Jump to content
Online Baptist

Micheal Jackson dies


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

The Mom of that boy wanted Money and was overly Jealous of Michael that is why she lied and had her son lie about Michael touching him. he had three children right now have they complained of him touching them improper?
Also Cnn on thier website in about an hour will have a briefing of somewhat of his health. There is talks that he might've needed a lung transplant.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 111
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Lady Administrators

The Mom of that boy wanted Money and was overly Jealous of Michael that is why she lied and had her son lie about Michael touching him. he had three children right now have they complained of him touching them improper?
Also Cnn on thier website in about an hour will have a briefing of somewhat of his health. There is talks that he might've needed a lung transplant.


It's quite possible and probable that the mom was after money. So, perhaps the dad in the earlier case (1993). And all the other families...

I hadn't heard about the lung thing. From what I've heard they are thinking it might be a reaction to the Demoral he was given just before he died. I suppose we'll know soon.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

There isn't a shred of evidence he was saved and an abundance of evidence to suggest he wasn't.

Folks should look at this and realize the fact they can die at any time and really consider the state of their soul and their eternal destination.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Well, pt, we can question them...they are not perfect, and mistakes can be made.

As a lawyer, would you read the site I posted to kind and let me know what you think? I'd really like to hear from both of you about it, since you've both been trained in the legal system. Thanks. (and maybe read the Dateline link at the end...about the second boy who many claimed was bought off)


Happy: I read the articles you posted. The article by McClish is absurd. I don't think he would ever be used as an expert in a criminal case to prove the defendant was lieing, and in fact, I researched it and he has never been qualified as an expert in any proceeding in the U.S. As far as his educational pedigree, he's a former U.S. Marshall. He does not hold a medical degree or any form of Ph. D. He is basically saying that we know Michael Jackson is a child molester because Michael Jackson has never specifically said "I am not a child molester" on television or in a printed interview. It's really silly. It also assumes, for no reason other than its convenience, that Mr. Jackson has never said those exact words in a non-public forum.

The Dateline article is interesting, but only really suggests that there are more that have extorted Mr. Jackson than we originally thought. I would also question how much money the house keeper was paid for her interviews, and to whom the interviews were originally given. To compound it all, even she doesn't present any proof of anything. Just more suspicion, this time from someone unrelated to the victim that had a close relationship with him.

In the end we are left with two people that made serious allegations, both of whom were paid millions to settle/prevent any lawsuits and a twelve person jury who actually saw the evidence (as opposed to you and I, who can only merely speculate) and unanimously found him not guilty. If it I were in his shoes, I'd ask what else I have to do to prove my innocence.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators

Thanks for your input on those articles, pt. I don't see giving out millions of dollars as declaration of innocence - even if a jury voted not guilty. MJ was a superstar, as was OJ, and whether we like it or not, people can be influenced by that.

I'm not saying that he did molest those boys. But there is still so much doubt...

(FWIW - I did't know the guy's credentials, but I have to say his conclusions kinda made me scratch my head and go "huh?")

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Thanks for your input on those articles, pt. I don't see giving out millions of dollars as declaration of innocence - even if a jury voted not guilty. MJ was a superstar, as was OJ, and whether we like it or not, people can be influenced by that.

I'm not saying that he did molest those boys. But there is still so much doubt...

(FWIW - I did't know the guy's credentials, but I have to say his conclusions kinda made me scratch my head and go "huh?")


That thing you call "doubt" is a personal conviction that he is not guilty. That's why our legal standard in criminal cases is "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."

You give out millions of dollars to settle cases because it is cheaper than defending them. Would you rather pay $25 million and not have to deal with the whole thing, or go through a year long televised trial that costs you $40 million in legal fees. It makes economic sense and prevents the other party from lieing about you anymore (assuming you are innocent of course). And those are civil suits, not criminal. The issue is not guilt or innocence, but liability. You can't buy your way out of prosecution.

As to Mr. McClish, I might be able to give him more credit if he was a psychiatrist, maybe even a psychologists. Plus, the article is so poorly written. That's what prompted me to research his academic background.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators



That thing you call "doubt" is a personal conviction that he is not guilty. That's why our legal standard in criminal cases is "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."

