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Dear Jerry,

You wrote: [quote]
Dale, interesting that you would mention the rhythm of the heart. It is a proven fact that the backbeat that drums are played to is contrary to the rhythm of the heart - and is actually believed scientificallu/medically to cause stress on the heart because of this.
[/quote]

I looked up the definition of "backbeat" at Merriam-Webster On-Line and found this definition:

Main Entry: back·beat
Pronunciation: 'bak-"bEt
Function: noun
: a steady pronounced rhythm stressing the second and fourth beats of a four-beat measure

For example: 1-[b]2[/b]-3-[b]4[/b] (4/4 time)

Most music has that type of rhythm and if it was as dangerous as those studies say it is,wouldn't we be seeing a great part of the population debilitated by it? It doesn't even pass the "common sense" or "smell" test.

Remember, studies can be rigged to produce any results desired. Just do a search for discredited studies regarding obesity,etc. and see how many there are. Skepticism is warranted when reading such things.

In Christ,

Dale

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[quote="Dale McNamee"]
Most music has that type of rhythm and if it was as dangerous as those studies say it is,wouldn't we be seeing a great part of the population debilitated by it? It doesn't even pass the "common sense" or "smell" test.
[/quote]

Maybe not to you, but some of us do research on issues other than what our preferences are. I used to love rock music,** and it took a long time before I realized what was wrong with that beat.

**In other words, I wasn't seeking to do research that confirmed my preferences or interests - but actually was receptive to information contrary to them.

I do find it interesting to note that the same person here that is promoting drums also listens to Jazz music - that tells me something! Jazz is the precursor to Rock music - as such I put that out of my life as well, including Blues, Country, and so on, and so on...

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[quote="perfectedge"]
I think if the drums you are hearing bother you...then dont listen,
[/quote]

Simple solution - and I don't.

[quote]
and leave worship up to those who want to worship God.
[/quote]

The implication being?... That I don't worship God because I don't listen to drums?...

[quote]
Sorry brother, but thats my opinion.
[/quote]

Exactly - and my opinion just happens to contradict yours - which you can't seem to deal with.

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[quote="Dale McNamee"]
Drums are played to keep time and tempo for the music being played by the other musicians and singers.
[/quote]

I reiterate: rhythm is an integral part of the melody. To think about melody, one [i]must[/i] think about rhythm. Almost the first thing I teach my piano students is to keep a steady beat. We may try to separate the elements of music into melody, harmony, and rhythm, but in reality they are too integrated to separate. If the purpose of drums is to keep time, then they are redundant. The melody (or melodies) should keep time. There is something wrong with a heart that needs a pacemaker, and there is something wrong with musicians who must have drums to keep time. I use a metronome, but only for remedial purposes!

Most music [i]since the advent of jazz[/i] has a backbeat, but overall, Western music has historically accentuated the first beat of the measure. Relentless syncopation is really a new thing. I agree with Jerry's posts on the effect of the backbeat. For a Christian, the kind of dancing that happens with that sort of music should be warning enough about the physical effects of the backbeat.

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Jerry,

I think you need some attention, but i'm not going to give it to you. You are a faceless man, or woman (how would i know right?) that has an idea...thats all!! You could be the enemy for all I know. You just cause yourself stife. So you dont like drums, I dont like keytars. They are electronic, along with the computer you are using. And many argue that computers are the work of the devil. Just look at the strife you cause in your own life and others. Is that not the work of the devil? and hey...do me a favour, and leave out your psychoanalysis of ME. Judge yourself Christian.

Have a nice life,

Malcolm :frog

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[quote]
Just look at the strife you cause in your own life and others.
[/quote]

perfectedge,

I know Jerry doesn't need me to defend him, but there wasn't a whole lot of strife on this board until you and a couple of others jumped on the drum bandwagon.

Jerry and I and others don't agree on all things, but we've been able to debate them in a civilized manner. Maybe your joining is the work of the devil trying to break up the Christian harmony that permeates this forum.

There are folks here who read/study from other versions of the Bible. There was a recent disagreement about women wearing pants. Drums in worship services is one of those issues that can stir up passions among the brethren.

Since I don't recall your participation in other threads, I assume this is the only issue you really care about. You're missing out on some other great discussions here, and you are depriving us of your opinions as well.

If drumming is your thing and your pastor has no problem with it, then drum to your heart's content, as long as you're playing them for the Lord. But please have a Christian attitude when disagreeing with others. And before you retort, if you feel others haven't displayed a Christian attitude toward you, then I suggest you re-read the postings in chronological order, and see where/with whom the negative attitude began.

Submitted with the most humble intent,

Mitch

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:goodpost:

chev1958 you are so correct. Jerry and I have had our disagreements, some heated but we've been able to debate them in a civilized manner.

