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Drums

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Oh, yes. It is a must for all Christian music geeks. (Like me.) :mrgreen:

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[quote="Jerry"]
[quote="Wildflower"]Anyway, it doesn't have to lead to contemporary, it only happens to do so by mishandling of the music ministry and the music director appeal to fleshly music.
[/quote]

Doesn't have to, but all too often it does! I think one of the main reasons MOST churches use drums in church and Christian music is because they have not left the music of the world, and still either listen to "secular rock" or are at least used to that type of music (whether Christian or not). It is a documented fact that most CCM artists still listen to and praise the secular artists that they strive to imitate or learn from.[/quote]

:roll:

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[b]My feelings...

Go here:

[url]http://baptistbibleman.home.comcast.net/music.html[/url]

Music in itself IS NOT Evil, it's lyrical content.

These same militant Fundies who condemn rock music,
will sit and listen to that "Good ol' boy" country music or will listen to that Country "Gospel", that
feeds a "Good ol boy" mentality, which basicaly says, "God loves me and my sin and I'll get by the skin of my teeth... yee haw!" Nonsense, If you're gonna condemn one, condemn it all, or don't say anything about it.

(rant off)

CIS

[/b]

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I condemn it all.

I feel that

Rock
Rap
Punk
Hip-hop
Country
& others I may have left out are sinful.

Southern Gospel
Bluegrass
CCM
and others in that genre are "unintelligent". I can't necessarily say they are sinful but they certainly aren't my preference. I hate "yee-haw" and "hee-haw"-isms.

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
I condemn it all.

I feel that

Rock
Rap
Punk
Hip-hop
Country
& others I may have left out are sinful.

Southern Gospel
Bluegrass
CCM
and others in that genre are "unintelligent". I can't necessarily say they are sinful but they certainly aren't my preference. I hate "yee-haw" and "hee-haw"-isms.
[/quote]

I Agree 100% :D

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[quote]
Music in itself IS NOT Evil, it's lyrical content.
[/quote]

There is quite a bit of psychoacoustical evidence that shows that the music itself conveys more than the lyrics.

[quote]
These same militant Fundies who condemn rock music,
will sit and listen to that "Good ol' boy" country music or will listen to that Country "Gospel", that
feeds a "Good ol boy" mentality, which basicaly says, "God loves me and my sin and I'll get by the skin of my teeth... yee haw!" Nonsense, If you're gonna condemn one, condemn it all, or don't say anything about it.
[/quote]

I do condemn it all.

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[quote]
There is quite a bit of psychoacoustical evidence that shows that the music itself conveys more than the lyrics.
[/quote]

:roll:

[quote]
I do condemn it all.
[/quote]


Good!

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[quote]
I do condemn it all.
[/quote]
Me, three! :) I'm for Christians staying as far away as they possibly can from the styles mentioned above.

Music itself is not amoral. Music is trying to tell you something. The [i]way[/i] in which you say something communicates a much greater part of the message than the words you choose. I maintain that the lyrics of a song have very little to do with the message that is communicated. I also maintain that if the message of the words is contradictory to the message of the music (i.e. as in CCM) that the message of the music will prevail.

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[quote]
[quote]
There is quite a bit of psychoacoustical evidence that shows that the music itself conveys more than the lyrics.
[/quote]

:roll:[/quote]


Here's some evidence from Dr. John Diamond, in his publication [i]Your Body Doesn't Lie[/i], discussed the effect that music can have on the body.

[quote]
Using hundreds of subjects, I found that listening to rock music frequently causes all the muscles in the body to go weak. The normal pressure required to overpower a strong deltoid muscle in an adult male is about 40 to 45 pounds. When rock music is played, only 10 to 15 pounds is needed.
[/quote]

Later, Diamond states that the anapestic beat (emphasis on 3 rather than 1) of rock music causes a phenomenon called switching. Diamond describes switching as:

[quote]
symmetry between the two cerebral hemispheres is lost, introducing subtle perceptual differences and a host of other early manifestations of stress. The entire body is thrown into a state of alarm.
[/quote]

Finally, Diamond shows where switching can lead:

[quote]
It is as if his body no longer can distinguish what is beneficial and what is harmful. In fact, his body now actually chooses that which is destructive over that which is therapeutic.
[/quote]

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[quote]
I maintain that the lyrics of a song have very little to do with the message that is communicated.
[/quote]
So if I wrote a song in the same style as a hymn, but about sex and drugs then the message of the "good" style would overwhelm the evil lyrics :shock:

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I'm not saying that would be okay; both the music [i]and[/i] the lyrics need to honour the Lord. It's not a matter of the good [i]outweighing[/i] the bad, it's a matter of the bad apple spoiling the whole bushel. If the lyrics are filthy, of course a person shouldn't listen to the song, no matter how conservative the music is.