You give out millions of dollars to settle cases because it is cheaper than defending them. Would you rather pay $25 million and not have to deal with the whole thing, or go through a year long televised trial that costs you $40 million in legal fees. It makes economic sense and prevents the other party from lieing about you anymore (assuming you are innocent of course). And those are civil suits, not criminal. The issue is not guilt or innocence, but liability. You can't buy your way out of prosecution.

As to Mr. McClish, I might be able to give him more credit if he was a psychiatrist, maybe even a psychologists. Plus, the article is so poorly written. That's what prompted me to research his academic background.

Oh - I know it's a personal doubt...If I'm not guilty of something, I'm not going to pay off the accusers. That just isn't me. Of course, I'm not a celebrity, either.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Thanks for your input on those articles, pt. I don't see giving out millions of dollars as declaration of innocence - even if a jury voted not guilty. MJ was a superstar, as was OJ, and whether we like it or not, people can be influenced by that.

I'm not saying that he did molest those boys. But there is still so much doubt...

(FWIW - I did't know the guy's credentials, but I have to say his conclusions kinda made me scratch my head and go "huh?")


I just read the link. I must say, his conclusions are very far fetched. He is not doing anything but picking apart and over analyzing peoples sentences. There is no comment into the psychology involved, the evidnece or lack thereof, and there is no comment on the testimony of the accusers. So, I don't give this a lot of credibility.

One or two people making baseless accusations can ruin someone's life. That is why it is important for a pastor to NEVER meet behind closed doors with a woman, and now a child. Someone ALWAYS should be there so no allegations can be made.

Jackson was very foolish to have sleepovers with 12 year old boys. However, given his child like behavior, and his mental problems to cause it, I do not believe the accusations were true. The accusers were not credible, and the evidence was contradictory, and ALL of the jurors agreed.

As to paying off the first accuser, he did so thinking he would get rid of a problem, and instead created a new one by brining forth a second accuser. I have seen large settlments for baseless claims because the media coverage and a public trial would hurt even more, even if innocent or not at fault. That is a calculated risk. It is interesting that after he paid the first family off, they refused to cooperate in a criminal investigation after that, which in my mind shows they were out for the money.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist



Not necesearily. I'm a lawyer and see people spend an absurd amount of money to settle a case that they are not guilty in. If people can afford it, many times, settling for a large sum is better than being dragged through a very public trial.

He was acquitted on all 14 counts of the crime against children. Crimes against children are terrible, terrible things, and people are quick to convict one guilty of those crimes. People are not tolerant of that behavior.

I think he made a huge mistake settling the first case because it openned him up to further allegations.

Yes, he was foolish in spending time with the children, but I think it was totally innocent. Jackson was very childlike in his behavior. I think he had mental problems stemming from his childhood, and as a result, was like a child as an adult. He was bizzarre, like a child, and very odd, but that does not make him a child molester. If he were, I am convinced he would have been convicted at the trial.

I may go back to study his case, but I recall the accuser's family had sued a store they shoplifted from to try to extort money from the store, and every witness had contradicting stories and were very uncredible, some having admitted to having lied under oath before.


Kind - It's your choice to defend him. If possible would you take his case before God? With what evidence and testimony you're giving could you defend him before God? Do you think the prosecution would present any witnesses you would prefer were not there?
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Well' date=' pt, we can question them...they are not perfect, and mistakes can be made. [/quote']

Hi, Happy Christian. So which is it? Do you think a jury can be mistaken in their judgement or do you think the system is trustworthy enough to be relied upon to clear your name in the event untrue allegations are brought against you? If someone decided to settle out of court because the court is "...not perfect, and mistakes can be made," would you then argue that they should put their faith in the court system?
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

One thing for sure, the Judge, Jesus Christ, who will Judge every human, the saved at the Bema Judgment, the lost at the great white throne, will judge everyone with perfect righteous judgments.

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:29 (KJV)

There will be no dream team of lawyers standing with those who stand before Christ at the great white throne.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 20:11-15 (KJV)

Those standing before the great white throne will have no hope, for they will be cast into the lake of fried which is the 2nd death.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Some don't like to face, or even admit, the fact that most folks are going to hell.

God is very clear there is One narrow Way to heaven and few are willing to accept this. God is equally clear that most will choose the broad way which leads to hell and there is no second chance.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Luke 6:26 - Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

John 15:19 - If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he (Lit. I AM - JEHOVAH GOD), ye shall die in your sins.

