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"every son whom He receiveth"


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heartstrings, the presence of Satan in a colloquy with the other "sons of God" makes the argument for these being human beings rather silly.

#1 Satan is in the presence of, influences, and tempts "sons of God", that's one of the things he does. Matthew 16:23, Mark 1:13 Acts 5:3
#2 Satan is a spirit, not a physical being. Question:: Does he tempt or speak with an audible voice? Satan's conversation was with God himself; not the sons of God.

We do not "get together" with the devil or any other angels for that matter for any purpose this side of heaven and the resurrection.
NOBody said they got together. The book of JOB says Satan "came also among them". He comes uninvited. See Matthew 16:23, Mark 1:13, Acts 5:3, 1 Thessalonians 2:18

These events clearly took place in heaven.
Is Heaven metioned in the passage?

What does the devil say to the Lord's question, "Whence comest thou?"?
Note that this is a question God already knew the answer to. But it could mean this "meeting" was at a certain location on earth. Notice Satan tells what he was DOING in the earth. He does not say he came "from" the earth.

He replies " From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it".
Again, Satan does not answer where he just came from; his answer is what he was doing.

This, and our Lord's latter OBservation about JOB that there is none like him in the earth, make no sense whatsoever if we assume that this is all taking place on earth.
If it had said there is nOBody as good as JOB "in all of the Land of Uz", then JOB wasn't quite the "goodest". Instead it said "in the earth". You can't top "best in the whole world" can you? It means nothing more than that.

Finally, if these are "righteous believers" with whom Satan appears before God, why then isn't JOB, the most righteous of all then living, present as well?
Simple: JOB was, and is, one of the sons of God; so he was there. And remember; God is a Spirit and so is Satan, so no audible voices were needed. So JOB and the other sons of God most likely was OBlivious to anything God and Satan said. Does God speak to you in an audible voice, does the devil tempt you in an audible voice?
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#1 Satan is in the presence of, influences, and tempts "sons of God", that's one of the things he does. Matthew 16:23, Mark 1:13 Acts 5:3
#2 Satan is a spirit, not a physical being. Question:: Does he tempt or speak with an audible voice? Satan's conversation was with God himself; not the sons of God.

NOBody said they got together. The book of JOB says Satan "came also among them". He comes uninvited. See Matthew 16:23, Mark 1:13, Acts 5:3, 1 Thessalonians 2:18

Is Heaven metioned in the passage?

Note that this is a question God already knew the answer to. But it could mean this "meeting" was at a certain location on earth. Notice Satan tells what he was DOING in the earth. He does not say he came "from" the earth.

Again, Satan does not answer where he just came from; his answer is what he was doing.

If it had said there is nOBody as good as JOB "in all of the Land of Uz", then JOB wasn't quite the "goodest". Instead it said "in the earth". You can't top "best in the whole world" can you? It means nothing more than that.

Simple: JOB was, and is, one of the sons of God; so he was there. And remember; God is a Spirit and so is Satan, so no audible voices were needed. So JOB and the other sons of God most likely was OBlivious to anything God and Satan said. Does God speak to you in an audible voice, does the devil tempt you in an audible voice?


This is my last reply because it's OBvious that your mind has been made up no matter what response is given to you. These OBjections are so far out in left field and so non-responsive to the important points raised previously that they really don't deserve a response.

1) No response to the fundamental point that "sons of God" always means angels in scripture.

2) No response to the equally fatal point that it certainly can mean angels, even if point #1 is disputed.
3) JOB 1-2 describes a formal assembly of "the sons of God" in the presence of the Lord. Clearly, what the devil does invisibly on earth among mankind not so assembled has nothing to do with this scene in JOB.

4) JOB 1-2 clearly describes all the assembled parties as witness to this conversation. If JOB were "there", he would have heard all this.

5) Therefore all of these "points" fail to address the central issue that JOB 1-2 is clearly describing a formal assembly of angels in the presence of God; angels are the only ones who could at that time appear before the Lord; whether or not Satan was "invited" is entirely beside the point; scripture tells us that he was there with the other angels -- the sons of God.

6) This meeting had to be in heaven because God is in heaven. The earth is described throughout as another place (from whence Satan came; where JOB is). This meeting could not be on earth because God will not return to earth and hold court as God until the second advent (when Christ will do so) and the eternal state (when the Father will do so).

