"book" twist on "woman teaching" subject

[JerryNumbers]

"Womens" books sre written by (usually) over-smart women. It is an excuse to "preach" (to women, of course). The desire is still there...even Eve was wanting more knowledge, and look at the result of that!

For 98% of women that's true, they just do not want to stay in the position God has given them. But them again, many of us don't.

That said, many women will be sympathetic to the out spoken woman, and take up for the forward woman when a man points out she has gone beyond what God meant for her. Even many men will be sympathetic to the forward woman. By forward woman I mean a woman who will not stay in the position God made for her.

This has never change, nothing the New Testament changes this.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou salt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Gen 3:16 (KJV)

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Tim 2:13-14 (KJV)

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 Cor 11:3 (KJV)

But many men will not stand against a woman, most especially many husbands, just as Adam would not..

If seems, from the outside looking in that the Mennonites keep the leadership in the proper order, but few Baptist will.

By the way, no one, man or woman, can serve God to the utmost, if they will not stay in the limits God has given them.

Remember what Jesus said if you follow me, "Deny yourself," that is a tough one for all of us, its so hard to deny self.

[HappyChristian]

Well, I guess you think I'm a forward woman, Jerry. Thanks. Nothing could be further from the truth, but it doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is what my husband thinks. And he knows that I'm not.

[irishman]

there are plenty of novels written by women, such as Jeanette Oak series, etc., I understand they are really good, but are not focuse at teaching doctrine.

The Bible says if a woman has a questuion, let her ask her husband at home...

I have been watching some of the reruns of "Touched By an Angel" on tv, I think that the church has too much touched by an angel philosophy. they tell people that God loves them, and they even quote (mis-quote) Scripture, but no mention of saking Christ to save them. Too often we only tell people that God loves them, and wants them to serve Him, etc, but fail to present the Gospel. (This really has nothing to do with the subject at hand, but the thought crossed my mind that Della Reese is supposed to be a "preacher" in real life! Ohh my!

[His by Grace]

Jerry-So many women have stepped out of their roles for lack of leadership, have fear ( for good reason) and simply men haven't loved their wives like Christ loves the Church. Yes-Jerry a women must submit and obey and show reverance to HER husband but if men when they recieved the Lord aren't taken under another man's giudance many times live's never develop in Christ as they should. Yes jerry-there are rebellious women yet the man is to lead! Have you ever considered when a women (in His house-saved!) comes off rebellious that maybe she actually doesn't know any better and is trying to serve. Most Christian women I know really ,really want to please their husband, don't know how and are very afraid because of actions before salvation. Yes-there are newly saved women I've seen very rebellious but if a women talks to them long enough it almost always comes down to fear. They don't yet understand they're not trusting their flawed husband to do everything right...their trusting the Lord that He is in the ultimate control and will protect them. Please be careful not to judge the weaker vessel too harshly because that only proves to us we we're right to be afraid. His by Grace

[JerryNumbers]

Yes, I've considered all of that. Their trouble is simple.

To many are seeking to swim in the "deeper" Christian life before they have mastered wading in the "shallow" parts.

Many women just completely refuse to be led, for they want to be the leader, and they want be denied.

[His by Grace]

Jerry, Oh my...Men haven't been aloud to lead, they've been made to feel less then men with this fiminist movement and all. Too many are seeking to yell "follow" and sinking because "force" isn't leadership. They haven't even read their Bibles since saying the sinners prayer before demanding the following of all "weaker" than him. Many men refuse to lead, for they want the women to keep on in the Church since it is a women's thing, and they won't step up and be a man . Jerry, I feel like you didn't really read one single word I said. I spoke completely from the heart. I felt you were dismissive and only stated your "made up mind". My statement here on men would be just as closed minded and as unloving as your's above. I have never been so disappointed in you before in all the time I've known you. I'm hurt because I don't even think you read what I wrote or even considered it!

[Wilchbla]

I have no problem with any doctrinal book or any book that teaches the scriptures written by a woman. I don't feel that she is usurping authority as I read it although I could see how there may be a fine line there.

[JerryNumbers]

Jerry, Oh my...Men haven't been aloud to lead, they've been made to feel less then men with this fiminist movement and all. Too many are seeking to yell "follow" and sinking because "force" isn't leadership. They haven't even read their Bibles since saying the sinners prayer before demanding the following of all "weaker" than him. Many men refuse to lead, for they want the women to keep on in the Church since it is a women's thing, and they won't step up and be a man . Jerry, I feel like you didn't really read one single word I said. I spoke completely from the heart. I felt you were dismissive and only stated your "made up mind". My statement here on men would be just as closed minded and as unloving as your's above. I have never been so disappointed in you before in all the time I've known you. I'm hurt because I don't even think you read what I wrote or even considered it!

