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Octuplets? mother wants Oprah to turn her into a $2m TV star


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LAF, I'm really sorry to hear about your family situation. I can't comment on the rights and wrongs of what John and Jerry have said, but I do want to quickly say one thing about people not caring. Unfortunately I don't think you will ever find the empathy and support you need on an internet forum such as this--it's just the impersonal nature of these things. Good for advice sometimes, bad for emotional support.

For what it's worth, I'm thinking of you.



Thank you I actually do frequent a board who does care more about such things .I wish people would learn to care about all people in these situations .Its very very hard for us who do have such problems .
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I don't think the thoughts/beliefs against IVF are edifying right now. Many godly people differ on the topic of IVF and I think that you are completely ignoring the pain that is so apparant in LAF's posts. Some things are just better left unsaid.



Thanks for posting this it is painful when others act like you should be fine like this .Yet I really wonder if they were in my shoes how they would truely act .
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To me, God's truth is the most important thing, proclaiming His truth is important to, and being sure what I proclaim is important to me.

Now, if its something someone is not going to like, does not want to hear, think that its harsh, its uncaring, that I can't help, I surely am not that way.

But the truth is, God can give a person complete peace, but it will not come to them by me or anyone else compromising, but only by staying in God's truth. Now there are many churches, pastors, out there that will speak exactly the words you seem to want to hear, everyone to be in complete agreement with you.

LAF, I woudl love for you to have peace about this issue, that can only come from God. Now I would in no way say what God's will be for you and your spouse, for as we all know, none of us knows God's mind, why God does certain things, why He blesses certain people with certain things of which he withholds from others, only God knows that. But because He does this, it does not make those He with holds certain things from any less or worse Christian that any other Christians.

We all know to, that God does not give us everything we pray for, that does not mean God does not love us, does not care for us, or that He is uncaring, just as a person proclaiming God's truths does not make them uncaring.

The one most important thing for all of us is to want God's will to be done in our life, to walk hand in hand with God, them we will be close to God, them we will start having that wonderful blessed peace that can only come from Him. As I've stated, I would love for you to have that, but I will not tell you untruths in order to please you and give you a false sense of peace, but there are plenty of pastors and churches out there that will give such stuff to you.

I must say to, as I have grown in Christ I have had to correct many things in my life, correct it to God's way, I had to come in agreement with God, if I had of thought those who were preaching to me, teaching me, as uncaring, had rebelled against the truths, I would not be where I am, and probably right here and now I would have just said what you wanted to hear no matter what God's way really is, in order to make you feel better. But the truth is, if I had done that, in the long run, I would not have been the least bit of help to you.

I'm not your enemy, I'm not agaisnt you, I said nothing with the prupose of hurting your feeling's, but only pointing you towards God's truths, my prayer is that you can have that blessed wonderful peace from God.

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To be clear, I have love and empathy for all of my brothers and sisters in Christ. I don't think anyone who has pointed out the biblical aspects of the topic have been harsh. As Jerry as already stated, the Word of God is to be our standard. That means always, in good times and bad times; when things go our way and when they do not.

My family and I are facing terrible stress at this time as outside, wicked forces have ratcheted up their attack upon us. Things have been so bad that I have no doubt if it were not for Christ in my life I would have reached the point of frustration and despair that would have me ready to just give up; why live a good clean life when one lie can lead to such severe governmental intrusion, where my wife and I are viewed as liars and accused of refusing to cooperate because we won't say the lies are true. We are at jeapardy of having our children taken away from us, at jeapardy of having some form of criminal charges filed against us for "refusal to cooperate", at jeopardy of having our oldest son kicked out of the Christian home due to government inteference; of basically having our entire lives stripped from us. I spoke with a lawyer and was told at this point these social workers can do just about whatever they want and there is nothing we can do unless they actually take the children or file a criminal charge; we were advised to "ride it out" and see what happens and he did say we were doing the right thing by not admitting to something that's not true even if that puts us at further risk.

I say all that to point out that even in the midst of this tragedy where a worse case scenario could see our children taken from us and my wife or myself or both of us criminally charged with something and perhaps even forced to do jail time, that I must yet trust God. Trust that He is in control and in some way this will be turned for good. I readily admit I can't see God's plan in this right now but I will yet trust Him and praise Him even though I don't feel like being praiseful.

It breaks my heart to consider the pain and torment so many face. How I long for the day when we will be with Jesus forever and all of this will end. Until then I pray the Lord's will be done and that He would strengthen me, and all of us, for that which we must face and endure.

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John, I'm really sorry to hear about your family situation--I've read your previous posts about it too.

A question that this thread has brought up in my mind: what Biblical support is there for the notions of tact and sensitivity? Are there better and worse times to point out God's truths, or can Biblical truth never be given in an untimely manner?

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here; this topic has come up on the forum a few times in the past, though never specifically discussed, and it has come up again in this thread so it made me think about it.

"So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great."

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The women in the Bible listed as barren never "accepted" it - they prayed and cried about it. (and when Hannah was praying and weeping before the Lord, the man of God was clueless about what she was doing and feeling until she set him straight.) Rachel did something about her barrenness - she ate mandrakes (whatever they are!) Rebekkah was barren for almost 20 years and she had Isaac pray to the Lord. These women didn't passively do nothing - they did something!
I'm not trying to say that giving the Biblical view (or at least your interpretation of the Biblical view) is wrong - I'm just saying that telling them to "accept" their situation is not what they need to hear right then. I'm sure that LAF and others in her situation have tried to accept it, then accepted it, then saw a newborn in a cute little stroller and un-accepted it all over again. They don't need lecturing - they don't need to hear pontificating on someone's interpretation of the Bible, they need sympathy and prayer. A simple "I'm sure it's tough for you" or perhaps a "I'm praying for you, my sister" would be all the encouragement they need. If I were in LAF's shoes I sure wouldn't want to hear "get over it and move on."

