into the country, but country folk can be used to driving 1-2 hours to get to town/church. (That's a Canadian assessment; I noticed that in England acceptable distances seem shorter. I visited a church that was a 1.5 hour commute away from my hotel. That's a bit of a way in Canada (I wouldn't want to drive it every week), but we've had church members that regularly drove that far or further. The pastor there, though, seemed to be quite surprised that I had come so far to attend). I think a pastor needs to be closer, though. Although some people around here do drive 1-2 hours to work everyday (crazy)!
  9. I hate to interject myself here but it just hit me square in the face. Someone has a very limited knowledge in the Inerrant Word of God. Judas did not directly buy the field. The money was blood money and could not be placed back into the treasury. The potters field was purchased with the money by the Priests. It was still blood money and it still belonged to Judas. The priests had to do something with the money and they purchased the potters field with it. There is a lot of preaching in this passage and when it is all said and done the KJB is in perfect harmony here. As far as the divorce laws, there is perfect harmony here as well. Christ himself said; Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. That is what is wrong today. Hard hearts that will not except he true and inerrant WORD of God.
  10. Acts 7:18 talks about Moses being in the wilderness with the church. A church is a congregation. A biblical church congregates somewhere.
  11. I think that "local" church speaks more to the issue of "Universal" vs "Local, rather than distance. For instance, when I moved to the location I am now in it was mandatory that I live here, I had no choice. But I consider my church membership to be local simply because it is not part of any Universal movement. I drive 1 1/2 hours one way to go to church. There is one church pretty close to me, but it is a community church, which is a denomination and not a valid NT Church.
  12. This thread topic was about effeminate men, it has moved away from that to encompass men in a leadership role, women's place in marriage, clothing, etc. To me being effeminate is not about any of these things. Rather it is more about how a man thinks of himself, his speech being more like a female and even exaggerating the female speech patterns, it also encompasses such things as mannerisms being more female than male.
  13. This discussion of hard versus soft preaching is interesting. It is entangled with angry, indignant, meek, mild and weakness. Very confusing. But i know what works for me a listener. I want the preacher to focus on scripture and keep control over his emotions. If he occasionally slips into passion, ok. But as a preaching style, it feels a bit like being bullied. God’s wrath is legitimate, but the preacher is not God. I need to be admonished but not yelled at. I need to be taught and that requires objective analysis of scripture. I need to be inspired, and that requires positive emotions.
  14. Last week
  15. He set off to flee to Tarshish but didn't get there. He boarded the ship at Joppa, modern Jaffa.
  16. I suppose the same could be said for living miles away from the church that you are a member of. I would say that goes against the "local church".
  17. Here is one way to think about it. We seek to be obedient children of God but we will be imperfect. No one is good but God and He knows we will not reach his standard. That is why we need his grace. Anyway, we sincerely try to be good disciples but also we accept His forgiveness when we fall short. This is not an excuse for living a wild life. We keep striving toward the goal and we get better. Look in the rear view mirror. See how far we have come. Progress seems slow but the mile markers stack up.
  18. Salyan, I can see your point and cannot argue with the reasoning. Perhaps distance or frequent travel explain why some people attend a church occasionally without joining.
  19. The Bible talks about a local church, with pastor(s) deacons, answerable to God. It seems to me that a distant pastor and deacons would be unable to live with, serve and lead a congregation as they are supposed to. Any satellite churches would then, practically, need their own pastor, etc., and when they have a pastor, they are now a church in their own right and don't need to be a satellite! That's my thought on the issue, anyways.
  20. Umpqua Valley Christian School in Roseburg, OR is seeking a 5th Grade teacher! Needing as soon as possible because of a loss. Please contact Adam Armstrong at aarmstrong@uvcs.org Must have teaching degree for this fully accredited school.
  21. Great! That's the way it should be. Of course; some things should not be elaborated on, from the pulpit, any more than the Bible does. But such things, and others, need to be taught. That's why I believe, passages like Titus chapter 2 are there. Older, Godly, "sober minded" men in the churches are to teach young men how to behave and how to treat their wives and families, and the Godly older ladies are to do the same. It's Biblical and necessary. My wife and I presently attend a Sunday School class where a younger man than myself, with his wife beside him, teaches the class. His wife is a good lady, and I appreciate her very much, but she corrects her husband from time to time and then starts teaching herself. Nothing wrong with what she says (except when she corrects her husband) but I just can't see how that could be what God would want for a Sunday School class. I believe the old grey-haired men, who have some of the hard knocks of "life" under their belt should be teaching the younger men the things young men need to hear and the older ladies should be teaching the young ladies for the same reasons. But with the opposite sex in a class, some things that need to be taught, cannot be. Or shouldn't be. Am I making sense?