See there, you reading into my post, your trying to read my mind and thoughts, but please remember, your not God, you cannot read my thoughts, you cannot read no ones thoughts.

When your start reading into anyone's post, that will get you into trouble, for usually you will be 100% wrong.

You disappoint me, your more interested in trying to put down the man than in taking what the man has said in context of what has been said. That is the way it is with many, they try to put all the blame on everyone else, its a natural thing to do.

[HappyChristian]

Yes, the Bible does say if a woman has a question to ask her husband at home...but it also tells older women to teach the younger women. This can be done through books.

Janette Oke does a pretty good job of presenting salvation in her books. She also presents submission and a few other issues that would be pertinent to women.

There are good books written by women which stemmed from devotions that they had themselves or that they gave at women's meetings. There are other very Biblical books written by women for women. Mrs. Randy Starr has written a series on women of the Bible - nonfiction. And they are very good. She wrote them with permission of her husband, and sells them with permission of her husband, who is an IFB pastor and writes books himself. She's also written a very good book for women on how to deal with the change of life changes scripturally. And she's written a book on women and dress (David Cloud quoted her in his recent book).

She's a lovely lady who is in complete submission to her hubby. And her books have helped a number of women. All of her books point to scripture.

I highly recommend them. Men wouldn't enjoy reading them, most likely, because they are written to women.

[His by Grace]

Jerry, What? I never attempt to read another's mind-- especially a man's because I'm not one! You can read all of my post and I never am attempting to put men down or remove them from their God given place of leadership. I have never ever -knowingly- said anything to upsurp a man's authority. I was simply questioning and commenting about your last sentence in the post before- you posted this! You said and I quote:" Many women just completely refuse to be led,for they want to be the leader, and they want be denied." How did you get ...Oh never mind! I haven't a clue why you would percieve my comments, of all people, to say whatever you thought --by your responses to be under minding the role of Christian men? Are you reading my complete post? His by Grace ...His servant abiding in Him is all I know. P.S. Please see last post of your's and the one before of mine so that maybe you'll understand what I was attempting to say!

See there, you reading into my post, your trying to read my mind and thoughts, but please remember, your not God, you cannot read my thoughts, you cannot read no ones thoughts.

When your start reading into anyone's post, that will get you into trouble, for usually you will be 100% wrong.

You disappoint me, your more interested in trying to put down the man than in taking what the man has said in context of what has been said. That is the way it is with many, they try to put all the blame on everyone else, its a natural thing to do.

[Bakershalfdozen]

Ok, let's turn away from the personal attacks and stick to the topic. I don't follow all the back and forth stuff because I haven't been keeping up with this topic, but I understand that some are feeling like they are being misunderstood, etc.

Anyone else have anything to say about female writers and men reading their books?

[John81]

Christian's- all of us -are saved by grace!!! How can we stop making these jabes ? I'm just as guilty!! Yet sinful behavior never just goes away!!!! My desire is that this behaviour will just simply not be seen on OB anymore. We also experience this in our daily lives!!!! I praise the LORD that my husband worked hard to finish school yet I went into kidney failure while he was finishing his internship. That meant he was at the Hospital on average 72 hrs. per week. But what did people do at church when they saw a need? Ignored it, said they would come by and then did nothing. (This wasn't a Baptist church but we had been there 7 yrs. and came to every sevice.) They may hope someone will help-just it's you or me- but the Lord has called us to be His hand's and feet!!! I have a christian cookbook my Grandmother allowed me to read when I was much younger and now is mine. Inside is a saying that has touched me for many years, " Alway's remember- you're the only Bible some people ever read!" Never forgot sharing that quote with my Grandfather. He looked me square in the eye's and ask me. "Are they seeing Jesus in the Bible their reading?" My question is to all of us at OB. In our conversation's, prayers and concerns,discussion's ...Are they seeing Jesus here?" I have thing's I need prayer to change and I'm asking for you to pray that the Lord will show me where to start and how to show them Jesus on these pages. Will you join in that endeavor? Please Lord allow OB to show people Jesus on these pages to your Glory not any of our's!!! Serving Him the best way I know--thru loving my brothers and sisters in Christ!!! Loving you thru praying,asking Him to allow me to see you how He see's you and to love you with His love!!! He is the Almighty and the mighty God, The Only Saviour, The Word , Emmanuel, the I AM and He will return-this same Jesus-standing with His feet again on Mt. Olivet!!

