i have a bible question

[lettheredeemedsayso]

do you think that Paul's thorn in the flesh was an illness? or do you think that it was his besetting sin? i have often wondered about this please elaborate and why?

[Jerry]

The Lord wouldn't give someone a besetting sin. I believe there are two things this and other passages cover:
1) That it was some type of affliction caused by a devil/fallen angel. The verse says "messenger of satan" to buffet him. The word messenger also means angel - aggelos in the Greek, pronounced angelos, where we get our word angel from.
2) I believe that he suffered some type of serious eye problems (more than likely caused by this messenger, though it is possible that was a separate affliction that he suffered later in life). There are verses that seem to refer to this affliction.

[Guest Guest]

I have heard that it was perhaps a struggle against something sexual, maybe homosexual desire. But I don't know. I don't know where people got this or what they use to defend it. It might be simply a speculation...

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Jerry,it doesn't look like the Lord gave paul a thorn in the flesh, either. it says the messanger of Satan buffeted him. paul said to lay aside the sin that so easily beset us.
now the reason i thought they may be connected is that both will keep us from being exalted. both would keep us humble.
and it was paul who said the thing that i don't want to do i do and the things that i do want to do idon't do them. just the overall epistles of paul have made me wonder.

[Jerry]

Maybe you read the verse too quickly this time: :wink:

2 Corinthians 12:7 [i]And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.[/i]

He was given a thorn in the flesh, and I feel the wording indicates that the thorn in the flesh was the messenger of satan that buffetted him. It may be that this messenger prompts the thorn in the flesh, ie. antagonizes or causes the affliction.

[Jerry]

No offense, Catherine, but obviously it is pure speculation because there is nothing in the Word of God to even hint at a struggle like that! These are slanders that liberals or higher critics have made up about Paul because they do like like his hardline teachings (which are the Lord's because all of Paul's New Testament letters were inspired by the Holy Spirit.)

There are several verses that seem to indicate that Paul had a serious affliction regarding his eyesight later in life, which may or may not be the thorn in the flesh.

The verses regarding this possible affliction to Paul's eyes are:

Galatians 4:13-15 [i]Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.[/i]

Galatians 6:11 [i]Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.[/i]

Galatians was not that large of a letter; the books of 1 and 2 Corinthians, Romans, and Hebrews were much larger letters. Many commentators believe that Paul was stating that he wrote with large letters, ie. large printing. This makes sense if he had some sort of eye problems. Larger text is easier to read and write if your eyes are bothering you. I have problems with my vision sometimes, so I like reading my large print Bible and making the fonts larger in certain programs, especially if I have to read a lot of text.

[grace2u]

I think God doesn't expand on the thorn, so that we will not dismiss all the things in life that might be our thorns. We have to pause and consider what besets us....

[Jerry]

Yes, I agree. The Bible teaches that the Apostle Paul is an example to the churches. The Lord may have left out what his thorn in the flesh was, so we could apply the same principles to any ongoing affliction we may suffer. The Lord's answer to Paul is His answer to all His children. Let's walk by faith and rely on His grace!

2 Corinthians 12:9 [i]And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.[/i]

It will always be sufficient! :D

[grace2u]

Amen.... :D


But I look at it this way...if I do have thorns.....I guess that makes me a rose huh? :D

[Jerry]

Good point! :lol:

[lettheredeemedsayso]

jerry, then you are saying that the messenger of Satan is the thorn of the flesh? so the thorn in the flesh couldn't be a sin that we wrestle with all the time? i have heard the point of view that says they think it was his eyesight was bad.

[Jerry]

Hebrews 12:1 talks about the besetting sin, and I believe there is a sin that each particular person has a harder time resisting than any other. Each person is different, and my struggles may not be your struggles, but we do know from other passages of Scripture that we are not alone in our struggles and other Christians face them. See 1 Peter 5:9 and 1 Corinthians 10:12-13.

As far as the thorn in the flesh goes, I believe it is some kind of physical ailment that was caused or allowed by the Lord. The Lord doesn't cause sin, so that wouldn't fit the context here.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Thank you brother, i appreciate the scripture references. i have heard these verses many times, they were encouraging to know that i am not the only one that struggles with this. it makes me angry with myself that i confess the same sin everyday. i have asked the Lord to give me the strength to resist the temptation. the devil gets me in an area where i am so vulnerable and he knows it. it makes me mad at myself.

[Guest Guest]

[quote="higher ground"]
do you think that Paul's thorn in the flesh was an illness? or do you think that it was his besetting sin? i have often wondered about this please elaborate and why?
[/quote]

More than likely, it was an illness of some sort.

Some scholars say blindness, some say arthitis. I tend to believe blindness.

[John the Baptist]

This Messenger of Satan was some affliction allowed by God so that Paul would not be arrogant and self-sufficient after having been caught up to the "third heaven, the very place where God was. The Lord wanted Paul's dependancy to be on Him. He wanted Paul to seee his own weaknesses and limitations, that Paul might rely on the grace of God. The messenger of Satan kept slapping Paul in the face and Paul now sees that it was God's will for it to be so. Each of us have some splinter or thorn in the flesh that hinders us. God allows these things so we will rely on and experience His grace and power in our lives.