If the lyrics were sensual and the music were written in the style of a hymn, do you think the song would sell? I have my doubts. The way in which you say something means much more than the words which you use to say it, and in the above case the message of the music [i]would[/i] overwhelm the message of the text. The sensuality that the world enjoys in its music would be pretty much gone if it were sung like a hymn.

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So where does the bible come in? I am still wondering? can you give me an exegetical statement showing that a genre of music can be evil? no.

*actually, for one second let's forget about rock music. here is my question. What makes something evil?

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[quote="hermanj"]
[quote]actually, for one second let's forget about rock music. here is my question. What makes something evil?
[/quote]

Anything that displeases God is evil.[/quote]

Problem is, No one can prove, Biblically, That drums displease God.

They can take scriputures out of context, and try to use O.T. Scriptures to establish doctrine, But they cannot prove it. Kinda like what them tongue babbling idots in the "Pentecostal" cult do.
as well as them Baptist Brider people...

CIS

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[quote]
Problem is, No one can prove, Biblically, That drums displease God.
[/quote]

Problem is, nowhere did I say that drums displease God. In fact, I believe that music can be displeasing to God even without drums, and music that has drums can be pleasing to God.

Please read my post above about switching. Does God want us to involve ourselves in something that causes us to choose that which is destructive over that which is beneficial? Does the constant beat of the drums, which can be heard at a much greater distance than anything else in the music, fulfill the Biblical admonition to abstain from the [b]appearance[/b] of evil? I don't think so.

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[quote="hermanj"]
[quote]Problem is, No one can prove, Biblically, That drums displease God.
[/quote]

Problem is, nowhere did I say that drums displease God. In fact, I believe that music can be displeasing to God even without drums, and music that has drums can be pleasing to God.

Please read my post above about switching. Does God want us to involve ourselves in something that causes us to choose that which is destructive over that which is beneficial? Does the constant beat of the drums, which can be heard at a much greater distance than anything else in the music, fulfill the Biblical admonition to abstain from the [b]appearance[/b] of evil? I don't think so.[/quote]

Please show me Bibically where drums cause evil or the appearance of evil, [b]NOT THE PEOPLE USING THE DRUMS[/b] But the [b]DRUMS THEMSELVES[/b]. You cannot.

CIS

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Possibly! :lol:

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

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[quote="C.I. Scofield"]
as well as them Baptist Brider people...

CIS
[/quote]

You are a hoot, brother!

In one place you say that Baptists are so corrupt you've changed the name of your Forum to Moody's Study but in another place you refer to yourself as baptistbibleman and on that website (http://baptistbibleman.home.comcast.net/jesus.html)refer new converts to all sorts of Baptist associations including the Landmark Baptists (Baptist briders) which you sneer at here!....not to mention all the hyper-calvinist Baptists on that list.

I can't decide if you are "sending us up" as the Brits say, or you really don't have any idea what you are talking about.

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I am sickened by the lack of love and respect christians show eachother. Whatever issue you have with C.I.Scoefield settle in private. I am not condemning you or anyone else, I am just reminding us all that we need to show eachother love and respect.
Now back to the topic, what about the internet?

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
Possibly! :lol:

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
[/quote]
So, if a disagreement comes up we should just not deal with it? I strongly recommend reading that passage over again and looking at the whole context, I do not believe Paul is refering to everytime someone is arguing.
with love,
Mike

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[quote]
The internet reaches millions of people and is used for evils far beyond anything we have ever seen. So are you displeasing God by using this forum?
[/quote]

I am not participating in the evil. Therefore, no.

[quote]
Please show me Bibically where drums cause evil or the appearance of evil, NOT THE PEOPLE USING THE DRUMS But the DRUMS THEMSELVES. You cannot.
[/quote]

I have no problem with drums (and I don't believe the Bible does either), as long as they are played in a way that is pleasing to the Lord.

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[quote]
I have no problem with drums (and I don't believe the Bible does either), as long as they are played in a way that is pleasing to the Lord.
[/quote]

I agree. Drums are inanimate objects and neutral tools. But they are a tool that must be very carefully handled. A lot of people have the idea that if the drums themselves are neutral, it's okay to play [i]anything[/i] with them, and that is not the case. Instruments themselves could be considered musical building blocks. When they begin to communicate a message, however, [i]the message isn't neutral.[/i]

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