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Do Methodist belives they can lose salvation?

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Yes, but still they try to make it biblical, even though its not in the Bible. Sad thing, many fall for it.


Who tries to make it biblical? How are they trying to do so? Confirmation has nothing to do with salvation. It is merely a public profession of faith which presupposes that one already has such faith. And I know for a fact that at least one of the local Baptist Churches in my city ask its new member candidates to make such a profession, and rightfully so.

What's with all this "it's not in the Bible" stuff anyway? As stated before, there was a Christian Church, with certain practices, years upon years before there was a Bible. The Bible is a product of the Church, not vice versa. You won't find many true Christians that worship the Bible, which is nothing more than idoltry.

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Who tries to make it biblical? How are they trying to do so? Confirmation has nothing to do with salvation. It is merely a public profession of faith which presupposes that one already has such faith. And I know for a fact that at least one of the local Baptist Churches in my city ask its new member candidates to make such a profession, and rightfully so.

What's with all this "it's not in the Bible" stuff anyway? As stated before, there was a Christian Church, with certain practices, years upon years before there was a Bible. The Bible is a product of the Church, not vice versa. You won't find many true Christians that worship the Bible, which is nothing more than idoltry.


Actually, the Bible is a product of God. And how, please tell, do we know how to run a Church, run our families, run our daily lives without the Bible? It's the manual of life and the only way we know how to get saved...which is more important than anything. So, yeah, the Bible to me is pretty important. Without that, you'd know nothing of the early Church, Christs life, etc and we'd all be on our way to hell.

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Who tries to make it biblical? How are they trying to do so? Confirmation has nothing to do with salvation. It is merely a public profession of faith which presupposes that one already has such faith. And I know for a fact that at least one of the local Baptist Churches in my city ask its new member candidates to make such a profession, and rightfully so.

What's with all this "it's not in the Bible" stuff anyway? As stated before, there was a Christian Church, with certain practices, years upon years before there was a Bible. The Bible is a product of the Church, not vice versa. You won't find many true Christians that worship the Bible, which is nothing more than idoltry.


The early church had a plethora of problems which is what many of the Epistles were addressing. The Bible is a product of God, not the church. Notice the Lord never established "the" church, but rather many local, independent churches were established. The Word of God was copied and passed among these earliest of churches centuries before any organization claiming to be "the" church existed.

From what I've seen and heard if one passes through confirmation they are assumed to be okay with God and basically declared so in that church. No confirmation of their conversion, nothing about being born again in Christ, just pass the confirmation process and you're "in".

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Actually, the Bible is a product of God. And how, please tell, do we know how to run a Church, run our families, run our daily lives without the Bible? It's the manual of life and the only way we know how to get saved...which is more important than anything. So, yeah, the Bible to me is pretty important. Without that, you'd know nothing of the early Church, Christs life, etc and we'd all be on our way to hell.


There are some, especially Catholics and those with practices close to Catholic, which profess that "tradition" is equal to the Bible and in practice is greater than the Bible because if their tradition contradicts Scripture they hold to their tradition.

This was one of the great battle points between those in Christ who held to the Word of God and refused to be yoked with the Catholic church and was also a great battle point of those who rose up against the Catholic church during the Reformation.

It comes down to whether we will choose to follow the Word of God as given or if we choose to follow the traditions of men instead.

We choose as Joshua chose, as for me and my house we will serve God.

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The early church had a plethora of problems which is what many of the Epistles were addressing. The Bible is a product of God, not the church. Notice the Lord never established "the" church, but rather many local, independent churches were established. The Word of God was copied and passed among these earliest of churches centuries before any organization claiming to be "the" church existed.

From what I've seen and heard if one passes through confirmation they are assumed to be okay with God and basically declared so in that church. No confirmation of their conversion, nothing about being born again in Christ, just pass the confirmation process and you're "in".


There is only one body, just as there is only one head. St. Paul was emphatic in his emphasis that we all be one, as in undivided. You admit that the early church's scriptures are God inspired, so it must have some validity. Did not ever notice that all of the different congregations in the Bible were listening to the instructions of one central group of people?

