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Bakershalfdozen

GO Joe or BOO Joe?

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090910/pl_politico/26970

What did you think of SC Representative Joe Wilson's outburst during Obama's speech?

Some are criticizing the outburst saying he should have shown decorum and respect for the office. Others are saying it is time to stop being PC and tell the truth.

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THat showed a terrible amount of disrespect. The Congress and the Presidency are the begining place for a good, civilized debate on important issues. They, by their leadership, should set the tone of a debate. There are good, honest disagreements as to the future course of our nation. There always have been. That is the nature of politics. What is not good is for those who are our leaders to show such utter and complete disrespect for the other side. Congress should respect the Presidency and the President should respect Congress.

A good, hearty debate is good. Compromise is necessary to pass laws. What is not necessary is people mud slinging and name calling and getting down to shallow, petty insults. That does not cause productivity. That encourages the people to do the same. There are enough rumors and false information going around out there.

Our leaders out to show respect and encourage a healthy, good, robust debate and should not resort to name calling, especially during a formal sessions of Congress.

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I'm torn. Yes, decorum is important. But BO was lying. Plain and simple. Lying. I think this issue is a hot button, and people - even some in Congress - are sick and tired of the lies! Stating that this "reform" wouldn't cost, and then stating that no illegals would be covered. Man - does he think people are stupid? Apparently so.

It's kinda like the emporer who had no clothes. The boy was shocking when he hollered out, while everyone else was thinking it, but pretending to see the clothes. But he was right. And so was JoeW, for the same reason!

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I wonder if this is much different than when the Democrats booed GWB during some of his speeches.


I don't recall any Dems in Congress booing or heckling Pres. Bush during a speech to congress. If they did, it was wrong.

Like I said, a good debate is fruitful and can move things forward. Shouting and yelling and throwing a fit is childish. I wish the media were not giving this attention, or the folks throwing tantrums at townhall meetings. People do this to get attention.

Debate over public policy should be civil, thoughtful, and deep.

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Folks throwing tantrums at town halls? They are employing the VERY SAME TACTICS that BO taught when he was a community organizer. Ever heard of Saul Alinsky? If not, look into what he taught. BO was a follower of SA - at least, until it was turned on him!

And yet, even then, protestors at town hall meetings are not quite as extreme as those who follow Alinsky's style. People are angry, kind. Very angry.

In the eyes of many liberals, right now a "civilized debate" is all those good American sheeple just sitting there taking in everything they are told and nodding their heads in agreement. When they don't, they are being uncivilized. I've seen clips where people TRY to be civilized, but they are mocked and interrupted by the people THEY elected to serve them.

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Personally, I think it detracts from the discussion, but he has every right to exercise the privilege afforded to a Congressperson in that setting. I didn't like the booing of GWB, nor do I like the shouted, "You lie!" to BHO. To me, the OFFICE of President should ALWAYS be respected, even if you were to think that the person deserves little respect. Historically, since the onset of the Watergate era, you see a difference in the manner in which a President is treated in the press and in the populace. It is unfortunate. Every time we shred the authority of another person, we in fact shred our own authority. I believe in the ability to express dissent. It is our right. However, time and place and common sense need to be applied. To me, the SC guy should make an appt with the Pres. or set up a news conf. after the speech and call him out on his view, but yelling seems beneath both of their offices.
People should be talking about the content of the speech, but instead much will be made of the sideshow.

Sorry for the rant. Couldn't help myself.

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-edit-
I wish the media were not giving this attention, or the folks throwing tantrums at townhall meetings. People do this to get attention.

Debate over public policy should be civil, thoughtful, and deep.


The folks throwing tantrums at townhall meetings are not doing it to get attention. They are doing it because they have had enough of being trampled upon by a government that has run wild.

I agree with you that the "Lie" shout was disrespectful, not becoming, and absolutely wrong. However, sometimes people just get fed up and "lose-it." I'm not saying it's right, it's not. But you can only trample on people so many times....

