Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Calvary

What does the Bible say about music?

Recommended Posts

Seriously, Tarheel, cute pics aside, my point was to include some modern songs in my "buffet." Lumping all new songs as being in the trash can is not giving them a fair hearing.

Our church has found "Breathe" to be a blessing. I'm sorry if it doesn't meet your (and others here) qualifications, but it is a good song with a good message. It's just written in a modern way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Wordly styled" music means music that sounds like the world.

If I believe that particular source of music (CCM) has absolute, definite wordly influences, my point is, why would I look to it as a source of information that I can use in my service and worship of a holy God.

So, going to the trash can (of CCM as a whole) makes no sense, since I have so many other wholesome choices out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="tarheel"]
"Wordly styled" music means music that sounds like the world.

If I believe that particular source of music (CCM) has absolute, definite wordly influences, my point is, why would I look to it as a source of information that I can use in my service and worship of a holy God.

So, going to the trash can (of CCM as a whole) makes no sense, since I have so many other wholesome choices out there.
[/quote]

You forgot to answer the question about the song lyrics that were posted earlier. Do you think they should be classified as "trash"? I don't see the worldly influence in them anymore than I would see it if I said it as my own prayer. I don't pray in "thee's and thou's". I pray and praise really similar to those song lyrics at times because that is what is in my heart.

Now remember, I didn't listen to the music so I haven't a clue what it sounds like, but I did read the lyrics and those sound pretty close to how I praise the Lord when I go on my walks daily. That's why I can relate to them. I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to change my praying and praising if it's coming from my heart. Do you see the dilemma here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like it tarheel, why go to the trash can to get something to sing praised to God. We have a much better place than that to get our songs to praise our Lord and Savior with.

88keys, your more than welcome to tell him.

Anyone who can not see what this song really is, IMHO would not understand any comments I or anyone else made about why it should not be used in God's house.

Yes, I can tell its modern, God and Jesus are left completely out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote]
Anyone who can not see what this song really is, IMHO would not understand any comments I or anyone else made about why it should not be used in God's house.
[/quote]

Maybe you should pray for me. I might not even be saved. Right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote]
Anyone who can not see what this song really is, IMHO would not understand any comments I or anyone else made about why it should not be used in God's house.
[/quote]

Understanding and agreement are two different things. I'm sure we can at least agree on [b][i]that[/i][/b].

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Chelle"]
[quote]Anyone who can not see what this song really is, IMHO would not understand any comments I or anyone else made about why it should not be used in God's house.
[/quote]

Understanding and agreement are two different things. I'm sure we can at least agree on [b][i]that[/i][/b].[/quote]

Yes, I would agree with [b]this[/b]. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My last reply was made in haste as I was on the way out the door for visitation, so I didn't notice your question.

As far as my calling that specific song "trash", that's where my analogy would be applied.

I don't deny that you can find good songs within CCM. However, though you and 88keys may find it ok b/c you see the Lord in that song, I can't get away from it's typical absence of the actual name of the Lord.

That's just the way it is with ALOT of praise and worship/CCM music - they use too many impersonal pronouns while claiming to refer to God. As Chev said, that song could really be about anyone.

Here's an example of a CCM song that was played often in the store I worked at in Connecticut. Most of the songs that were played were typical pop music, but this found it's way into the rotation. Why do you suppose that a non-Christian station wouldn't have a problem playing this on the air? It could be talking about anyone, that's why they use it. This goes back to the difference between true Contemporary Christian Music's infiltration and true Traditional Sacred Music's separation. This group has accomplished their ultimate goal - to be accepted as a mainstream group.

[b]"Here With Me"[/b] by Mercy Me
I long for your embrace
Every single day
To meet you in this place
And see you face to face

Will you show me?
Reveal yourself to me
Because of your mercy
I fall down on my knees

And I can feel your presence here with me
Suddenly I'm lost within your beauty
Caught up in the wonder of your touch
Here in this moment I surrender to your love

You're everywhere I go
I am not alone
You call me as your own
To know you and be known

You are holy
And I fall down on my knees

I can feel your presence here with me
Suddenly I'm lost within your beauty
Caught up in the wonder of your touch
Here in this moment I surrender to your love

I surrender to your grace
I surrender to the one who took my place

I can feel your presence here with me
Suddenly I'm lost within your beauty
Caught up in the wonder of your touch
Here in this moment I surrender

I can feel your presence here with me
Suddenly I'm lost within your beauty
Caught up in the wonder of your touch
Here in this moment I surrender to your love

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kind of like many of the MV's of the Bible, the neuter gender Bibles, CCM leads away from God, not to God.