And yes, if one goes through their confirmation classes and states that he or she has faith that Jesus Christ is the only begotton son of God, the Messiah, through whom we may access the father, and through whom our salvation is sealed, then they are assumed to be "okay with God." I don't know of any other way a person can express their faith. What do you do in your church, aside from asking if the person is "saved?"

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Actually, the Bible is a product of God. And how, please tell, do we know how to run a Church, run our families, run our daily lives without the Bible? It's the manual of life and the only way we know how to get saved...which is more important than anything. So, yeah, the Bible to me is pretty important. Without that, you'd know nothing of the early Church, Christs life, etc and we'd all be on our way to hell.


I agree, the Bible is the product of God . . . delivered through his Church. No one said the Bible was not important or that it was not the primary guide to our faith. However, in addition to the Bible, we have the examples and practices of the early Church. It's not the only way we know how to get saved. The gospel was an oral tradition several years before it was codified in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And there were several writings of the early Church that are not considered, nor professing to be, the inspired Word of God, that give us the history and practices of the Church. Our faith is not founded on the Bible. It existed before and apart from scripture. Our faith is founded on Christ. Our practices are based on the practices of his Church. Don't get me wrong, I believe in prima scriptura, that is, that no belief or practice can contradict clear biblical teaching. However, I believe this because the Church accepted those books and cannonized them in to a collection known today as the Bible.

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Don't get me wrong, I believe in prima scriptura, that is, that no belief or practice can contradict clear biblical teaching.
I'm sorry to point this out, but you can't believe this, based on what you've been posting. Several Methodist practices mentioned in this thread have been refuted ad nauseam with Scripture, and you have been defending them by elevating tradition to the level of Scripture. Several historical statements you've made have been shown to be incorrect or at least questionable. Defend your beliefs all you want, but you'll win no converts here.

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I'm sorry to point this out, but you can't believe this, based on what you've been posting. Several Methodist practices mentioned in this thread have been refuted ad nauseam with Scripture, and you have been defending them by elevating tradition to the level of Scripture. Several historical statements you've made have been shown to be incorrect or at least questionable. Defend your beliefs all you want, but you'll win no converts here.


I beg to differ. As I stated, I won't debate this point with you because neither one of us are going to change our minds. But you are obviously familiar with those biblical examples of entire households being baptized after the father has converted and himself been baptized. There is a difference between being converted to Christianity from one faith and being born into a Christian household and raised as a Christian. You believe that only those who were able to make a profession of faith were baptized, without that being stated in the scripture. The factt of the matter is that both positions are reasonable, I just believe mine is more reasonable, as you do yours.

You stating that infant baptism didn't arise until the 3rd centurey doesn't make it so. I'm sure you have some biased anti-infant baptism source which says this, while I have the historical records of the Church of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandra, Corinth, Ephesus . . . It all boils down to which "source" you chose to believe.

And I'm not trying to convert anyone. There were some statements made about some of the practices which Methodist have that at least have something in common with Anglicanism (I do not in fact know what Methodist believe and can only speak to these issues based on my experience with them within the context of Anglicanism). We are all Christians, so I don't know what I would even be trying to convert you to. I merely choose an ancient way of practicing the faith, were as you choose a more modern method. I'm sure we have different reasons for each and I'm not about to say that my reason trumps your reason.

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I beg to differ. As I stated, I won't debate this point with you because neither one of us are going to change our minds. But you are obviously familiar with those biblical examples of entire households being baptized after the father has converted and himself been baptized. There is a difference between being converted to Christianity from one faith and being born into a Christian household and raised as a Christian. You believe that only those who were able to make a profession of faith were baptized, without that being stated in the scripture. The factt of the matter is that both positions are reasonable, I just believe mine is more reasonable, as you do yours.

You stating that infant baptism didn't arise until the 3rd centurey doesn't make it so. I'm sure you have some biased anti-infant baptism source which says this, while I have the historical records of the Church of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandra, Corinth, Ephesus . . . It all boils down to which "source" you chose to believe.

And I'm not trying to convert anyone. There were some statements made about some of the practices which Methodist have that at least have something in common with Anglicanism (I do not in fact know what Methodist believe and can only speak to these issues based on my experience with them within the context of Anglicanism). We are all Christians, so I don't know what I would even be trying to convert you to. I merely choose an ancient way of practicing the faith, were as you choose a more modern method. I'm sure we have different reasons for each and I'm not about to say that my reason trumps your reason.