7) I suppose I'll have to spell it out. a) Satan shows up at a conference before God
B) God asks him where he's been
c) he says "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." (which means ipso facto that they are not on earth, otherwise it would be a non-descriptive answer)
d) God asks then him "Hast thou considered my servant JOB?"
e) So clearly JOB was not there because
i) he would have heard God if this were a conference God had called
ii) the devil describes him in the third person and thus as not at the conference
iii) JOB is at home in the very next verse (1:13)
iv) in JOB 2:7, after another conference, Satan afflicts JOB immediately (JOB who is at home and not at any conference).
v) and of course God is in heaven not on earth -- so that was the place of the conference and the reason why earth is presented in opposition to the place of the conference.

8) Can you cite anyone else who has taken this conference before God to be on earth and involving men and not in heaven concerning angels? The clear meaning of these chapters is so OBvious as to require a very high burden of proof from anyone who seeks to overturn what any reader, sophisticated or first-time, would naturally glean from these verses. We know God is in heaven and we know Satan is an angel. Thus to suggest that somehow the conference is made up of human beings and being held on earth flies in the face of the entire context we are given (all the more so when "sons of God" is examined elsewhere in scripture and seen to always refer to angels elsewhere too). You not only do not supply convincing proof that the clear and OBvious meaning is mistaken; you supply no proof whatsoever.

Love,
Madeline
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This is my last reply because it's OBvious that your mind has been made up no matter what response is given to you. These OBjections are so far out in left field and so non-responsive to the important points raised previously that they really don't deserve a response.

1) No response to the fundamental point that "sons of God" always means angels in scripture.

2) No response to the equally fatal point that it certainly can mean angels, even if point #1 is disputed.
3) JOB 1-2 describes a formal assembly of "the sons of God" in the presence of the Lord. Clearly, what the devil does invisibly on earth among mankind not so assembled has nothing to do with this scene in JOB.

4) JOB 1-2 clearly describes all the assembled parties as witness to this conversation. If JOB were "there", he would have heard all this.

5) Therefore all of these "points" fail to address the central issue that JOB 1-2 is clearly describing a formal assembly of angels in the presence of God; angels are the only ones who could at that time appear before the Lord; whether or not Satan was "invited" is entirely beside the point; scripture tells us that he was there with the other angels -- the sons of God.

6) This meeting had to be in heaven because God is in heaven. The earth is described throughout as another place (from whence Satan came; where JOB is). This meeting could not be on earth because God will not return to earth and hold court as God until the second advent (when Christ will do so) and the eternal state (when the Father will do so).

7) I suppose I'll have to spell it out. a) Satan shows up at a conference before God
B) God asks him where he's been
c) he says "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." (which means ipso facto that they are not on earth, otherwise it would be a non-descriptive answer)
d) God asks then him "Hast thou considered my servant JOB?"
e) So clearly JOB was not there because
i) he would have heard God if this were a conference God had called
ii) the devil describes him in the third person and thus as not at the conference
iii) JOB is at home in the very next verse (1:13)
iv) in JOB 2:7, after another conference, Satan afflicts JOB immediately (JOB who is at home and not at any conference).
v) and of course God is in heaven not on earth -- so that was the place of the conference and the reason why earth is presented in opposition to the place of the conference.

8) Can you cite anyone else who has taken this conference before God to be on earth and involving men and not in heaven concerning angels? The clear meaning of these chapters is so OBvious as to require a very high burden of proof from anyone who seeks to overturn what any reader, sophisticated or first-time, would naturally glean from these verses. We know God is in heaven and we know Satan is an angel. Thus to suggest that somehow the conference is made up of human beings and being held on earth flies in the face of the entire context we are given (all the more so when "sons of God" is examined elsewhere in scripture and seen to always refer to angels elsewhere too). You not only do not supply convincing proof that the clear and OBvious meaning is mistaken; you supply no proof whatsoever.

Love,
Madeline

#1 My opinion, is that "Sons of God" never means "angels" in scripture
#2 See point #1 and Hebrews 1:5
#3 The Bible says this was "before the Lord" (JOB 2:2)Abraham was also "before the Lord"
#4 Nowhere in the whole chapter does it say anyone heard or was a witness to the conversation between God and Satan.
#5 See #3 and It says satan came along with "sons of God", does not say angels
#6 God is everywhere and nothing is said in JOB 1and 2 about a court.
#7 JOB was there "presenting himself" "before the Lord" (Like Abraham was) in God's presence, like David was (like "come before his presence with singing" and God and Satan had the conversation between themselves,
#8 The only clear definitions of who "sons of God" are, is in the New Testament. Please look them up.
#9 It is evidently extremely rare, to get someone to agree with you, if they have their mind made up, especially on an internet forum.
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I think its crystal clear the sons of God are angles. That the place they met was in heaven, not on earth.