I'm old fashion, I love to hear God's and Jesus' name very often, I want to be sure EVERYONE KNOWS EXACTLY who I am referring to.


I fail to see why any one who loves God and Jesus would want the leave their name out songs of praise and or when reading the Bible.

Generic song does not get it.

And why in the world would anyone who is writing a song praising God and Jesus want to leave those 2 names out?

Easy answer, money, if God and Jesus' names are in it, they be some who would might not buy it nor listen to it, some radio stations might not play it.

If being modem is leaving Jesus and God's name out, I don't need none of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Since when does a song being emotional make it a good song? It is vague - I don't want fluff in my life or in my church. You can make it mean whatever you want, and make it speak about whoever you want. I am tired of assuming something in mainstream Christianity is referring to Christ - because maybe it isn't. The Catholic listening to it might make it refer to Mary - because that is the mindset they are coming to the song with. The New Age person might apply it to someone else because of their mindset. The Mormon or cultist might apply it specifically to God the Father and definitely not towards Christ because of their mindset. I would rather have a clear song that says something. This is one of the main reasons I stopped listening to CCM - Sure, a lot of it seems great when you are assuming that it is Christian and talking about Christ - but something that doesn't actually mention Christ is NOT Christian, no matter how much we want it to be...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote]
I don't deny that you can find good songs within CCM. However, though you and 88keys may find it ok b/c you see the Lord in that song, I can't get away from it's typical absence of the actual name of the Lord.
[/quote]

I understand how you would find it a stumblingblock because of your stand on CCM in general. I don't listen to CCM and don't like the music that goes with it generally so I just never gave it much thought other than to rush to change the channel if it ever came on. I have always gone on the assumption that if they say it's a Christian song that they are talking to or about the Lord Jesus Christ or the Father or the Holy Spirit.

The lyrics that 88keys quoted is what I consider "direct address". My prayer/praise sessions can start with calling on the name of the Lord. But when I am talking directly to Him, I don't necessarily feel the need to say His name to Him. I can say it because I love the name, but I don't feel it's necessary to say His name to HIM after my initial calling. He already knows His name and He knows who I'm talking to.

I feel the same way when believers are worshipping their Lord together as a body. They could use those lyrics to connect with their Lord without having to say His name to Him. The lyrics are supposedly for Christians and Christians know their Lord and the Lord knows them and when we are worshipping or praising Him He knows it. The bible is filled with the goodness of God and not every quote in scripture has to do with the salvation message. So there will be songs that just talk to Him of His beauty or His love or His mercy or His wisdom or His righteousness. Kind of like the song "Holy Holy Holy".

Now the song that YOU quoted isn't anything like what I would say so I wouldn't like to sing that one. IOW, I didn't connect with that one.

Looking at CCM as a whole I can see how it can just end up a rat's nest of worldly junk. If you don't want to sort through it I understand that. I'm not planning on sorting through it either. In [b]this[/b] case, however, someone else did the sorting and came up with a gem. I am going to recognize that because there was truth in those lyrics. I can't deny that truth.

Thanks for responding. Sorry if I'm not making too much sense. I know what I see but seem to lack the gift of expressing what I see. :frog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Jerry"]
Since when does a song being emotional make it a good song? It is vague - I don't want fluff in my life or in my church. You can make it mean whatever you want, and make it speak about whoever you want. I am tired of assuming something in mainstream Christianity is referring to Christ - because maybe it isn't. The Catholic listening to it might make it refer to Mary - because that is the mindset they are coming to the song with. The New Age person might apply it to someone else because of their mindset. The Mormon or cultist might apply it specifically to God the Father and definitely not towards Christ because of their mindset. I would rather have a clear song that says something. This is one of the main reasons I stopped listening to CCM - Sure, a lot of it seems great when you are assuming that it is Christian and talking about Christ - but something that doesn't actually mention Christ is NOT Christian, no matter how much we want it to be...
[/quote]

I give up.

