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What does the Bible say about music?

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[quote="hannah"]
Well, I don't put the hand all the way in the air because some of the folks there could probably have a stroke, :D but it just has a tendency to turn upward [u][b]probably shoulder high[/b][/u], Chelle. I do know that David danced with joy, like Jerry said.
[/quote]

That's about as high as I will allow my hand to go, too. I don't feel [i][b]at all[/b][/i] comfortable with putting them all the way up in the air, or even as high as the top of my head.

I [b][i]also[/i][/b] came from a background of rock & roll -- grew up with the stuff.

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Years ago in a revival service in an old country Baptist Church a woman in the congregation, ever time a song was sung, she would have her hand in the air waving and waving.

I noticed to, when she would do this, many of the people would look her way.

Is it wrong, completely wrong, I don't know the answer to that.

All I know is my own thoughts and convictions which are.

Do I have to raise my hands in the air to worship God? No.

Do I have to raise my hands in the air for God to know that I am worshiping Him? No.

When a person does this, are they really worshiping God more than someone who is not holding their hands up and waving them? No.

When some one raises their hands, are they really drawing more attention to self from others in the congregation? Seems they are, as I said above, I notice when she did this, many would be looking her way.

Seems to me, some are seemingly saying by raising and for them to keep on waving their hands, God here I am, here I am God, don't look towards other look at me, don't you see me, here I am, like they have to keep doing this, for God to see them in the congregation, as if, if they did not do this, God would not be able to know, they are worshiping Him.

After this church service I ask a member of the church about this woman. She had been a member of a charismatic church, and converted to their church and had been baptized. No one put her down for doing this nor told her not to, I think they handle this properly.

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http://shop.store.yahoo.com/worshipmusic/23459.html

Go to this page and click on "1.Breathe (Original Master Recording & Demonstration)"

When our choir first sang this song many of us had tears streaming down our faces as we realized how much we needed God and His word in our lives. I know many of you will recoil at listening to this CCM song, but it was and still is a tremendous blessing to our church family.

Here are the complete lyrics for this beautiful song:

This is the air I breathe
This is the air I breathe
Your holy presence living in me

This is my daily bread
This is my daily bread
Your very word spoken to me

And I I'm desperate for you
And I I'm I'm lost without you

This is the air I breathe
This is the air I breathe
Your holy presence living in me

This is my daily bread
this is my daily bread
your very word spoken to me

And I'm, I'm desperate for you
And I'm, I'm lost without you

And I'm desperate for you
And I'm, I'm lost without you.

I'm lost without you.

I'm lost without you.

I'm desperate for you.

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And by the way, I will not post any more CCM songs or lyrics out of respect for the beliefs of the mods on this board - I just wanted to share a differing viewpoint than what I was seeing in this thread.

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I realize I'm probably not the best person to get involved in a music discussion because my standards in this area are so high. There are even many IFB colleges and groups that I don't care to listen to because because of elements in their music. I understand that much of music preference is just that - preference.

Breathiness, sliding, twanging, nasal screeching, climbing and drawling are all out in my book because they are not proper technique and I can't stand to hear it.

However, when an "artist" or genre of music is welcomed and accepted by the world (Hellywood movies, talk shows, etc.), then to me there is something wrong. I would say that most of Christian Rock and CCM fits into that category.

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Wow, that was a hard song to write ... And where is Christ mentioned? I've heard this song before, and as a previous choir director, I considered using it. But, as that choir director, I was also responsible for the message in the songs. This song has no message.

It does use the word "holy" twice, so there's a hint that it may be a religious song. But the other lyrics are ambivalent. I'd be lost without my wife, so it could be a love song. How do you really know whom it's addressing -- because it's sung in church, it's automatically sung to Jesus? I don't think so.

The constant repeating of words (chanting?) serves only to appeal to the emotions, just as you said it did when the song was sung at your church. The soft melody just adds to the emotional flavor.

The "old" hymns have messages in their words. Many of them would make great sermon outlines. A lot of the new music today just doesn't have the same strong messages of the songs of yesteryear.

I'm not opposed to all the new music being written today. There are some wonderful songs being written today. But most of today's "Christian" music follows what you have posted here.