Your right, it does not say angles, but everything points to it being angels.

And of course, I have studied this very much, and I've got my mind made up, all the arguments, I've heard before, they just do not add up.

JOB 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And of course, God ask him where he came from, of course God knew, but old Satan said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it," why did he say earth, for he was not standing before God on earth, but in heaven if he was not in heaven he would have said where he came from on earth, not that he came from earth.

I've stayed out of it this time, those who are in this discussion are the very same ones who have been here before. Plus it is something one can agree to disagree about, it has no effect on our salvation, or our churches, it can be cleared up when we all get to heaven. This statement you made, "#9 It is evidently extremely rare, to get someone to agree with you, if they have their mind made up, especially on an internet forum," helps not the least bit, it should have been left off.

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I think its crystal clear the sons of God are angles. That the place they met was in heaven, not on earth.

Your right, it does not say angles, but everything points to it being angels.

And of course, I have studied this very much, and I've got my mind made up, all the arguments, I've heard before, they just do not add up.

JOB 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

And of course, God ask him where he came from, of course God knew, but old Satan said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it," why did he say earth, for he was not standing before God on earth, but in heaven if he was not in heaven he would have said where he came from on earth, not that he came from earth.

I've stayed out of it this time, those who are in this discussion are the very same ones who have been here before. Plus it is something one can agree to disagree about, it has no effect on our salvation, or our churches, it can be cleared up when we all get to heaven. This statement you made, "#9 It is evidently extremely rare, to get someone to agree with you, if they have their mind made up, especially on an internet forum," helps not the least bit, it should have been left off.


I think it's clear that son's of God are believers because the Bible says so. It's the ONLY defintion given. The place they met was on earth and I've already showed scripture which backs that up. (Abraham was "before the Lord")

And of course, God ask him where he came from, of course God knew, but old Satan said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it," why did he say earth, for he was not standing before God on earth, but in heaven if he was not in heaven he would have said where he came from on earth, not that he came from earth.

When God asked Satan "whence comest thou?" Satan told Him what Satan was doing in the earth ....not that he came "from earth".
Once again, "Heaven" is not mentioned.
Now read this for me...

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Here you have....
#1 sons of God (Peter and the other disciples)
#2 In the presence of God (Jesus)
#3 And Satan came among them
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John 81
I don't know if I have done any "mental gymnastics"; but I'm comparing scripture with scripture.....


#1 The Definition of "Sons of God"
The Bible clearly defines who "sons of God" are. John 1:12, Acts 2:17, Romans 8:14, Romans 8:19, Galatians 4:6, Philemon 2:15, 1 John 3:1, 1 John 3:2 Sons of God are believers. Hold that thought...believers

#2 "Before the Lord"
Abraham was a believerand he was "before the Lord"...on earth Genesis 18:22. Do a search on "Before the lord" in your Strong's concordance. I think you will find that most if not all were done on Earth. David "danced before the Lord" Isaac blessed JacOB "before the Lord" Moses spake "before the Lord" and on and on....

#3 Satan came also among them"
Among who? Believers. Is that possible? Yes. Read Matthew 16:23

#4 "Presence of the Lord"
Can believers be in the presence of the Lord? Yes. David said to do it.(Psalm 100:2) and even Cain was in his presence ...on Planet Earth.(Genesis 4:16)

Read the Book of JOB chapter 1 and 2. You will not find the words "Heaven" "throne" or "angels" in either chapter. It says "THE" sons of God(JOB was included see #1), came to present themselves before the Lord (see what Abraham did in #2) and Satan came also among them(see Matthew 16) and since JOB was also one of the "sons of God", Brother JOB would have needed a starship with warpdrive to get to a meeting in Heaven. :)

Study it closer and look up the verses of scripture I showed above.

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I see you have over 36,000 posts by your name...
Are they all about "holiness"? :)

Brotherman, If God thought this passage was important enough to put in the Holy Bible, I would think it is important enough to interpret correctly.


No, a good many were building friendship and in fellowship. That's hardly the point however. As Jerry has correctly pointed out, you keep bringing this up time and time again and there is no edification in the continual posting of this. Whether you or another is right on this issue it has very little real bearing on our walk with Christ.

Of course, if you wish to chase this rabbit again and again, that is your choice. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.
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