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I think this is folly 

farouk,   re: "What is your point?"   That you can’t definitively place the resurrection on the first day by using first fruits.

You should tell the guy on the other forum that just because some human wrote it, doesn't make it authoritative. He shouldn't be looking for human confirmation - just sticking to the Bible! :)


dantheman2,

re: "Actually, you should study Acts 20:7 in context. If you do, you will find that this was worship, it was the partaking of the Lord's Supper..."
 
I’m sorry but I just don’t see where the context makes it absolutely necessary to interpret the verse as "partaking of the Lord’s Supper", much less as a recurring special day of the week for the purpose of rest and worship.
 
 
 
re: "Notice that Paul waited 7 whole days to gather and break bread.

Verse 6 doesn’t indicate that. It simply says: "...we stayed seven days." It doesn’t say that Paul might have left earlier, but he wanted to wait until the next 2nd day of the week so that he could observe the Lord’s Supper with the disciples on the first day of the week. To say that it does is pure conjecture on your part. And anyway, it was the 2nd day of the week when Paul "broke bread" (verse 11).
 
 
re: "Acts 2:42 is a better verse than is 2:46."

Again, it is pure conjecture that the "breaking of bread" in verse 42 is different from the "breaking bread" in verse 46.


Perhaps you don't see because you don't wish to see. Acts 20 is clear whether you accept it or not.
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Invicta, you have a couple of questions directed to you in post #31.



I did answer one in post no 34.

Jesus was to be in the tomb the same length of time that Jonah was in the fist, 3 days and three nights.

As Jesus was put into the tomb as the sabbath was beginning, at twilight Wednesday/Thursday. He rose exacly three days and three nights later, twilight Saturday/Sunday evening as the first day was beginning.

Mary went early on the first day of the week, ie early in the evening.

Mark 16:1 ¶ And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Luke 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
1 ¶ Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

Note verse 56. They bought spices and prepared them and rested on the sabbath. This must have been the second Sabbath that weeks as Jesus was put into the tomb as the sabbath was beginning. He arose exactly 72 hours later. as the first day was beginning. 3 days and three nights, exactly.
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I did answer one in post no 34.

Jesus was to be in the tomb the same length of time that Jonah was in the fist, 3 days and three nights.

As Jesus was put into the tomb as the sabbath was beginning, at twilight Wednesday/Thursday. He rose exacly three days and three nights later, twilight Saturday/Sunday evening as the first day was beginning.

Mary went early on the first day of the week, ie early in the evening.

Mark 16:1 ¶ And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Luke 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
1 ¶ Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

Note verse 56. They bought spices and prepared them and rested on the sabbath. This must have been the second Sabbath that weeks as Jesus was put into the tomb as the sabbath was beginning. He arose exactly 72 hours later. as the first day was beginning. 3 days and three nights, exactly.


Where do you get the idea that Wednesday is the sabbath? Saturday is the Sabbath.
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Not Wednesday, Thursday. There were two sabbaths that week, 1st was the high day for the passover, 2nd, the normal sabbath.


Ahh, yes there was the high sabbath. I have heard various views as to which day it was. Some say Friday others say that it was also on Saturday. Obviously you take the position that it was on Thursday. I do not believe that he was crucified on Wednesday.

We have to keep in mind that the Jews counted even a part of a day or night as a day or a night.
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Ahh, yes there was the high sabbath. I have heard various views as to which day it was. Some say Friday others say that it was also on Saturday. Obviously you take the position that it was on Thursday. I do not believe that he was crucified on Wednesday.

We have to keep in mind that the Jews counted even a part of a day or night as a day or a night.


Yes, I know that some people teach that, but Jesus said "Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." As His body was put into the tomb as the sabbath was beginning, if the crucifiction was on Friday, and the resurrection part way through the first day while it was yet dark, that would mean he was in the tomb only one day and part of a night.

Three days and three nights is pretty definite.
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While some scriptures say he would rebuild the temple in three days, or within three days, it also says he would rise after three days.

Mt 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
Mr 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Edited by Invicta
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Yes, I know that some people teach that, but Jesus said "Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." As His body was put into the tomb as the sabbath was beginning, if the crucifiction was on Friday, and the resurrection part way through the first day while it was yet dark, that would mean he was in the tomb only one day and part of a night.

Three days and three nights is pretty definite.


Jewish days and nights are counted different that our days and nights. Their new day begins at 6:00 PM not 12:00 AM.
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Jewish days and nights are counted different that our days and nights. Their new day begins at 6:00 PM not 12:00 AM.