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I'm going to answer a question. There is never a time that it is proper to hide God's truth, are tell less than God's truth, once we accept God's truth, them we can heal.
15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

Romans 12:15 (KJV)

I suppose many pastors have done as I, rejoiced with many, cried with many, just as many of the good Christian people who post on this board probably have as well.

I would not be much of a pastor if I told anyone less than God's truth.

I know well, that some will not proclaim truth, there is many churches with these type of pastors, and it seems some on here may well want people who post here to be that way.

You can go back to other topics on this board and see that what I posted is what many of the posted on this board hold to, or maybe I should say use to hold to, some of them may have left and or stopped posting.

One thing for sure, its not right to set and judge why God gives some people certain blessing that He withholds from others. And it not right to question why God bless certain people with such blessing when WE Think they do not deserve it. This I have not done, not once.

Call me hard hearted are anything else you will, but I'm not going to be a hypocrite and proclaim one thing one time, them withhold it the next time fearing I will hurt someone feeling. And if you will notice LAF came into this topic after I.

6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Matt 15:6 (KJV)

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 8:32 (KJV)

Its the truth that frees us, not lies, not half truths.

I've dealt with people in this situation, but I did not lie while doing so as some here seem to want some of us to do here on OB, only truth will set you free, and I've seen God's truth set many free

Its so sad that we have to get into such discussions as accusing some of not caring, telling some not to proclaim the truth.

One last thing, it seems we have to say this over and over, many times, post made on a message board will seem to be harsh and uncaring when it is not meant that way at all. But if you've set thru many sermons, you've probably had your heart pricked too. I have, but I did not go crying that my pastor was uncaring, what I did do was try to get things proper between me and God.

God has the answer for anyone who has a burden.

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Matt 11:28-30 (KJV)

As I have already stated in previous post, prayers, but even more than that, prayers that LAF will find peace, and that others will find that God's truth is the only thing that will set us free, nothing less than the truth will do this.

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I am glad we found a doctor that is working with us to concieve the right way. All I have to do is be on Birth Control for 6 months or later on this summer. Then He will put me off the Birth Control and then it will increase my chances. My Anemia was caused of to much shedding of the uterine wall. I am going back in April to see if I am still anemic. If I am not then we will slowly ween me off from the Birth Control pill and start trying for our first.

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The argument of Rachel holds no validity.
To say that G-d is the only one who opens and closes the womb and then say that a doctor opened a womb in itself is a contradiction. Did that Doctor take G-d's power away? No he did not. If it was G-d's desire to close her womb it would have been done.

The scripture shows nothing of a commandment against medical procedures to cure an ailment. That is building a straw man based on a cultural bias and close to xenophobia.

If anything Isaiah said to care for the widow and orphan and Jesus Christ the Messiah told us not to cast the first stone but to love him above all else and to love my neighbor as myself. This does not entail dragging their iniquities through the streets for all to scoff and scream at.

This thread is kind of disturbing, sickening and telling.

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The argument of Rachel holds no validity.
To say that G-d is the only one who opens and closes the womb and then say that a doctor opened a womb in itself is a contradiction. Did that Doctor take G-d's power away? No he did not. If it was G-d's desire to close her womb it would have been done.

The scripture shows nothing of a commandment against medical procedures to cure an ailment. That is building a straw man based on a cultural bias and close to xenophobia.

If anything Isaiah said to care for the widow and orphan and Jesus Christ the Messiah told us not to cast the first stone but to love him above all else and to love my neighbor as myself. This does not entail dragging their iniquities through the streets for all to scoff and scream at.

This thread is kind of disturbing, sickening and telling.


Has someone posted in this thread against medical procedures to cure an ailment?
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The argument of Rachel holds no validity.
To say that G-d is the only one who opens and closes the womb and then say that a doctor opened a womb in itself is a contradiction. Did that Doctor take G-d's power away? No he did not. If it was G-d's desire to close her womb it would have been done.

The scripture shows nothing of a commandment against medical procedures to cure an ailment. That is building a straw man based on a cultural bias and close to xenophobia.

If anything Isaiah said to care for the widow and orphan and Jesus Christ the Messiah told us not to cast the first stone but to love him above all else and to love my neighbor as myself. This does not entail dragging their iniquities through the streets for all to scoff and scream at.

This thread is kind of disturbing, sickening and telling.


What ailment did this single mother of 6 children suffer from before she underwent IVF? She is not a widow - she's a selfish woman who wanted a lot of kids so she could make money.

Children are born, many times, in spite of the rightness of the situation, because that's the way God designed it. God closed Rachel's womb for a reason. A closed womb is not the norm.

Disturbing? Sickening? Telling? Because people don't agree with what she's done? Hmm - last I heard, we still have some freedom of opinion! :wink
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These children should be removed from this sorry excuse for a human being. I am soooooooooo anti-social services it's not funny, but there are situations where the state should step in for the interest of the children. This woman is no mother. She wants the children for money, not because she truly wants children. The doctors who did the procedure should lose his practice. These poor children. They should be put up for adoption, and given to a family who WANTS children.

Don't get me started on the "God opening the womb" thing. That is the STUPIDEST argument for this. Science works. God designed our bodies to work in a certain manner. Every child is not a blessing from God. That verse is abused and taken out of context by the anti-bc crowd.

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