  22. Brother Wayne, I know a pastor who preaches both confrontation and commendation unto both the men and the women of the church at appropriate times and through appropriate passages. Indeed, I even know that that same pastor has preached on 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 in the public service of the church (carefully, yet publicly).
  23. I was taught, in church, that the reason that a family is out of order is solely the man's fault for not "leading". it was also taught, and still is, that if the husband will just "lead" the wife will "follow" and everything will be Ok, But common sense itself should tell anyone that isn't always the case. Under this teaching, the ladies were given flowers and praised for being great moms on Mother's Day, but whenever father's day rolled around the men were always castigated. After these sermons you left with a helpless feeling that, because of all the innate shortcomings of church-men. the only "real man" in the house was the pastor. Consequently I've also known wives to say things like "I'll submit when my husband learns to lead". That kind of attitude is certainly not what the Lord intended ladies to have but you can't place too much blame on them when they're hearing teaching which is nowhere to be found in the Bible. Paul, and Peter, on the other hand addressed BOTH genders in the same message and there was a reason for this. Even women are commanded to "lead". How so? Notice the next verse; If that is not "leading" I don't know what is. So, instead of having an attitude like "I'll submit to my 'hubby' when he mans-up and leads", the Bible plainly tells women to "submit" anyway. Are men ignorant or just afraid to preach this? And while we're on submission, I don't recall ever hearing anyone expounding much on stuff like 1 Corinthians 7:3-5. Wow! That one passage could save alot of marriages in this sad, wretched world. I know people have to want to change, but they need the whole counsel of God. Love feeds off of love. How? Wife submits to the husband and makes him want to love and honour her, conversely, the husband loves and honours the wife and makes her want to submit. If that cycle is broken, it's not time to quit. Fix it by doing your part anyway instead of sitting back and saying I'll do mine when they do theirs. What's the title to this topic. Oh yeah, effeminate men, I'll get back to that. The World demeans men and manliness every day and I've often wondered; has this hateful world taken away so much of the joy and honour of being a man, that it no longer appeals to many males? I'm not condoning effeminacy or anything; just an observation. But Christians are not to be like the World are we? No, we're supposed to build each other up, instead of tearing each other down. .God loves that. BTW, Our eldest son, just took our grandson to Kentucky last weekend on a deer hunt. At 11 years old he got his first deer with a crossbow, and 3 more with a rifle. Man-stuff.
  24. Wow! I was out for the whole day, and while I was gone this thread discussion exploded a bit. Brother Paul Christian, Throughout this thread discussion you have now said some things with which I have hearty agreement. However, you have also said some things with which I would have definite disagreement. Now, I do not present that in order to "stir the pot" in anyway, and I do not have any spirit of animosity. I had been pondering over the weekend whether to engage some of the earlier points of disagreement. However, I am now leaning away from doing so simply because so much conversation has proceeded.
  25. A church only has authority over what happens in church, but screwed up people tend to get better when the church does it's job. I disagree with marriage counselling in the church, because everybody has a bible, and it doesn't take long to point out the verses that should be sounded from the pulpit. They will either obey the bible or not. I have seen many defeated men in churches over the years. Their wives like to say that they had to take control because their husbands won't. The reality was that the woman would end the marriage if the husband stepped up. I've seen the women leave as well. When God doesn't allow remarriage while the spouse is alive, the men are faced with being defeated in their home, or being single until she dies. A man cannot assert his authority when the wife is not in obedience to God. He can only pray and wait. I've seen pastors get deep into people's personal lives in the process of marriage counselling, and because they would not preach and teach hard on God's family structure, it ended poorly, and with the church leadership stepping into the marriage where they ought not, even counselling the wife separately. I looked at it like the church leadership was committing spiritual adultery with another man's wife, because the man is the head of his wife, not leaders in the church. This was a non-denom church, but I'm sure baptists are not immune. I am remarried, and I know what it was now to remarry now, but I am blessed with a Godly wife and a life lacking the strife that I have seen and endured, and it is undeniably due to hard, biblical preaching, and having a common purpose in life that is well defined. I've seen women lead their husbands out of church when they heard things that they didn't like as well. You can mark that man as defeated.
  26. What goes wrong, in a church setting, is when some let the "fear and honour" turn in to "control".
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