[John81]

Many of the problems facing Christians today with regards to the proper roles of men and women, whether writing or reading books or other matters, comes down to many years of worldly indoctrination and far too little (if any) discipleship.

We all had some degree of worldly taint in our thinking and actions regarding the roles of men and women when we came to Christ. If we are not properly discipled and/or if we don't spend enough time in reading and studying the Word and in prayer, we won't be replacing the false worldly ideas with biblical ideas; or perhaps even realizing we are holding some worldly ideas in some areas.

There are many Christian families where the husband fails to rightly train, lead, encourage, instruct and guide his family. Many Christian women fail to biblically perform their duties. The entire family suffers when either or both of these occur.

How many Christian women do things or act in certain unbiblical ways because their husband says it's okay and to their understanding that makes it okay? They have never been taught any better. It's possible their husbands have never been taught any better either; or they may just be lazy and unwilling to be a biblical husband.

How many Christian men are about unbiblical things because their wives don't have a problem with it? Or their Christian friends, their pastor or church never confront them about it, never even bother to mention their wrongful behaviour?

True enough, we should each be busy reading and studying the Word and be in constant prayer so we can learn and grow in the Lord. However, it's also true that mature Christians are to be involved in discipling less mature Christians. This is true for both men and women.

[JerryNumbers]

Jerry, What? I never attempt to read another's mind-- especially a man's because I'm not one! You can read all of my post and I never am attempting to put men down or remove them from their God given place of leadership. I have never ever -knowingly- said anything to upsurp a man's authority. I was simply questioning and commenting about your last sentence in the post before- you posted this! You said and I quote:" Many women just completely refuse to be led,for they want to be the leader, and they want be denied." How did you get ...Oh never mind! I haven't a clue why you would percieve my comments, of all people, to say whatever you thought --by your responses to be under minding the role of Christian men? Are you reading my complete post? His by Grace ...His servant abiding in Him is all I know. P.S. Please see last post of your's and the one before of mine so that maybe you'll understand what I was attempting to say!

Please take a look at what I put in large letters above, 2 times you inferred I did not read all of your post. If you will notice I said I did.

I never said force was leadership.

Believe me, at 62, going on to 63, I know many men that refuse to lead, if you went back and read some of my post from the past, you would find out I've made that comment more than once.

One important fact, what matters between us and God is what we each do, many times if we do our part properly, if we will stay in the position God has given us, the other will work out right. If we step out of our postilion God has for us, it will not help matters.

And, if a wife has a husband who refuses to lead the family spiritually, you will never get him leading the family by telling him what he should do, but if you stay in your position God has for you, keep praying about it, just maybe it will all work out.

I don't know what is being taught in other churches, but from time to time we do teach what the position both husband and wife are to hold. Of course it does no good for the husband who is not at church to hear the lesson.

Whether man or woman, we can do no better than serve God in the position He has for us, we cannot better serve God by stepping into a position that's not meant for us.

For instants, the woman who wants to be a pastor, but yet takes over the position of pastor, she is out of God's will, she is saying I know better than God.

As for you, I have no idea what your doing in life, not the least bit, I'm not examining you, I'm not telling you what to do nor what you ought to do.

I'm making suggestions, biblical suggestions, that is all. I'm not finger pointing, seems on these forums when things are posted some will take it as finger pointing.

I'll make one last suggestion. anyone who is having this problem, perhaps your pastor could recommend a good book you can buy that might help your husband out with this, that is if you can get him to read it.

[John81]

You do bring up some good points Jerry about the importance of each of us filling the roles God has for us and not trying to fill the roles of others who may not be doing their part.

God has specific areas for each of us to tend to and we are to give ourselves wholeheartidely to these. If we are busy worrying about what others are neglecting or attempting to make up for their slack then we are taking ourselves away from fulfilling what God has for us to do.

There are some who argue that since there is no man stepping up to preach then that means a woman "has to" step up and do it. No, Scripture does not say that. What Scripture does say, is that the woman should be about what God has commanded of her. If the woman truly wants a preaching position filled she should busy herself praying for God to provide the man He would have to fill that position. As she patiently awaits God to send that man, she should be about her biblical duties; not taking up preaching.