Michael was a JW and I certainly hope that he turned to the True God before he fell asleep.

Love,
Madeline

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Kind - It's your choice to defend him. If possible would you take his case before God? With what evidence and testimony you're giving could you defend him before God? Do you think the prosecution would present any witnesses you would prefer were not there?


I'm not sure what your point is. All I know is that it is very easy to destroy someone's life by making accusations of sexual misconduct against them. Every person who has any criminal allegations brought against him or her has a right to defend himself or herself in a court of law. In this trial, the prosecution did not have the evidence to convict him. It was his word against their word. The witnesses were dishonest, out for money, etc. Look at their hisotry.....the mother of the children previously sued J.C. Penny after shoplifting there for $3 million. The testimonies of the brothers were extremely inconsistent and did not match.

I'm not saying he is innocent or guilty. I'm just saying there is not enough evidence to prove one way or the other. Accusations are enough to raise suspisions, and these suspisions haunted him to his grave. Without the evidence, I cannot say whether or not he was guilty.

As for defending him before God, the only one that can do that is Jesus. I have no idea what his personal beliefs were, but if he placed his faith in Christ (which is something I cannot speak to, because I do not know him), then Christ will be his defender before God, as he will be my defender before God.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators



Al - the way the jury system was originally set up is good - I have no arguments with that. But mistakes do get made, because the jurors are human beings. Too often the jurors, nowadays especially, are swayed by things they ought not be. Could those jurors have been swayed by MJ's popularity? Of course they could. His jurors could have consisted of three types: those swayed to believe he was innocent just because of who he was; those swayed to believe he was guilty because of who he was; and, best, those who were impartial (as popular as he was, it's hard for me to believe that any jury would be completely impartial...). Perhaps they all were impartial. But I can still express my doubts as to his innocence without impugning the system.

OJ was aquitted - but it's pretty certain he was guilty. That doesn't mean we throw out the jury system. We have to take the good with the bad.

OJ was deemed guilty in a civil suit brought later...perhaps the fact that no civil suit was filed against MJ speaks to his innocence. Who knows for sure?
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators

Luke 6:26 - Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

John 15:19 - If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he (Lit. I AM - JEHOVAH GOD), ye shall die in your sins.

Michael was a JW and I certainly hope that he turned to the True God before he fell asleep.

Love,
Madeline


Good verses, Madeline (and you don't post here enough anymore, BTW!!! :coolsmiley:).
Just wanted to let you know - MJ was raised JW, but in 2007 he converted to Islam, after "flirting" with the idea since 2003.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Michael never up until recently got interested into islam. He believed in the Biblical God but why should this matter now? He already is in his eternal place where God put him. Is there anything good you can say about this man? Why do we need to look at the negatives? The Jackson family is so heartbroken and needs prayers and all you doing is talking trash about his beliefs and also his controversy lifestyle?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators

Michael never up until recently got interested into islam. He believed in the Biblical God but why should this matter now? He already is in his eternal place where God put him. Is there anything good you can say about this man? Why do we need to look at the negatives? The Jackson family is so heartbroken and needs prayers and all you doing is talking trash about his beliefs and also his controversy lifestyle?


KJV - I would love to be able to say he believed in the Biblical God - but Jehovah's Witnesses do not, and that is how he was raised. He got interested in Islam in 2003 and converted in 2007. That's not being negative, that is speaking the truth.

Yes, his family is heartbroken, and I am sorry for that. But - his controverial lifestyle? Would that be what shows his belief in the Biblical God? No, 'fraid not.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

He left the JW years ago. He never was JW the last 20 years. This family is very misunderstood in the public. The media made him into a controversial person not Jackson. We need to focus on the change he wanted for the world and help out people and the poor and needy. Can't we do that?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators

He left the JW years ago. He never was JW the last 20 years. This family is very misunderstood in the public. The media made him into a controversial person not Jackson. We need to focus on the change he wanted for the world and help out people and the poor and needy. Can't we do that?