Mitch

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Some said that CMM churches (I am not sure what those are exactly) don't emphasize preaching as much as they do music. The opinion duly noted as such I merely wanted to refer the reader to the two words as they are found in the Bible.
The verb "preach" and its conjugations is found 122 times in the Bible while the verb "sing" and its conjugations is found 271 times.So whether or not a "CMM church" sings more than it preaches I can't say. But what I can say as a fact is that Bible speaks more on singing than it does preaching. Our church service would be about 50 -50 if one had to calculate it. I'd say there is a good 45 minutes of the chior, the congregationals, specials, announcemnts and what not. The message runs from 45 -60 minutes on an average.


____________________________________________________


What does the New Testament say about singing and music? The references are few and they are not specific.
First in Matthew 26:30 and Mark 14:26 we are told that after the last supper Jesus and his disciples sung a hymn before making their way to the Mount of Olives. This establishes a number of truths.

Jesus sang.
He sang hymns.
He sang with his disciples.
They could sing in the face of coming trouble.

There is nothing stated in the scriptures as to what they sang, though plenty of commentators claim to know. The fact that musical accompaniment is not mentioned does not mean that there was none and this silence cannot be used to state that musical instruments should not be used in the church.
Then we have the account of the 2 missionaries, beaten and jailed for preaching the gospel. Their pain and incarceration did not harm their souls.

[b]Act 16:25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. [/b]

Surely the Lord giveth a song in the night.

Next we have Romans 15.

[b]Rom 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. [/b]

The first notion of instruction regarding music to be found in the New Testament is in a passage, not about singing but about the misuse of the gift of tongues at Corinth. 1 Corinthians 14 makes it clear that we are to sing in a language known to ourselves and to our hearers. Songs of the spirit are also to be songs of the understanding. The saint ought to know what he is singing and what he is singing about.

[b]1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. [/b]

Then we have a very direct teaching in Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16.
The former says, [b]Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;[/b] while the latter says, [b]Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. [/b]In the first verse there are some points of interest.
a.) Singing is to be directed both man-ward and God-ward.
b.) One is to minister truth, comfort, strength and such like to other believers through the use of music. And
c.) one is to express their hearts love, praise, longing, cares and so forth to the Lord by use of song.

The Colossians passage concurs. Our hearts are to be filled with grace and melody. From such a heart we sing. Our songs should be rich in scripture. They should be characterized by wisdom and those hearing them should learn something of the Lord or be admonished in their walk with him.

[i]I sure hate to sound like a broken record, but there is nothing in these verses about a variety of music, its tempo or how it is to be sung. The emphasis is on the heart of the singer, the object of the song and the content of the lyrics. [/i]

Psalms are mentioned 10 times in the Bible, not counting the references to the book that bears the title. The etymology of the word traces back to words in the ancient languages which mean to touch (an instrument, a heart, or an idea), to beat (as in to tap out a meter) or to sing. It is defined as a sacred song or hymn, composed on a divine subject or in praise to God. So considering this, we are to sing in such a way that touches upon some truth or touches the heart of the hearer.
Our song may be aided by an instrument; it will have a beat and will be an outpouring of the melody in our heart.
A hymn is defined even more simply. It is a song or an ode. While a Psalm may be about any divine subject, a hymn has to do with glorifying God. Therefore, we say a Psalm may touch on any aspect of the believer

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(This is in reply to Chev1958's post....)

Ahhh well, I understand your point about the lyrics, and if that were the only style of music in our church you would have a point. But we sing standard hymnal fare, choruses, modern songs, basically many music styles. In fact, one soloist sang, "The Lord's Prayer" a few weeks ago. Absolutely lovely.

We strive for balance in our music program and that sometimes includes songs that by themselves might be considered "weak" to some.

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
Breathiness, sliding, twanging, nasal screeching, climbing and drawling are all out in my book because they are not proper technique and I can't stand to hear it.
[/quote]

what are these techniques? I can figure out Breathiness but not the rest.

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Are you familiar with Country 'n Western music? Those elements are all in Country music and has carried over into Christian music in the name of Southern Gospel and Country Gospel.

Sliding is when the singer sliiiiiiiiiiiides up to the note he is trying to reach instead of landing square on top of it.

Twanging and drawling are cultural; I'll grant that one.

