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When Did Jesus Die

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50 minutes ago, Pastorj said:

I have always held to a Sunrise resurrection, which holds true to scripture. But I can understand your 3a-6a argument, but I would counter by saying 3a was the start of the 4th watch of the night (4 - 3 hr watches) which ended at Sunrise (the Jewish Day).

Concerning my position that it was early in the morning hours of Sunday, I provide a somewhat open range (probably between 3-6 am) because "early" (in the morning) is not more precise than that.  I want to be AS precise as Scripture without trying to be MORE precise than Scripture.  I myself would actually lean closer toward sunrise in this estimation, although I would also lean toward the earliest moments of sunrise (whatever timing that might have been on that day).

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21 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Concerning my position that it was early in the morning hours of Sunday, I provide a somewhat open range (probably between 3-6 am) because "early" (in the morning) is not more precise than that.  I want to be AS precise as Scripture without trying to be MORE precise than Scripture.  I myself would actually lean closer toward sunrise in this estimation, although I would also lean toward the earliest moments of sunrise (whatever timing that might have been on that day).

Since morning doesn't start until sunrise, I would agree that it was most likely the moment the sun rose. But a great topic to ask Jesus when we see him.

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On 3/30/2018 at 11:57 PM, HappyChristian said:

I just have to put in a plug...I knew Doug (the man behind pulpitaflame) way back when. I worked for Dr. Boyd when Doug  traveled with him. I got to meet his brand new  wife Rhonda as well. Not that this info adds to the topic, but I just think it's really cool when I hear about folks I've known in the past. And to find that they are still serving the Lord.

He was my Pastor for 6 years before recently going back to evangelism. He's a great preacher. I love him and his family

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On 3/30/2018 at 11:57 PM, HappyChristian said:

I just have to put in a plug...I knew Doug (the man behind pulpitaflame) way back when. I worked for Dr. Boyd when Doug  traveled with him. I got to meet his brand new  wife Rhonda as well. Not that this info adds to the topic, but I just think it's really cool when I hear about folks I've known in the past. And to find that they are still serving the Lord.

Pastor Brandenburg and Rhonda want to know who you are

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I'm going to have to finish my timeline because some of you folks are way off.  The scriptures teach that Christ died on the Nisan the 14th, at 3pm which was a Wednesday.  His body was placed into the tomb and the door rolled closed at 6pm (end of Wed - begin Thurs) and rose again 3 full days and nights later on our Saturday @ 6pm (Sunday).  Mary came to the tomb twice as did Peter, probably not believing what their eyes and ears had seen; in unbelief.   

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The Scriptures themselves teach that our Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected the first day of the week, which was Sunday.  Furthermore, the Scriptures themselves teach that the day on which our Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected, that is -- Sunday, was itself the third day since (from, after) His crucifixion (NOT the fourth day since).  Finally, the Scriptures themselves teach that our Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected early in the morning hours on the first day of the week (Sunday).  Even so, I am compelled to reject as incorrect any position that contradicts these specific points of Scripture.

I would agree that Mary Magdalene came to the tomb twice, the first time with the other women and the second time alone.  On the other hand, I am not aware of any indication that Peter went to the tomb itself more than once.

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14 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

...our Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected early in the morning hours on the first day of the week (Sunday). 

Do you accept that this description of time is the equivalent to our Saturday evening of about dusk?  

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5 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Do you accept that this description of time is the equivalent to our Saturday evening of about dusk?  

No I do NOT. 

As I have presented earlier in this thread discussion (here), I cannot find a single occasion in the New Testament wherein the word "early" (and the Greek word from which it is translated in Mark 16:9) is used for the evening hours of a day, but can ONLY find that when the word is used in the New Testament for the time of a day, it is ALWAYS used for the MORNING hours of the day.  (Note: I DO acknowledge that the Jewish 24 hour day began at 6pm of what we would consider the previous day, so that their viewpoint of a day began with the first watch of the evening, ran through the four watches of the night, and then extended from morning to evening.)