Last time I checked out the word "wept" in the Bible, there was an awful lot of it going on.

Since when is a song devoid of emotion a good song just because it is devoid of emotion?

I can't apologize for feeling emotion when I read certain things and my heart soars up to the Lord. Or for feeling love or conviction because of what I've read.

I won't do it. I can't. It would be a lie.

I'm not responsible for what people read into things. They are. If they venerate Mary THEY are doing that. What has that got to do with me praising the Lord with things that are true. I just don't get this at all. I feel like I'm from another planet on this issue. :?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I didn't say we were to sing songs void of emotion - when I listen to some of my favourite songs there is a lot of emotion involved.

According to 1 Corinthians 14, we are to sing with our understanding - our emotions come secondary. However that particular song is very vague and therefore purely emotional. Listening to many of these charismatic choruses, I can see where they get the "feelings" from - when you repeat a phrase over and over, hear the same rhythm over and over (and often slightly faster and faster as the song goes on), it can effect your emotions (especially when the charismatic praise leader is getting them to jump up and down - seen that before!) - BUT THAT IS NOT WORSHIP (or in these cases in a charismatic church, and often in other churches who use the same choruses or music, that is worshipping the music, floating on a feeling, getting high on an adrenaline rush - it is a physical and emotional experience, but that does not make it worship of God because someone got a rush out of it).

1 Corinthians 14:15 [i]What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.[/i]

Psalms 47:7 [i]For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.[/i]

When a song doesn't say a whole lot - you may be entirely sincere and fervent, but you are bringing your own meaning into it - which is maybe why you personally may be worshipping the Lord during the song (because of your own Biblical understanding that you are bringing into it - I am not denying that you may truly be worshipping the Lord) - but the song itself doesn't contain much.

I would rather listen to something that contains some meaning that I can sing to with understanding (as we are commanded to do), not something I need to read or assume into it. How many others are reading or assuming the wrong thing (or something unbiblical) - we assume because we take it the Biblical way (regardless of the actual doctrine of the songwriter), that it was intended that way and others are also taking it that way. I know people who deny the deity of Christ or believe in a works-based salvation that listen to many of these worship songs and still get caught up in them. There are Oneness Pentecostals out there writing some of these worship songs (Philips, Craig, and Dean being one such group - Oneness Pentecostals believe speaking in tongues and baptism is essential to be saved) - therefore they do not intend or teach the same things about Christ or salvation that we are reading into their songs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jerry I believe there is meat in one verse of scripture. I can meditate on a verse and come out with all kinds of truth from it. Yes, I do bring my background to it as do we all.

This is my daily bread
This is my daily bread
Your very word spoken to me

This verse alone is full of rich truth. The word is the truth. The Word is Jesus. The Word is the Bible. The Word is my Daily Bread. It has to be fresh each day like mannah. A new portion every day. Don't go back to yesterday and say "this is what I read it will sustain me for today", don't save up scripture today for tomorrow and skip tomorrow's gathering. Gather each day and eat each day.

Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Maybe it isn't a chapter of scripture or a bible story but it is still truth. Maybe it isn't your traditional 4 verse hymn but it can connect me with the Lord for a time.

Isn't that what it's all about? I get so weary of hedges being put around the people to keep them from falling. Hedges around scripture. It gets to a point sometimes where the people confuse the hedges with scripture. And that makes me weary and sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="88keys"]
Just as all the food groups are required for a well balanced diet so all the different songs are needed in the church so you can reach out and bless the hearts of the many, many different people sitting in the pew.
[/quote]

I'm afraid I don't see this principle in Scripture. Sounds more like a "Purpose Driven Church" philosophy...find out what people need or like and give it to them wrapped up in Jesus. That's all backwards...give them Christ and the pure Gospel and He will fill them to overflowing, and many of those so-called "needs" will fade into the twilight. Applying this to music....stay with what honors and lifts up Christ and let people change their tastes to fit that music, rather than change the music to fit the hearers. There's a lot of people out there with "itching ears" in relation to music, just as there are in relation to doctrine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree, Sojourner - we should be training our congregations to appreciate and like good music, not pander to what they already liked growing up as a lost person. Well, they are already used to Rock, so let's give them Christian Rock...