For the record I was a drummer in High School and I will always be a drummer. It is something I truly enjoyed and a big part of my High School experience. Snare, Quads, Bass, Kettle, even Bongo and cymbals, I played them all. I don't hold the same conviction as some here about drums. I have read the post and my position remains unchanged.
With that being said I suggest you follow chev1958's advice and reread the thread.

You are missing out on a lot if this is the only topic you chose to read or discuss on this board. You will find some strong opinions here, you will find bold posters, but more importantly you will also find good Christian fellowship if you choose to participate in kind. Open you heart and mind; accept that someone will disagree with you on just about any subject. Take each person at their word and I think you will find this a very good place to spend time, study, explore, and discuss God

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Dear Tim,

Good Posting!

You wrote: [quote]
"For the record I was a drummer in High School and I will always be a drummer. It is something I truly enjoyed and a big part of my High School experience. Snare, Quads, Bass, Kettle, even Bongo and cymbals, [b]I played them all. I don't hold the same conviction as some here about drums.[/b] I have read the post and my position remains unchanged."
[/quote]

You'll notice that I "bolded" the two very salient points in this on-going discussion: those who play drums/percussion and those who don't.

Those who do play see the drums in a different way that those who don't play and buy into the "hysteria" don't.

Also,they are able to see through the dis-information about drums,percussion,and rhythm that is promulgated on some websites.

I've been playing for 30 years in many church settings (Sunday morning,Weeknight Bible Studies,and back in the mid '70's:prayer meetings),and have never run across some of the things reported. But,that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen and if I did,I'd be the first to confront the pastor of the church over it!

Changing gears... I've noticed a major focus on the "externals" on this board (and other fundamentalist boards and websites),that somehow if you don't drink,smoke,dance,watch TV or movies,listen to rock,jazz,drums,etc. you'll be "godly". But I also see other "godly" behavior such as enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envy,character asassination,slander,pride,etc.)exhibited. And there is a version of "infallability" attached to places like Way of Life,Dial the Truth Ministries,etc.

How are these reconciled with Colossians 2:6-23
,especially verses 20-23:

Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,

[b]Col 2:21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"

Col 2:22 (which all {refer} {to} things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

Col 2:23 [i]These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, {but are} of no value against fleshly indulgence.[/i] [/b]

Also, Galatians 3 and Galatians 5:13-26:

Gal 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only {do} not {turn} your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the {statement,} "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Gal 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Gal 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

Gal 5:21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Gal 5:24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Gal 5:26 Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

In Christ,

Dale

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I for one appreciate the spirit in which you post, Dale. I disagree with your opinion on the subject at hand, but I do very much admire your consistently calm and kind posting style.

I agree that internals are the most important thing, and that is where God looks, but the Bible also says that man looks on the outward appearance. We are here to serve God first, but we are also here for others, so the externals are also important. What is on the inside is eventually going to come out on the outside; if there is an external problem in a Christian's life, it is usually because there has been an internal problem for a long time. We have to remember that the tree is known by its fruit.

I believe... no, KNOW... that music is a language, and as such, can speak things both godly and ungodly. Therefore there must be a line. If I may compare music to language, all musical instruments are to music as, say, a pen is to writing. An inanimate object, neutral in itself, but which can be used to say things that are not neutral. Music is not amoral, and so we need to have standards. We all don't have to have the exact same standards, but as responsible Christians we should all have them.

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I hate to say this, but you truly haven't heard "Amazing Grace" until you've heard it played on a tuba! I'm being serious! Really!

Tuba was my instrument in high school, and actually in the Navy for a brief time.

Mitch

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[quote="chev1958"]
I hate to say this, but you truly haven't heard "Amazing Grace" until you've heard it played on a tuba! I'm being serious! Really!
[/quote]


And here I thought it was enough for a song to have [i]theological[/i] depth! :lol:

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[quote]
I hate to say this, but you truly haven't heard "Amazing Grace" until you've heard it played on a tuba! I'm being serious! Really!

Tuba was my instrument in high school, and actually in the Navy for a brief time.

Mitch
[/quote]

[url=http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chris30cx.jpg][img]http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/7523/chris30cx.th.jpg[/img][/url]

My son played a 20J in High School. His High School Band played several hymns and the tuba adds so much depth to the music.

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[quote]
chev, I would say that you haven't heard Amazing Grace until you have heard it played on bagpipes!
[/quote]

You're exactly right there, sister! :mrgreen:

Mitch

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Yes! Nose flutes are great. We ordered a bunch of them for my son's birthday and everybody(adults & young folks) formed a band. We really enjoyed it, but not everyone got the hang of playing.

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
:lol: :lol: :lol:


chev, I would say that you haven't heard [i]Amazing Grace[/i] until you have heard it played on bagpipes!
[/quote]

I agree!! That is truly a joyful noise!! :D

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