Agreed. Not everyone has an emotional "born again" experience. Some of us are raised in the church, come to an age of understanding and make a conscious decision to accept the grace of God and profess their faith in Jesus. Now that being said, I base my faith on Scripture, tradition and reason. Think of it as a three legged stool. If you take away one the whole thing will fall over and one cannot override the other. When studying the Bible you cannot check your brain at the door and you cannot forget your knowledge of history. The three work together, they are not mutually exclusive.

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I merely choose an ancient way of practicing the faith, were as you choose a more modern method.
My method of practicing the faith comes directly from Scripture. Your practice, my friend, is the more modern method. And maybe you should post all those "unbiased" historical references you claim to have about early church practices so we can all see. BTW, you need to re-read the entire stories about the "family" baptisms. You'll notice all those in the household heard the gospel and believed, then were baptized. Common sense ("reason") should tell you an infant can't understand enough to believe, therefore would not be baptized. And with that, I'm done.

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My method of practicing the faith comes directly from Scripture. Your practice, my friend, is the more modern method. And maybe you should post all those "unbiased" historical references you claim to have about early church practices so we can all see. BTW, you need to re-read the entire stories about the "family" baptisms. You'll notice all those in the household heard the gospel and believed, then were baptized. Common sense ("reason") should tell you an infant can't understand enough to believe, therefore would not be baptized. And with that, I'm done.


You were done way before this. It always get's rough when facts get in the way of what one wants to believe.

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You were done way before this. It always get's rough when facts get in the way of what one wants to believe.


Scripture supports what Mitch has stated even as it stands against your position. The facts are in the Bible and it's very sad when some prefer the traditions of men to the Word of God.

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Scripture supports what Mitch has stated even as it stands against your position. The facts are in the Bible and it's very sad when some prefer the traditions of men to the Word of God.


True, the facts are in the Bible, yet many will not accept them.

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It is that belief that our works are as filthy rags that cause people to DO NOTHING. Yet in James, we find it is "not by faith alone", we must have works. So where are the Baptist Hospitals? Some of the local baptist churches in my area think that having a car show will win souls to Christ. Yes, they even have the country band under tent for an outside service to show how much "fun" Baptists have. Another thing about Baptists is that they separate themselves from the rest of the Christian body. Isn't that a bit haughty? Our church (independent fundamental baptist), brags that they are not like those other churches, just like that Pharisee that prayed in the temple that he thanked God that he was not like that publican over there.
I'm not trying to criticize, but this is my observation and I do attend a fundamental baptist independent church.

Donillo

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It is that belief that our works are as filthy rags that cause people to DO NOTHING. Yet in James, we find it is "not by faith alone", we must have works. So where are the Baptist Hospitals? Some of the local baptist churches in my area think that having a car show will win souls to Christ. Yes, they even have the country band under tent for an outside service to show how much "fun" Baptists have. Another thing about Baptists is that they separate themselves from the rest of the Christian body. Isn't that a bit haughty? Our church (independent fundamental baptist), brags that they are not like those other churches, just like that Pharisee that prayed in the temple that he thanked God that he was not like that publican over there.
I'm not trying to criticize, but this is my observation and I do attend a fundamental baptist independent church.

Donillo




Those have been persuaded that it is possible to lose their salvation don't fully understand the redemptive process. Scripture clearly teaches us that when we were dead in trespasses and sin that we were without hope but in due time Christ died for the ungodly. We need the blood of Christ to save us and to keep us from falling. For a person to lose his salvation they would have to erase what Jesus accomplished by His death, burial and resurrection. It simply is not possible. Edited by lettheredeemedsayso

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I know that I am replying to an old question.  However, I want to address the question "what is a Free Methodist".

The Free Methodists split from the United Methodists mid-1800's.  They had become liberal even back then.  

I was saved in a Free Methodist church many years ago.  When I moved, there was no Free Methodist church nearby, so we attended and became members of the Nazarene Church which has similar doctrines.  The focus is on entire sanctification and holiness.  Some take that to mean works or effort done in our flesh, but we all know the flesh will fail us.  Some in the churches I am speaking about do fall into that error; it is so easy to do.  Yet, I've been in an IFB church for 10 years and see the same thing - legalism and works so prominent.  Again, so easy to fall into that trap.  

