what would you separate over?

[chev1958]

So, women shouldn't help men fight temptation?

[heartstrings]

Romans16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Some "doctrine we have learned" in our church
That young people should keep their hands off each other until marriage.
Division and Offense: People in the church who don't agree, opening their wicked mouth, telling young people "I don't see anything wrong with it." or making smart little cracks about parents' chapereone rules, in front of their children.

Doctrine we have learned in our church
That young people should honour and OBey their parents
Division and Offense: church people who don't agree, encouraging young people to do as they please.

Doctrine we have learned in our church
That women AND MEN should dress modestly and in such a way so as to avoid being provocative to the eyes of the opposite sex etc.
Division and Offense: People in the church who don't see it that way, opening their wicked mouth, and trying to teach contrary to the doctrine we have learned.

How can I have fellowship with someone who wants to pull me AWAY from the "doctrine I have learned"?

[Psalms18_28]

I hope men fight their own tempation because the world is very immodest. I don't want to be a stumbleblock to them, though, especially in church when we should focusing on bible study and worships.

men and temptations are not the reasons why I feel modesty is important. Modesty for me is separating from Worldly things and live more christian-like.

I no longer feel I have to wear latest "sexy" clothing or show off my skin/body to fit in... I'm free from all that because I don't worry about it anymore.

[JerryNumbers]

WOW!!!... on this board it's always about how immodest women dress...what about men? Someone I know told me how sensual it is to look at men who are dressed immodestly (jeans with holes in them, and tight tank tops, etc.). I suggest that men should read their Bible and stop trying to blame someone else for his or any other man's failure to fight temptation.

Please show me the post that stated its OK for a man to dress immodest being as you seem so upset about it.

And remember, none of us are to be stumbling blocks, & there is no doubt, and immodest dressed woman can be a stumbling block for a man.

Ro 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way

And we will each give account to God for whatever we have done.

Ro 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

And what ever if be that we do, be sure it will edify our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Ro

[irishman]

What a long, but informative thread. it seems that everyone of us are scholars, and wew have all the answers! I would separate from fellow Christians over some things, and from a church over other things. Separation is not merely leaving a church, but existing and interacting with others.

I and 2 Timothy answers many of these questions:

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

We need to remember to be charitable, kind, and loving even with those who oppose us.

We are to avoid some even among our ranks;
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen

We are to avoid some;

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

We need to remember who we are:
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

And 2 Thess:
2Th 3:14 And if any man OBey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

This is separation within our own ranks.

[Jerry]

WOW!!!... on this board it's always about how immodest women dress...what about men? Someone I know told me how sensual it is to look at men who are dressed immodestly (jeans with holes in them, and tight tank tops, etc.). I suggest that men should read their Bible and stop trying to blame someone else for his or any other man's failure to fight temptation.

If you visited a few more threads before you overreacted, you would find that I and others do speak against men being immodest in their clothing (or lack thereof) as well. The Bible preaches against BOTH (immodest clothing and lusting) and BOTH sexes are responsible to dress appropriately and control their own lustful thoughts and sensuous living. No one has an excuse. If a women dresses impurely, then she is at fault as much or more than the person lusting for her - and the same goes for the man who dresses in a wrong manner and causes women to see his state of undress and lust for him. Proverbs speaks about an immodest woman increasing the trangressors among men (I am using my iPod and can't look up the verse right now).

[HappyChristian]

WOW!!!... on this board it's always about how immodest women dress...what about men? Someone I know told me how sensual it is to look at men who are dressed immodestly (jeans with holes in them, and tight tank tops, etc.). I suggest that men should read their Bible and stop trying to blame someone else for his or any other man's failure to fight temptation.

One thing to remember is that the Bible speaks to women about modest dress - not men. Personally, I don't have sensual thoughts when I look at a man, although I do not go around looking at them. But I know many women do (have those thoughts). There are reasons I believe that is so, relating to the age in which we live.

Suggesting that men read their Bibles is great. And no-one can blame anyone for his or her own sins. Yes, there are men who lust after any woman, regardless of how she is dressed. And that is 100% the man's sin. However, if a woman is dressed in such a way that her clothing (or what is revealed by the lack of it) incites a man to lust, she is guilty as well.

[DennisD]

First let me say that few people with these standards (myself included) believe that anyone is "condemned to hell" as someone put it for breaching the standard; we do however believe that they are not right with God if the standards are biblical, and they try to expalin it away or make excuse.


The "Key" verse for women in pants is Deuteronomy 22:5 "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."


First, though this is O.T. an abomonation is still abominable today. Do you think that God changed His mind under grace, and suddenl;y decided that it wasn't so bad? If it was an abomination in the O.T. it is still an abomination today! That is a very strong word for God to use, and He does not take it lightly.


Now, I have heard all the arguments that you offer--"Womens pants are different than mens pants" but what were they modeled after originally? We are so far down the road from this verse that they do make pants specifically for women now, but does that make it ok? Besides, most women that I've seen that wear pants will occasionally wear mens jeans too, what about that? I know too that some claim that men wore rOBes like women, but tell that to Jesus! Do you actually think he would have worn anything feminie? I do not pretend to know the styles of the day, and no one does today really, it is all conjecture, but I will guarantee you that there was a difference in their dress, or God would not have to have put this verse in the Bible.


Consider too the reason for the verse: The breaking down of the sexes is the embryo of the homosexual movement! When we all began to look alike we also began to act alike, and you can see how men and women act today. I believe that it all began because the distinction between men and women has been broken down, and the family unit has suffered. Why do you think the priests dressed differently from the laity? It was a matter of dininguishing the office, separating it the one from the other. This is not very popular tioday, I know, partly because the women are rebellious, (as well as the men). Today you have a fight on your hands if you demand that your wife wear dresses all the time; it has to do with her lack of submission in that case, just as long hair is symbolic of submission (her head covered~1 Cor), and the man is not in submission to her, but her to him.


Dress was/is important to God because it has meaning, and it is the way He ordained it to be. Hey, even MacDonalds has the symbols on their bathrooms with woman is dresses and men in pants! It is strange that they know the difference when many of us don't! (joking)


Enough for now, I assume this will get someone a little stirred up, sorry if it does.

This was a very good breakdown and appreciated. My wife was convicted of this in the last year and now wears skirts regularly, sometimes she'll put some pants on if we plan to stay in doors but rarely. It's amazing how much I've learned through just hearing and reading the Gospel. I've learned more in one year at an IFB Church than my 25 years as a Catholic.