As an unsaved person or as a new believer listening to CCM, I had no desire or appreciation for most hymns - and the ones I was exposed to were normally adapted to rock music (even if it was "soft" rock, easy listening). Finally God dealt with me about this area of CCM - after thoroughly researching it, seeing all the deception, compromise, ecumenicalism, and just plain apostasy, I was disgusted and turned from it and put it completely out of my life (and I did research on ALL the groups I ever listened to or were familiar with). About the same time, I came to find out what IFB churches were and our was KJVonly and did not listen to Christian rock (which I made sure before I even went there). Yes, it did take me a little while to get used to some of the hymns - my flesh did not like many of them at first - though my mind and my spirit did (because of the content of the lyrics). As time went on, I trained myself to like the good music and even more detest the bad (there was a little while where my flesh still liked the CCM, but my mind and spirit rejected it - so there was a battle when I would be exposed to one of those old songs. But the more discernment I got in this area - the more I craved the good, and detested/abhorred the bad).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wasn't talking about pragmatism in musical approach. I was talking about presenting music that is Biblically sound yet differs in style.

Although it's obvious we will never agree and you will never see the point I'm trying to make, I'm glad this discussion is still civil. I do appreciate that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Calvary"]
If you are so proud as to think that your opinion is more important than what the Bible plainly says or that anyone that disagrees with your personal conviction is the enemy of truth, you should go back to annoying your wife and offending your neighbors. What follows will only ruin your day.
[/quote]

Maybe you might want to watch the way you address the other members here - despite your difference of "opinion".

For someone who isn't for worldly types of music, you do a great job of defending them!

No, there is no direct command that says, "Thou shalt not listen to Rock music" but there are a lot of principles that lead to that conclusion. Lifestyle and association are big ones. Take it to the opposite extreme if you want, and say that all musical styles are valid. Somehow you seem to be forgetting that Satan was involved with music in Heaven if you think that there is no corrupt music today.

Believe what you want, but stop promoting the idea that it doesn't matter and it is all just a matter of personal preference. You know that is against the stand of our site - if you can't deal with that, then don't post on the subject. We don't need you to come here and "correct us all."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
Was this really necessary?

[quote="Calvary"]
If you are so proud as to think that your opinion is more important than what the Bible plainly says or that anyone that disagrees with your personal conviction is the enemy of truth, you should go back to annoying your wife and offending your neighbors. What follows will only ruin your day.
[/quote]

What follows was very well put, but stopped short of the point where it was logical to take a stand on something. It doesn't make sense to say "your reasons for not listening to this music are poor" but then claim "MY reasons are very good reasons, but I'm not saying what they are". Calvary, I think we would all appreciate it if you just came out and said what you mean instead of trying to play devil's advocate.

No, the Bible doesn't speak about specific modern styles of music, but it does promote modesty and purity. There is nothing modest and pure about the styles mentioned at the end of the post. I don't agree with writing off "love not the world" as a reason to avoid something. The Bible goes on to say exactly what is in the world: the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life. Is there any better summary anywhere of the content of rock, country, jazz, etc? Anyone who doesn't believe rock music is all about sex should take note of how people dance to it... no way should we "worship" the Lord with any kind of music that elicits that response from the body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My apologies to any one that had such pride that they thought I meant them. I had no one in particular in mind. The post is general, as is the audience. I will delete said offensive paragraph in hopes of honoring my brethren's wishes.

May God bless you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
[quote="Calvary"]
My apologies to any one that had such pride that they thought I meant them. I had no one in particular in mind. The post is general, as is the audience. I will delete said offensive paragraph in hopes of honoring my brethren's wishes.

May God bless you.
[/quote]

I didn't think you meant anyone in particular, and although I can't speak for anyone else, I'm sure no one took it personally. I didn't speak up because I felt personally affronted, I just happen think that even for a general audience the comment you made was rude and condescending. Your apology is equally condescending, but I do thank you for removing the original comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Calvary"]
My apologies to any one that had such pride that they thought I meant them.

May God bless you.
[/quote]

Seems like you are contradicting yourself here... :roll:

If you really wanted to be a blessing, you wouldn't be so condescending or rude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 49 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...