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Hello Everybody!

My name is Dale and I just joined OnlineBaptist! :wave:

I am a percussionist,playing the conga drums and other hand drums(bongo drums,djembe,doumbek,and frame drums) as the music requires at my church's 11am service.

I began playing about 30 years ago and for most of those years,I played for a few churches that I was a member of and have been at my current church for 3 years.

I agree with Jeff,Wildflower,and Liv4theLiving's position on drums being used in church. :cool:

I've always played with reverence and taste since I was offering up the talent(with interest) to the Lord that He gave me. :)

But,I do disagree with the idea that the drumset is more "worldly" than orchestral percussion or other instruments(strings,winds,brass,guitar,etc.).

All are "worldly" since they are used in secular(worldly)music as well as sacred.

But,as Jeff,Wildflower and Liv4theLiving,the heart attitude is the most important to God. You can look at Matthew 15:8-

" 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

In the OT,God rejected the Israelites over their false worship,even though they did the "right things" because in their hearts,they were not honoring Him.

I'd love to discuss drums and worship music with you further and you can either reply here or you can E-mail me at: dmcnamee@bishopcummins.org

I hope that everyone has a very Holy & Merry Christmas!

In Christ,

Dale

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Hello Again!

I played my Ashiko drum on the carol:"Patapan" (Pat A Pan) tonight for my church's festival of Lessons & Carols tonight.

I felt honored to be asked to play for such an occasion by my music director and the drum's sound fit perfectly with the carol.

To learn the carol,I did a search on the 'Web and found this site: Index of Hymns and Carols: http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.co ... ols_pr.htm
and found the carol with background information and a MIDI file.(See the Version 1 link once the page appears).

The carol was written around 1700 by Bernard de la Monnoye (1641-1728), the carol poet laureate of Burgundy.

The verses are as follows:

1. Willie, get your little drum,
Robin, bring your flute and come.
Aren

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Hi Guys,
I'm not afraid of the subject of drums!It's not the drum itself that is wicked, it is the way that it is played. There are drums/percussion instruments in the bible. There are three parts to music: melody, harmony, and rythum. There has to be a balance. Overbearing beat is unbalanced, just like not enough melody. I don't mind a drum as an accent in music, but I don't like a heavy, continuous beat. Classical music uses drums. I like the full orchestrated sound, and having a little drum for effect doesn't bother me as being unholy. Marching music uses a drum. That is for a reason. They need to keep the beat for everyone to march together. Try listening to John Phillip Sousa's music without the drums. It doesn't quite sound right. Obviously we all agree on not using the rock music beat sound. I just think we have to keep all instruments in perspective. It is the way you play an instrument that makes a difference. One can play the piano very wickedly, and I have, on the other hand, heard an electric guitar played very lovely with the rest of an orchestra. It goes both ways. Do a study on drums and timbrels in your Strong's Concordance.

DQ, a music teacher

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I actually listed the musical instruments in the Bible in another thread - can't remember which one though. Drums are not mentioned in the King James Bible.

Timbrels are the same as our tambourines. Yes, they are a type of percussion instrument, but they are not a drum in any sense.

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Jerry, the Bible does'nt say how the timberels were played.They could have been played like a hand held drum, or played like we do the tamborines today, beings the way they were fashioned back then....but the word 'drum' is not mentioned in the Bible, I will agree :)

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When certain people are speaking against drums here, they are referring to drum sets or of a similar nature. A hand held percussion instrument (like a tambourine) is not the same at all - except for maybe bongo drums.

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Not solely for that reason - but yes, I am saying I do not believe they belong in a church. I have studied out the history of drums and how they came to North America - as well as the influence of drums in jazz, blues, and rock. I do not want that in my life, nor in my church.

They were in existence in Bible times, yet God never mentions them as an instrument that was used in worship of Him by the saints of old. I do find that significant. There were many types of stringed and wind instruments, and even timbrels and tabrets ( which are both types of tambourines - ie. hand-held percussion-type instruments played with the hand, not with sticks) In other words, there would not have been a heavy beat associated with the worship of God in the OT.