Yes, that is where we count it from 6pm when the body was put in the grave. Three days and three nights as we would say, evenings and morning to the Jews, I believe.
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  • 4 weeks later...
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Perhaps someone new reading here will have the information asked for in the OP.


What information are you looking for? It seems from this thread and the one about Matthew and John that you are looking for us to tell you that there are mistakes in the KJV or that the Gospel is correct only in the general sense of the message and not in every detail of the account.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Wilchbla,

re: "What information are you looking for?"

In addition to the OP, as I said in posts #5, #8, #15 and #23; "I’m looking for a published author and a quote from that author that argues for a change of observance from the seventh day to the first day because - at least in part - due to a first day resurrection and who uses Mark 16:9 to support a first day resurrection."

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Wilchbla,

re: "What information are you looking for?"

In addition to the OP, as I said in posts #5, #8, #15 and #23; "I’m looking for a published author and a quote from that author that argues for a change of observance from the seventh day to the first day because - at least in part - due to a first day resurrection and who uses Mark 16:9 to support a first day resurrection."


So this whole thing is about whether we should observed the Sabbath or not?
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Wilchbla,

re: "So this whole thing is about whether we should observed the Sabbath or not?"
 
For the purpose of this topic, absolutely not. I don't know why you would think that. All I am looking for is a "published author and a quote from that author that argues for a change of observance from the seventh day to the first day because - at least in part - due to the idea of a first day resurrection and who uses Mark 16:9 to support a first day resurrection."

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Are you looking for Samuele Bacchiocchi's quote from the book From Sabbath to Sunday? I found some websites that might have what you're looking for, but I don't know if we're allowed to post websites on a forum. Hope that helps!

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  • 4 months later...

Mrs. T,

re: "Are you looking for Samuele Bacchiocchi's quote from the book From Sabbath to Sunday?"
 

I don’t see where he argues for a change of observance from the seventh day to the first day because of the idea of a first day resurrection.
 
Perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
The days involved would be dependent on when the crucifixion took place. Assumptions have to be made.


Not so, it's all laid out in the Scriptures.

Friday, Nisan the 9th: Jesus comes to Bethany 6 days before the Passover.

Saturday, Nisan the 10th (Regular Sabbath): Jesus enters Jerusalem riding the aXX with the palm branches spread before him and later enters the Temple, looks around and returns to Bethany.

Sunday, Nisan the 11th: Jesus re-enters Jerusalem, cleanses the temple and leaves the city.

Monday, Nisan the 12th: Jesus re-enters Jerusalem and taught and answered questions and later delivered the Olivet Discourse at the Mount of Olives.

Tuesday, Nisan the 13th (First Day of Unleavened Bread): Jesus tells them to prepare the Passover.

Wednesday, Nisan the 14th (Passover): Jesus eats the Passover and institutes the Lord's Supper. He is arrested at Gethsamane, tried and tortured. At 9am Jesus Is Crucified, Jesus dies at 3pm, Joseph after having secured Jesus' body places it in his sepulchre at 6pm and rolls rock over door. This is witnessed by Mary Magdalene and Mary, mother of Joseph.

Thursday, Nisan the 15th (High Passover Sabbath): Jews ask Pilate for Roman guards over the tomb.

Friday, Nisan the 16th: Mary and Mary buy and prepare spices for proper burial. Joseph and Nicodemus at night prepare Jesus' body with 100lbs of myrhh and aloes for proper burial.

Saturday, Nisan the 17th (Regular Sabbath): At the end of the sabbath Mary and Mary come to see the tomb.

Sunday, Nisan the 18th: There's an earthquake and an angel descends from heaven and rolls back the stone. The angel declares that Jesus has risen and invites the women inside. The leave and follow the angel's command to tell others. Peter goes inside and is in disbelief. In the morning the women go back with the spices and meet two angels and Peter too goes back and leaves in disbelief. The risen Christ is seen by many that day.

A day in those times began at 6pm and ended the following day at 6pm essentially; sunset to sunset. Christ was in the tomb a literal 3 day and nights beginning at 6pm on Thursday or 6pm our modern Wednesday and rose at 6pm on Saturday.

Don't forget Revelations 1:10 where John was on the Lord's Day, nor neglect the writings of many of the 1st century baptists who all worshipped the Lord on the first day of the week.

Go the Baptist Challenge website and look for TractGill by Pastor L.M. Potts

Also look up the April 2002, April 2003 February 2008, February 2011 issues of the Baptist Challenge.