Back to Free Methodists - they are Wesleyan in doctrine and belief.  Yes, they also believe one can lose salvation.

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I know that I am replying to an old question.  However, I want to address the question "what is a Free Methodist".

The Free Methodists split from the United Methodists mid-1800's.  They had become liberal even back then.  

I was saved in a Free Methodist church many years ago.  When I moved, there was no Free Methodist church nearby, so we attended and became members of the Nazarene Church which has similar doctrines.  The focus is on entire sanctification and holiness.  Some take that to mean works or effort done in our flesh, but we all know the flesh will fail us.  Some in the churches I am speaking about do fall into that error; it is so easy to do.  Yet, I've been in an IFB church for 10 years and see the same thing - legalism and works so prominent.  Again, so easy to fall into that trap.  

Back to Free Methodists - they are Wesleyan in doctrine and belief.  Yes, they also believe one can lose salvation.

 

A church preaching standards, & trying to get its members to hold to God's standards, is not working to be saved. Its obeying God, while living godly standards.

 

Many churches & many Christians hates standards, & refuses to live up to God's standards after having been saved them anyone living up to God's standards they claim their trying to be saved by their standards, works.

 

Legalism is trying to be saved by works. We are saved only by grace though faith, not of self, not of works, its a free gift.

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A church preaching standards, & trying to get its members to hold to God's standards, is not working to be saved. Its obeying God, while living godly standards.

A church preaching standards is not preaching the Gospel (good news), they are under the law.  The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.  If people are being fed by anointed preaching, they will live as God wants them to - that is, those who choose to.  Same thing with brow-beating about tithing - if people are being fed and operating in the Spirit - they'll give cheerfully.  Sadly, in our own IFB church, the pastor rules and spirit is stifled.  It seems pastors don't trust God to work in the members - doesn't god give all spiritual gifts to edify the body????

 

Many churches & many Christians hates standards, & refuses to live up to God's standards after having been saved them anyone living up to God's standards they claim their trying to be saved by their standards, works.

 

Legalism is trying to be saved by works. We are saved only by grace though faith, not of self, not of works, its a free gift.

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It's not true that a church preaching standards is preaching the law. The NT is full of standards for those under God's grace.  IF a church preaches that those standards are necessary for salvation, then they are preaching the law.  I totally agree that if the preaching is anointed, the listeners who obey will live as God wants them to.  Pastors who browbeat their congregants are indeed wrong, and most of their preaching is likely not anointed.  Pastors are to preach the whole counsel, and that includes standards.  However, they need to allow the Holy Spirit to work in the lives of the people.

 

I just wanted to add about Free Methodists - I'm not familiar with those in the US, but those in Northern Ireland believe in eternal security. 

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I see, you hate God's standards while abusing His wonderful grace that He offers us.

 

Remember, God will not be mocked.

 

Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Ga 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

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It is that belief that our works are as filthy rags that cause people to DO NOTHING. Yet in James, we find it is "not by faith alone", we must have works. So where are the Baptist Hospitals? Some of the local baptist churches in my area think that having a car show will win souls to Christ. Yes, they even have the country band under tent for an outside service to show how much "fun" Baptists have. Another thing about Baptists is that they separate themselves from the rest of the Christian body. Isn't that a bit haughty? Our church (independent fundamental baptist), brags that they are not like those other churches, just like that Pharisee that prayed in the temple that he thanked God that he was not like that publican over there.
I'm not trying to criticize, but this is my observation and I do attend a fundamental baptist independent church.

Donillo

 

 

Trouble is that Baptists don't separate themselves from the rest of the Christian body.  In our town we have 2 Baptist churches that are in churches together.  Our church is the only one in the town which is not in Churches Together.

 

I met someone who was deacon in our church up to two years ago when he left due to the church voting down a man he wanted for pastor.  I invited him to our carol service last Sunday afternoon.  He said his church (It was Brethren, then called itself Evangelical, now a Christian Fellowship) was uniting with the Baptists that afternoon for their carol service.  

 

I don't know how their service went but our church was practically full.  We had many people who had not been before, including two individuals who had just moved into the area.  

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