I put Rock, country, and CCM out of my life - and I would have a problem if it started creeping into my church through a set of drums. It is that steady repetitive beat that I have a problem with - and I think God would too! He tells us not to use meaningless repetition in our prayers to Him. Would it also not be wrong to use endless repetition in our musical rhythm and beat? [i](This a question that I have just thought of, and is no part of my argument or stand in this area. Food for thought.)[/i]

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A drum is a drum to me, whether they're in a set, or just one. :D Both are for rhythm, and they are both percussions.I don't like the way some people play the hand held, and I don't like the way some people play drums in a set.Any instrument can be used to glorify God, in a godly fashion.We all have our own opinion on them, and I can see what Jerry is saying, in a way, but I don't think they are wrong when played with a godly instrumentalist, and in the right way.

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I do not believe in the use of drums in God's house. Although, I will have to admit I do not have any scriptures to back any of this up.I have visited with a friend of mine at the church she was a member of and they did play drums and I thought it was a shame and so disrespectful to God these people (and this was a Baptist church)were up there shaking and boogieing almost looked as if they were having seizures(no offense meant)and it is as if they are bringing the word's music into a house of God's worship because most get the rhythm beat and just can't help themselves they start thier hips swiveling and thier feet moving and thier clicking fingers began doing thier thing thier bodies are in sync with the beat and they could carried away and they seemed to lose all reason of why they were in God's house. I do agree with another poster on this subject that they felt this had already been on another thread and if my memory serves me correctly I too remember this same post being on another thread. I do hope we can all agree to disagree on this because we are all christians and we all have very different views and I think we should all respect everyone else's views although they may not be our own.
God Bless us all if we choose to post on this poll and we can all do just fine IF we remember we all have different views and are entitled to them and let us all respect others views on this topic. :D :?

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[quote="Jerry"]
Drums are not mentioned in the King James Bible.
[/quote]
Neither are guitars, violins, cellos, saxophones, pianos, bass, trombones, clarinets, etc... The list goes on. Are these instruments of Satan simply because there are no mention of them in the Bible??? A timbrel does the same thing a drum kit does. It keeps the beat.

News flash folks.... Hymns were modern music at one point in time. In fact many hymns sound exactly like the songs that were sung in pubs and taverns.

Many of our great traditional hymns got their start in taverns or on the countryside as folk melodies.

For most worshippers music is an important vehicle for praise; for some, it's the most important; for a few it's almost the only way they express their love for the Lord! Music is colour, emotion, lyric and message of universal appeal.

many hymns are self-centred: 'original sin set to music'. Unfortunately most songs from the earlier stages of the charismatic renewal were about 'what God has done for me' - 'God loves me and I love him ain't that nice!' It is, but praise is more that extolling nice feelings. Very few of our hymns are addressed to God. Singing should be from both heart and mind: 'hearty and thoughtful'. An occasional hymn may be nostalgic, linking us with our roots ('the church in the wildwood') or sentimental ('the dew on the roses'): but too many of these makes worship syrupy and subjective.

Listen to and read the lyrics of a praise and worship song, and tell me why God frowns upon these songs!

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[quote="jmwhiten"]
News flash folks.... Hymns were modern music at one point in time.
[/quote]

Maybe you should read a few MORE of the music threads before you make ignorant statements like the one you made above.

No one on this whole website EVER made any statements against modern music - we have made many statements against Rock and Christian Rock or Country (otherwise referred to collectively as CCM, Christian Contemporary Music). In fact, there are some quite good, sold-out separated, modern Christian musicians who do not play Rock music (Christian or otherwise), nor do many of these use drums.

Seems to me that you are making your preference God's will. Have you ever prayed and asked the Lord to guide you in your musical choices - both types of music and types of instruments? Or have you just taken what you liked as a lost person and transferred it to your Christian life?

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[quote="Jerry"]
Maybe you should read a few MORE of the music threads before you make ignorant statements like the one you made above.

No one on this whole website EVER made any statements against modern music - we have made many statements against Rock and Christian Rock or Country (otherwise referred to collectively as CCM, Christian Contemporary Music). In fact, there are some quite good, sold-out separated, modern Christian musicians who do not play Rock music (Christian or otherwise), nor do many of these use drums.

Seems to me that you are making your preference God's will. Have you ever prayed and asked the Lord to guide you in your musical choices - both types of music and types of instruments? Or have you just taken what you liked as a lost person and transferred it to your Christian life?
[/quote]

What defines rock music??? Throw in a drum kit and it becomes rock??? throw in a fiddle and a southern accent and it becomes country???

so, if I distort my electric guitar to obtain a unique sound to my music, is it rock, even though I play to worship God, and give Him all the honor and praise?