KJV - the change this world needs is Jesus Christ. That is not a change MJ was interested in. Jackson's ACTIONS made him controversial. The media just ate it up and spit it back out for everyone who wanted to look at it.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The change of world is helping those in need and helping the sick and stuff. I know the change is Jesus Christ. The media and tabloids followed him around. How I know I used to be one of his biggest fans. Yeah the Change that Michael wanted is the same as Obama to get rid of preachy bigot Christians that poke into peoples buisnesses.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators

The change of world is helping those in need and helping the sick and stuff. I know the change is Jesus Christ. The media and tabloids followed him around. How I know I used to be one of his biggest fans. Yeah the Change that Michael wanted is the same as Obama to get rid of preachy bigot Christians that poke into peoples buisnesses.


KJV - that was uncalled for. You may have been one of his biggest fans, but that doesn't give you the right to be snotty to people who didn't like his lifestyle BECAUSE HIS LIFESTYLE WAS UNBIBLICAL.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators

I know his lifestyle was unbiblical but again does it matter now? He is dead and gone and God took care of him in Thursday. My husband just now said it's between him and God. He was a miserable person.


Yes, he is dead and gone. But people continue to talk, and will do so for many years, because he was so popular.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Millions of people tried to, and continue to try to mimic MJ. Do we really want them staying on the road to hell because they follow the example he gave?

It needs to be pointed out to people that the life he lived and the false religious beliefs he followed lead to hell, not heaven.

No amount of "good" any non-Christian does accounts for anything. We are not to follow the "good" of any man, but the example of Christ. Celebrities doing "good" most often amounts more to show than anything. While they give some money and tape some messages asking others to give, they typically waste enough money every month to feed several families for a year. Worse of all, doing "good" without presenting the Gospel to folks is of little worth.

Christians are to have nothing to do with the worldliness of these lost, wicked spreading celebrities. We have plenty of opportunities to help the poor and spread the Gospel ourselves and through Christian organizations and groups.

What good does it do for anyone to gain the world but lose their soul?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrators

I know his lifestyle was unbiblical but again does it matter now? He is dead and gone and God took care of him in Thursday. My husband just now said it's between him and God. He was a miserable person.

He may be dead, but his testimony will on with us for a long time. Sin does not just effect one person, the effects of sin in our life could last for generations after we die. Threads like this is not to bash MJ, but to warn others about living an unbiblical lifestyle.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Yes I know your warning. I just been keeping up with this family off and on for the last 25 years and not sure if my parents did. Anyhow I do pray for the children are safe and not not reading the media on the net. I am sorry If I hurt anyone's feelings from the bigot comment I made the other day. I been getting overwhelmed. I just can't believe people didn't like him a week prior to his death then they started flocking to that hospital and other places. Been wondering where these people came from.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators

Yes I know your warning. I just been keeping up with this family off and on for the last 25 years and not sure if my parents did. Anyhow I do pray for the children are safe and not not reading the media on the net. I am sorry If I hurt anyone's feelings from the bigot comment I made the other day. I been getting overwhelmed. I just can't believe people didn't like him a week prior to his death then they started flocking to that hospital and other places. Been wondering where these people came from.


Unfortunately, that is the way of people, KJVK - hate or ignore someone while they are alive, and then after death act like they were best friends or always loved them. Of course, many of the people gathering really liked him and so are expressing that. I know at his childhood home in Gary, people are still stopping and leaving gifts in memory. Not just people from Gary, either, but people who travel in just to do that.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

yes i hope they give those gifts to the needy children. I seen big teddy bears and stuffed animals.
My husband got me away from defending Michael today. I tried to watch the appallo (spelling) semi cast on cnn .com live feed but couldn't stomach it. I think I am just going to enjoy my visit with my parents on Friday and not watch his funeral. They don't like him either but my dad liked Man in the mirror song but I am getting more into reading more Biblical and Christian books.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I know his lifestyle was unbiblical but again does it matter now? He is dead and gone and God took care of him in Thursday. My husband just now said it's between him and God. He was a miserable person.


No, your wrong, his life was not between just him and God, sad to say he led many people down the road to hell with the influence he had on them and the lifestyle he led.

One thing about the Bible, it tells both the good side and the bad side of most Bible characters.

There is not really a good side of MJ to discuss.

I fail to understand how a Christians can be a fan of MJ.

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2 Cor 6:15 (KJV)
Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 36 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

×
×
  • Create New...