Dr. R.A. Torrey, "Difficulties and Alleged Errors and Contradictions in the Bible" published by Moody Press.

Bill Rice

James Green

Austin Fields
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  • 6 months later...

swathdiver,

I’m afraid I don’t see where any of your references argue for a change of observance from the seventh day to the first day because of the idea of a first day resurrection and use Mark 16:9 to support a first day resurrection.

BTW, any particular reason for adding an "s" at the end of Revelation?

Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of an author.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Don't know of an author. The entire question posted in the OP is completely irrelevant. The implication seems to be from your opponent that since nobody quotes Mark 16:9 to defend a change from Saturday worship to Sunday worship that therefore the last 12 verses of Mark are not important and can therefore be removed from the text.

What a stupid argument. Are we now dependent upon a "published work" to determine the validity of the text????
"I trow not!"

The real question is DID GOD INSPIRE AND PRESERVE the last 12 verses of Mark.

John Burgon answered this conclusively in the 1800's. Out of 620 manuscripts that contain this passage (i.e. Mark 16), only TWO of them do not have the last 12 verses, and one of them has a gap big enough to fit between what would be Mark 16:8 in our Bible and Luke 1:1.

Of course, those two manuscripts that delete this passage are none other than the notoriously corrupt Vaticanus and Sinaiticus (Vaticanus leaving the gap to indicate that there is at least some question regarding the authenticity of the passage.)

Therefore, my conclusion is that this entire thread is irrelevant and meaningless.

But since we are here....

vs. 10-14 show us the unbelief of the disciples, for which Jesus Christ rebuked them
vs. 15 - the Great Commission
vs. 16 - shows that baptism is NOT part of salvation - very important verse that I use regularly in that debate
vs. 17-18 - the signs for the Jewish believers, used throughout the book of Acts
vs. 19 - the ascension of Christ
vs. 20 - the obedience of the disciples

Oh, yes, I would definitely say that this passage is an important passage, regardless of whether or not somebody published any type of book or article using ONE verse to defend ONE doctrine. What an absurd argument to make in defense of removing the entire passage!

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  • 1 month later...

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)
John 19:31 (KJV)

Per scripture Thursday as an high day - it was High Holy Sabbath and that observance is still happening today. Crucified on WED and arose sometime after 6P on SAT. The following morning was still the first day of the week.

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  • 2 months later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Can you please explain plainly and simply (for I am a simple fellow) why it is so important to have a published author to quote on this matter?

And why it is so important that you establish a reason for changing the day of worship from sat to sun?

Thanks,

Dave

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Can you please explain plainly and simply (for I am a simple fellow) why it is so important to have a published author to quote on this matter?

And why it is so important that you establish a reason for changing the day of worship from sat to sun?

Thanks,

Dave

 

I like to quote God, Jesus, Matthew, Luke, Paul, & so forth. There's a pastor I've heard on the radio a few times it seems over half of his sermon is spent quoting other people, seemingly building them up as superchristians for examples for those that's listening to him to follow. And to think, I thought it was Jesus who we are to look up to & set the example for us to follow.

 

Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you

 

Mt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

 

No doubt no one will go wrong when looking up to Him & follow His example.

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Since it has again been awhile, hopefully someone new looking in will know of an author.

 

The OP is from 2009, where you ask for the quote so as to be able to reply to someone on another online forum. In other words you're necroposting in one forum in order to necropost in another!

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If he is still looking for an answer for a legitimate reason, then so what?

I would like to know why it is so important?
Answer that properly and you may get the answers you need

 

I'm not sure that wanting to get back to someone on another forum in respect of a thread that's now three years old is a legitimate reason. I expect that thread is now dead and buried and the other person has long since moved on. :-)

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  • 1 month later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Although I'll probably continue to get a bunch of grief, I am still hopeful that someone new looking in will know of an author.


I wasn't trying to cause you grief.
I honestly think that if you were to answer the simple questions I asked you might get some helpful answers.
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DaveW,

 

re: "I honestly think that if you were to answer the simple questions I asked you might get some helpful answers."

 

 

Actually I'm only interested in one answer - and that is the identification of an author as requested in the OP. I'm afraid I don't see the need for anyone to ask questions in order to identify an author (if they know of one).

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Well, if you don't care enough to help me understand why it is important to you, I guess I don't care enough to research it and find something for you.

Sometimes helping people to understand the.reasons behind something can bring the answers you want.......

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