Screeching is when the singer doesn't have the range for a particular song. They can't reach the high notes so they force them out with a horrible sound.

They also add notes that aren't there.


Listen to these:

http://www.countrymusicplanet.com/pass.ram

http://www.countrymusicplanet.com/father.ram


And compare them to this:

http://www.oldchristianmusic.com/mprodu ... glory.html - scroll down to "Nothing But The Blood". "Sing, O Heavens is good too". Really all the ones on this CD are good.


I know, I'm meddling. :lol: There is room for artistic interpretation and some of you are going to say, "I like that style!". :mrgreen: I know but Mike asked me what I meant by technique.

Those first two links make me :freak:

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[quote="Jerry80871852"]
Years ago in a revival service in an old country Baptist Church a woman in the congregation, ever time a song was sung, she would have her hand in the air waving and waving.

I noticed to, when she would do this, many of the people would look her way.

Is it wrong, completely wrong, I don't know the answer to that.

All I know is my own thoughts and convictions which are.

Do I have to raise my hands in the air to worship God? No.

Do I have to raise my hands in the air for God to know that I am worshiping Him? No.

When a person does this, are they really worshiping God more than someone who is not holding their hands up and waving them? No.

When some one raises their hands, are they really drawing more attention to self from others in the congregation? Seems they are, as I said above, I notice when she did this, many would be looking her way.

Seems to me, some are seemingly saying by raising and for them to keep on waving their hands, God here I am, here I am God, don't look towards other look at me, don't you see me, here I am, like they have to keep doing this, for God to see them in the congregation, as if, if they did not do this, God would not be able to know, they are worshiping Him.

After this church service I ask a member of the church about this woman. She had been a member of a charismatic church, and converted to their church and had been baptized. No one put her down for doing this nor told her not to, I think they handle this properly.
[/quote]

This is why we sit in the front of the church. I don't have to worry about people fidgetting, or straightening their clothes, or what they are wearing, or how high their hair is, or how short it is, or how long it is, or if they close their eyes, or if they keep their eyes open, or if they look respectful enough, or if they don't, or if they are singing or if they are not, or if their kids are squirming, or if they wear pants, or if their jewelry seems to flashy, or whatever ... I enjoy sitting in the front because I can concentrate on the worship service and the message more. I am a very visual person and easily distracted. I feel I need to take measures to control my own easily distracted nature.

This is the reason that I only let my hands reach up to my shoulders. It distracts people and some people will figuratively have a stroke if they feel you are being charismatic. I don't want them to not be able to worship because they are worrying about me and the placement of my hands. If I want to reach my arms up to heaven, I can do that at home.

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[quote]
I know, I'm meddling. There is room for artistic interpretation and some of you are going to say, "I like that style!". I know but Mike asked me what I meant by technique.
[/quote]

I didn't care for the country rendition of Pass Me Not By a poem by Fanny Crosby set to music years ago. (Truth is that Sister Fanny never worte any "songs")I have never really cared for Country and Western personally.

It's not my preference at all. The other link was a very nice piece of music that I would buy for myself. In fact I am thankful for the link to yet another source of music that lies within my own preferences.

But the Biblical truth remains all the same, either selection is neither condemned or condoned by the word of God.

God bless you.

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[quote="88keys"]
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/worshipmusic/23459.html

Go to this page and click on "1.Breathe (Original Master Recording & Demonstration)"

When our choir first sang this song many of us had tears streaming down our faces as we realized how much we needed God and His word in our lives. I know many of you will recoil at listening to this CCM song, but it was and still is a tremendous blessing to our church family.

Here are the complete lyrics for this beautiful song:

This is the air I breathe
This is the air I breathe
Your holy presence living in me

This is my daily bread
This is my daily bread
Your very word spoken to me

And I I'm desperate for you
And I I'm I'm lost without you

This is the air I breathe
This is the air I breathe
Your holy presence living in me

This is my daily bread
this is my daily bread
your very word spoken to me

And I'm, I'm desperate for you
And I'm, I'm lost without you

And I'm desperate for you
And I'm, I'm lost without you.

I'm lost without you.

I'm lost without you.