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Folks throwing tantrums at town halls? They are employing the VERY SAME TACTICS that BO taught when he was a community organizer. Ever heard of Saul Alinsky? If not, look into what he taught. BO was a follower of SA - at least, until it was turned on him!

And yet, even then, protestors at town hall meetings are not quite as extreme as those who follow Alinsky's style. People are angry, kind. Very angry.

In the eyes of many liberals, right now a "civilized debate" is all those good American sheeple just sitting there taking in everything they are told and nodding their heads in agreement. When they don't, they are being uncivilized. I've seen clips where people TRY to be civilized, but they are mocked and interrupted by the people THEY elected to serve them.


People getting up in townhall meetings comparing our President to Adolf Hitler, shoutinga and screaming, etc. are acting very disrespectfully, and are throwing tantrums just to get attention. People acting out due to anger, and expressing it in a childish manner is not productive, whether conservative or liberal.

I've seen conservatives ask very thoughtful questions and express honest concerns in a very civil way at some townhall meetings. That is good and leads to a productive discussion. Yelling and shouting and screaming and comparing our President to Hitler, yelling that they want to destroy our country, warning that the government wants to set up death panels (which is utterly untrue...they wanted to pay for doctors giving end of life advice....ex/ if one has terminal cancer, and a doc discusses pain management with the patient) etc. is childish, and does not deserve to be recognized or published. Yet it is and it gains national headlines, while the thoughtful, honest concerns do not make headlines or gain good discussion.

Good points that we should be discussing.....how will this be paid for? How do we improve our health care system? How to we see that people cannot be refused insurance when they have a preexisting condition? etc. These items are worth a good discussion and deep thought.

Discussing non-existent death panels and scare tactics that are not true lead to no productive discussion.

A good compromise would be to pass the a public option and tort reform. While I'm generally against tort reform the way it is written, if the doctors would get on board with a public option, let's give them tort reform to help with their malpractice insurance expense.

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Personally, I don't believe the federal government should even get into it (per the bill of rights, which I still believe in). But if they do, they need to discuss it with people who are involved - not just the ones who want government control, but those who have good ideas that will stimulate the economy and allow us to continue access to the health care we have. We can argue all we want that our system stinks, but it's still the best in the world.

Why not open insurance to competition? Cross state lines - something BO pooh-poohed in the debate, saying that then people will go out of state for it. Well, yeah. That's the idea of competition. If insurance companies had to face the fact that people could take their business elsewhere, prices would drop. That's for starters.

(as far as comparing BO to Hitler - he's pushed more things that are reminiscent of Hitler than any other POTUS. Dubya was called Hitler by the left, pictures of him as Hitler abounded...yet there was no outcry)

Being truthful about things would help, too. This is an interesting video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9GMKK_fWKg&feature=PlayList&p=1E8D904F256ADC0E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=32

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I do think it was unbecoming of Rep. Joe Wilson to interrupt, however, I sure do understand! When has it come about that we must sit and listen to outright lies from anyone, (as well as several political jabs) and remain silent? If it were me and I was that angry, I would have got up and left. That would have been seen as disrespectful as well, though. I think the office of the POTUS deserves respect, just as I believe our church pastor deserves respect........but it he got up one morning and began to preach outright heresy.....our family would get up and leave, plain and simple.

Kind of blue: I have MANY questions about this health care bill! And no one is providing good answers........

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Kind of blue: I have MANY questions about this health care bill! And no one is providing good answers........



You should contact or write your Senators and Reps. They are the ones that answer to you and other citizens in your state.

One thing we must all keep in mind is that our representatives and Senators do not represent us individually, but the citizens of your state collectively. So just because they do not agree with you personally does not mean that they do not represent you. They do. They should hear from you about your concerns. I've written both of my Senators letters. I do not agree with everything they are wanting in the health care debate, but they need to hear from you.