I believe in all forms of music, as long as it gives honor and glory and praise to Christ.

I think you use the term rock music about as loosely as most of the world uses the term Christian.

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[quote="jmwhiten"]
I think you use the term rock music about as loosely as most of the world uses the term Christian.
[/quote]

Doesn't matter how I or you define rock (the music of the world) - [b]what does matter is this website takes a stand against all rock and CCM. So make sure you don't promote either of them.[/b]

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CCM is basically Contemporary Christian Rock or Country (in whatever form - whether rap, heavy metal, hard rock, easy listening, hip hop, alternative, etc.). I don't need to define it - just go to a Christian bookstore and see what they have. They market it as such. Mainstream Christian music is worldly, ecumenical, and for the most part apostate or watered down.

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Jerry,

What I am asking is Who or what determins what makes up CCM and why? What do you consider to be contemporary?

The reason that I ask this is because I have asked this before (not on here) else were and nobody can give me a straight answer. They just say CCM=ROCK but don't go more into what I have asked above.

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Auburn-Tiger,

[quote]
What I am asking is Who or what determins what makes up CCM and why? What do you consider to be contemporary?

The reason that I ask this is because I have asked this before (not on here) else were and nobody can give me a straight answer. They just say CCM=ROCK but don't go more into what I have asked above.
[/quote]


CCM is a style of music. It generally refers to music from the 1970's to today. While it is called Contemporary, the actual time that the piece was written is really irrelevant. There are some older pieces (pre-1970's) that the style would be classified as CCM while other songs written post-1970's are contemporary in the age they were written, they are not considered to be a part of CCM because the style is a traditional style of Christian music.

From a pro-CCM page, it defines CCM as
[quote]
The name Contemporary Christian Music was coined to distinguish this style of music from the more traditional forms of religious music. The word contemporary has proven to be an appropiate description of this music over the last twenty years, as the styles have kept up with its secular counterpart. The ever evolving state of C.C.M. includes such diverse and contemporary styles as rock, jazz, blues, dance, metal, rap, alternative, new age, grunge, punk, thrash, death, gothic and industrial. Yet regardless of the form, the essences of all Contemporary Christian Music is the same-to share God's love to the current generation in a way that can be both understood and enjoyed. from http://www.afn.org/~mrblue/ccm/ccm.html
[/quote]


However, the Bible in many places clearly tells us to be separate from the world. It also tells us to be Holy because God is Holy. [quote]
For I [am] the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I [am] holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Leviticus 11:44
[/quote] (This is only the first instance ... it is repeated in the N.T., I believe in 1 Peter 2 for example).

There are certain things that the Lord has sanctioned that are holy and clean unto Him. These things were set apart expressly for Him. (For example...the attire/ceremonies of the priests in the O.T.). When God's people followed the ways of the world instead of what God had commanded them to do to be holy, there was trouble. And since 1 Peter 2:9 calls us a [quote]
But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[/quote] , we need to be holy and separated from the ways of the world.

Music is one of those ways. Generally CCM will contain a sensual beat that overshadows the message of the lyrics. It may be very obvious that the message is being overshadowed or it may be more subtle. Also, the lyrics in CCM tend to be very watered down and some "Christian" CD's barely mention the name of Jesus once or twice out of ten or twelve songs. In addition, CCM, as the definition states above, copies the world instead of being separate from it - hence the so many genres of CCM.

After we get saved, we are a new creature [quote]
Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17
[/quote] . The world/worldliness/flesh that was in us is no longer in us, though we are still in the world until Jesus comes again. However, just because we are in the world does not mean we have to participate in it....and that is what some musicians have done by taking the world's music and putting "Christian" lyrics to it.

In conclusion, CCM is a wordly style of music that often has watered-down lyrics that do little to actually lead a person in worshipping and praising God and what He has done for us. Since God calls us new creatures and says we are to be holy and separated from the world, then we ought to do so.

Here are some more links about Christian music....and what the difference is between CCM and "traditional" Christian music.
[url]http://www.av1611.org/cqguide.html[/url]
[url]http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/ccm/nsmyth1.shtml[/url]

Ramba29

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