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23 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I'm going to have to finish my timeline because some of you folks are way off.  The scriptures teach that Christ died on the Nisan the 14th, at 3pm which was a Wednesday.  His body was placed into the tomb and the door rolled closed at 6pm (end of Wed - begin Thurs) and rose again 3 full days and nights later on our Saturday @ 6pm (Sunday).  Mary came to the tomb twice as did Peter, probably not believing what their eyes and ears had seen; in unbelief.   

Swathdriver - The problem with Wednesday is if he was put in the tomb at 559p on Wednesday and rose at 6p on Saturday, he rose on the 4th day, not the 3rd.

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54 minutes ago, Pastorj said:

Swathdriver - The problem with Wednesday is if he was put in the tomb at 559p on Wednesday and rose at 6p on Saturday, he rose on the 4th day, not the 3rd.

Actually, the problem is even bigger than that; for in Luke 24:20-21 the two disciples on the road to Emmaus stated, "And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.  But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done."  Now, their communication with our Lord Jesus Christ as they journeyed to Emmaus occurred during the afternoon on Sunday.  Thus the entirety of Sunday, including the afternoon thereof, has to be recognized as the THIRD DAY (not the fourth day) since (from, after) the crucifixion.  From my perspective, it is numerically impossible for the entirety of Sunday to be the THIRD DAY since (from, after) the crucifixion if our Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on Wednesday.

(Note: It is an interesting fact that the truth that our Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected "the third day" (see Matthew 16:21; 20:18-19; Mark 9:31; 10:33-34; Luke 9:22; 18:31-33; 24:6-7; 24:20-21; 24:46; Acts 10:40; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4) is presented in the New Testament almost twice as often as a reference to the truth that His resurrection and the events related to the resurrection were "the first day of the week" (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; 16:9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; 20:19).  I wonder then if one of these two truths is more significant than the other in relation to the timing of our Lord Jesus Christ's resurrection?)

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle

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On 4/15/2018 at 10:56 AM, Baptistsenior said:

Pastor Brandenburg and Rhonda want to know who you are

@BaptistseniorI don't know if they'll remember me. My name was LuAnne White back then. They visited our home while I was still living with my folks, Jim and Alice White, going to college. It was while Reagan was running for POTUS.

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14 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

No I do NOT. 

Ok, but I'm certain that you're wrong.

 

12 hours ago, Pastorj said:

Swathdriver - The problem with Wednesday is if he was put in the tomb at 559p on Wednesday and rose at 6p on Saturday, he rose on the 4th day, not the 3rd.

No sir, that is not correct at all.  Jesus is buried at sundown on 15 Nisan whose day begins at 6pm on the high passover sabbath, a Thursday in this instance.  16 Nisan, Friday and 17 Nisan, Saturday, a regular sabbath, Christ was in the tomb until 6pm on 18 Nisan, a Sunday.  Three full days and nights. 

The Jewish day is divided into two parts, night first and then day.  Night begins at dusk and lasts 12 hours.  More specifically, from 6 PM to 5:59 AM.  Then you have day which begins at dawn and lasts 12 hours.  More specifically, from 6 AM to 5:59 PM.     

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6 hours ago, swathdiver said:

No sir, that is not correct at all.  Jesus is buried at sundown on 15 Nisan whose day begins at 6pm on the high passover sabbath, a Thursday in this instance.  16 Nisan, Friday and 17 Nisan, Saturday, a regular sabbath, Christ was in the tomb until 6pm on 18 Nisan, a Sunday.  Three full days and nights. 

The Jewish day is divided into two parts, night first and then day.  Night begins at dusk and lasts 12 hours.  More specifically, from 6 PM to 5:59 AM.  Then you have day which begins at dawn and lasts 12 hours.  More specifically, from 6 AM to 5:59 PM.     