I'm desperate for you.
[/quote]

Maybe I will listen to it later. I love the lyrics. I really don't prefer the CCM that I've heard, but these lyrics really touch my heart.

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[quote="hannah"]
[quote="88keys"]http://shop.store.yahoo.com/worshipmusic/23459.html

Go to this page and click on "1.Breathe (Original Master Recording & Demonstration)"

When our choir first sang this song many of us had tears streaming down our faces as we realized how much we needed God and His word in our lives. I know many of you will recoil at listening to this CCM song, but it was and still is a tremendous blessing to our church family.

Here are the complete lyrics for this beautiful song:

This is the air I breathe
This is the air I breathe
Your holy presence living in me

This is my daily bread
This is my daily bread
Your very word spoken to me

And I I'm desperate for you
And I I'm I'm lost without you

This is the air I breathe
This is the air I breathe
Your holy presence living in me

This is my daily bread
this is my daily bread
your very word spoken to me

And I'm, I'm desperate for you
And I'm, I'm lost without you

And I'm desperate for you
And I'm, I'm lost without you.

I'm lost without you.

I'm lost without you.

I'm desperate for you.
[/quote]

Maybe I will listen to it later. I love the lyrics. I really don't prefer the CCM that I've heard, but these lyrics really touch my heart.[/quote]

It might touch my heart, if it told who I was desperate for, which it does not.

Mitch laid out the thoughts about this song quite good and I agree 100% with him.

Any good strong in the Lord song leader, choir direction would not use this song in church service, it has NO true message.

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In my mind, music choices are almost like a buffet. You have your meatier choices (A Mighty Fortress is Our God), your starches (Standing on the Promises), your veggies/salads/fruits (choruses) and then the desserts (songs that are fluffy - not a lot of substance but are sung anyway). And there you have it - a WELL BALANCED music program. All the musical food groups represented. Just as all the food groups are required for a well balanced diet so all the different songs are needed in the church so you can reach out and bless the hearts of the many, many different people sitting in the pew.

Joe may not be so fond of A Mighty Fortress, but he may loudly shout "amen" at Victory in Jesus. Sue really may not care for Standing on the Promises but she weeps when she hears In the Garden on the radio. Pete really likes good old Southern Gospel style the best so he gets fired up when Because He Lives is sung as the choir special.

Music is the language of the soul and each person's tastes are unique. God made us that way so we should celebrate it, not bicker over it.

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[quote]
It might touch my heart, if it told who I was desperate for, which it does not.
[/quote]

I don't need to be told who I am desperate for. The message seemed pretty obvious to me. If I were to sing this song, I would be singing it to Jesus because He is the only one who is my Daily Bread, my mannah, the Word, and every other thing that sustains my spiritual life, yes, even the air that keeps me alive. No one else could fit into the context of that song for me, so it works for me.

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That's right, Hannah - you hit the nail on the head. Many of our choir members were touched by the WORDS of the song - not the SLOWNESS of the melody as somebody suggested earlier. We were singing the song in praise to God and I believe He accepted our sacrifice of praise.

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[quote]
In my mind, music choices are almost like a buffet. You have your meatier choices (A Mighty Fortress is Our God), your starches (Standing on the Promises), your veggies/salads/fruits (choruses) and then the desserts (songs that are fluffy - not a lot of substance but are sung anyway). And there you have it - a WELL BALANCED music program.
[/quote]

:goodpost: [b][u]88keys[/u][/b]! Don't get me wrong, I love meat and it's an important part of a well-balanced diet. But who would want an all-meat diet? :mrgreen:

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At the risk of offending anyone with this analogy, I'm proceeding cautiously.

Instead of a buffet, I would describe using wordly styled music as going into the trash can behind that buffet.

Why would I want to dig through the trash, hoping that I can find a morsel that I can eat, then be able to lift it up and proclaim to all who are entering the restaurant, "This is where the food is!"?

Yes food is there, but there is much more wholesome, good food inside.

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[quote]
Instead of a buffet, I would describe using wordly styled music as going into the trash can behind that buffet.
[/quote]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "worldly styled." I know what *I* mean if I used that term, but I'm not sure what YOU mean.

What about lyrics? Are you just referring to the music part or are you talking about the lyrics too? Did you find those song lyrics posted above "trash"?

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