Letters from constituents do weigh on their minds. If a person does not write their Senator and Reps first and try to voice your concerns, voicing them to friends and family or on the internet does absolutely no good. It is your rep that has the one vote that represents you.

I can assure you that hollering and screaming will get you nowhere...a Senator or rep will only be likely to listen to well thought out concerns voiced in a civilized manner. If a letter does not work, call and see if you can make an appointment to see your rep or senator.

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Well, I don't know about yours, kind, but the reps and senators in my district are as arrogant as Baron Hill (see the town hall-schoolmate thread) and they give great non-answers. This "reform" is no different - especially since the greater majority of them have no idea what's really in it!

BTW - just so you know, there are several clips online available of the Democrats booing Dubya in 2005 when he was addressing congress about social security....

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another problem is when most people who are just showing concerns in civilized way, the other party don't see it that way... They see it as complaining, silly, scare tactic, or just plain paranoid.. The only way they see it as civilized manners, is if it agrees with their views.

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(as far as comparing BO to Hitler - he's pushed more things that are reminiscent of Hitler than any other POTUS. Dubya was called Hitler by the left, pictures of him as Hitler abounded...yet there was no outcry)


Isn't that the truth. Just do a Google image search on Bush and Hitler and you get 2,290,000 results. Obama and Hitler nets 2,580,000 results. It goes both ways. The media though is making a bigger deal out of the Obama comparison than the Bush comparison. The fact that people did not know about the Bush comparison shows you just that.

And no, I do not agree with booing in that situation. Even though it is coming from a person that does not seem to respect others views, it should have been handled differently.

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President Obama ought to show respect towards those who oppose him, until he does that those who oppose him will not show respect towards him.

You do not pull people to your side by keeping on attacking them as Obama does.

Its time for him to wake up and realize that he is trying to force something on America that the majority does not want, its time for him to realize that the office of president of this United States in not a dictators office.

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JW has apologized. But the Dems never apologize, do they. Sanctimonious hypocrites! Has Pelosi apologized for calling the CIA liars about briefing her (and others who admit they did brief) on "torture?" No, of course not.

Interesting video:
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=9411772&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/

Something I found interesting was the fact that both Wilson and Hannity have read the bill, Wilson twice, I heard. Contrary to what others have tried to say that those who oppose it on tv and radio do so just out of fearmongering and have never read it!!

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I say we settle this the way some of the more serious disputes in congress were resolved in the late 1700's to the early 1800's. A good old fashioned DUEL (pistols at 10 paces) in front of Congress, that would resolve this just fine. Honor would be properly restored to the offended parties.....
Google it, it has a grand tradition, and I think it's a fine idea. It might quickly resolve a lot of serious problems with our politicians in general. :bleh:

C

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I say we settle this the way some of the more serious disputes in congress were resolved in the late 1700's to the early 1800's. A good old fashioned DUEL (pistols at 10 paces) in front of Congress, that would resolve this just fine. Honor would be properly restored to the offended parties.....
Google it, it has a grand tradition, and I think it's a fine idea. It might quickly resolve a lot of serious problems with our politicians in general. :bleh:

C


clapping.gif

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With this speech, how much respect did President Obama show those who oppose his health care reform? Answer. None, he only showed arrogance. My mother told me in order for me to be shown respect by others I 1st have to show them respect, seems President Obama's mother failed to teach him this, and or he failed to heed her teachings. Notice what he calls those who opposes him on this issues.


Would a duel really prove whose right or wrong?

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Oh, liberals do apologize and this is how they say it: "I'm sorry if I offended any one with my comment". Not "I'm sorry for what I said" or "I was wrong for what I said".
I am so disgusted with the race card being played by the liberals right now. Let's call this guy a racist so we can divert all public attention away from the important issues like Health care. I'm so sick of it, the majority of America voted this guy in but if you say anything negative about B.O. your a racist. Liberals had alot less respect for Bush when he was in office.

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