I understand how the Jewish day works. Jesus had to be in the tomb prior to sundown, not at Sundown. But again, let's say he was in the ground at 559p on Wednesday and rose at 6p on Saturday. That is 72 hrs and 1 minute, which is the 4th day. There is no way that I can see to have him in the grave on Wednesday and arisen on Sunday and have it be the 3rd day. I would be interested in how you get it down to less than 72 hrs.

Thanks
Ed

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8 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Ok, but I'm certain that you're wrong.

Then, Brother "Swathdiver," you will be compelled to view my position on the entire matter as wrong also.

In response, I would ask you the following questions:

1.  Can you provide a single verse of the New Testament wherein the word "early" is clearly used for the evening hours of the day?

2.  According to your position, what all precisely would be encompassed as the third day since (after) the crucifixion?

3.  According to your position, when precisely did the third day since (after) the crucifixion end?

4.  According to your position, what all precisely would be encompassed as the fourth day since (after) the crucifixion?

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On 4/17/2018 at 8:05 AM, Pastorj said:

I understand how the Jewish day works. Jesus had to be in the tomb prior to sundown, not at Sundown. But again, let's say he was in the ground at 559p on Wednesday and rose at 6p on Saturday. That is 72 hrs and 1 minute, which is the 4th day. There is no way that I can see to have him in the grave on Wednesday and arisen on Sunday and have it be the 3rd day. I would be interested in how you get it down to less than 72 hrs.

Thanks
Ed

If you like, send me your email address and I'll send you the timeline on an excel spreadsheet.  It's a work in progress and not complete yet but does have the timeline down right.

On 4/17/2018 at 10:25 AM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Then, Brother "Swathdiver," you will be compelled to view my position on the entire matter as wrong also.

In response, I would ask you the following questions:

1.  Can you provide a single verse of the New Testament wherein the word "early" is clearly used for the evening hours of the day?

2.  According to your position, what all precisely would be encompassed as the third day since (after) the crucifixion?

3.  According to your position, when precisely did the third day since (after) the crucifixion end?

4.  According to your position, what all precisely would be encompassed as the fourth day since (after) the crucifixion?

Preacher, not at this time; my confused mine says no.  This since (after) stuff doesn't seem right.  When I finish my work.

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6 hours ago, swathdiver said:

If you like, send me your email address and I'll send you the timeline on an excel spreadsheet.  It's a work in progress and not complete yet but does have the timeline down right.

Brother "Swathdiver,"

I do not mind at all.  In fact, I would find it a privilege to receive and consider your timeline spreadsheet (although I may not necessarily agree with all of it).  The following is my public email address (which I do not mind posting here):

shepherdingtheflock@earthlink.net
 

6 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Preacher, not at this time; my confused mine says no.  This since (after) stuff doesn't seem right.  When I finish my work.

Brother, I understand.  For the sake of information, I used the word "since" because that is the specific English word that is found in the King James translation of Luke 24:21 -- "But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done."  In this context the word "since" means "after in time."  However, when I ask my questions using the word "after," I commonly received the complaint that the verse does not actually use the word "after" and thus that my questions are faulty questions.

From my perspective, those who hold to a Wednesday crucifixion and who hold to three precise 24 hour periods in the grave would numerically require the following timeline:

1.  Wednesday -- Crucifixion
2.  Wednesday 6pm - Thursday 6 pm -- First day after the crucifixion
3.  Thursday 6pm - Friday 6pm -- Second day after the crucifixion
4.  Friday 6pm - Saturday 6pm -- Third day after the crucifixion
5.  Saturday 6pm -- Resurrection (precisely the conclusion of three 24 hour periods in the grave, so able to be considered as the precise conclusion of the third day of three days, as well as precisely the beginning of Sunday, the first day of the week)
6.  Saturday 6pm - Sunday 6pm -- Fourth day after the crucifixion

However, I do not wish to assume this timeline for anyone; therefore, I am compelled to ask.  Basically, I am seeking to know if you hold this timeline, such that Saturday (unto the precise moment of 6pm) is the third day after the crucifixion, which would then logically and numerically make Sunday the fourth day after the crucifixion (according to your position).

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