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SisterHolly

What's wrong with Christian Rock?

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I used to be a Techno and Soft Rock producer. If that music is so good, can you tell me why I got a sort of depressed feeling when I would be working on a few songs all day and why my heart would usually beat in an abnormal way after producing?

Note: The depressed feeling was minor and it only happened if I'd been producing more music that day than usual.

Hello Samo, I see you've ignored my above post.

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Hello Samo, I see you've ignored my above post.


I can't tell you that. It's true that music has the ability to affect moods, but honestly how does that pertain to this debate whatsoever? Yes, i ignored your last post, because it was utterly useless to post.

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Music is one of the most powerful tools of satan. he is in control of most music on earth because he is the prince of the air.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience

Satan controls the tones of music(bass music exites men sexually and electric guitars exites women sexually) this is my main arguement with rock style music.
Also the phrase Rock n Roll was originally a sexually phrase meaning to have sex in a car.

So what i am saying is that a church should not play loud powerful music because sexual feelings can enter the worship and will hender our relationship with our Father.

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I can't tell you that. It's true that music has the ability to affect moods, but honestly how does that pertain to this debate whatsoever? Yes, i ignored your last post, because it was utterly useless to post.

Well, if certain genre of music can affect your mood negatively, what makes it good? like, duh!

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I can't tell you that. It's true that music has the ability to affect moods' date=' but honestly how does that pertain to this debate whatsoever? Yes, i ignored your last post, because it was utterly useless to post.[/quote']

Hm, is that your version of contructive or edifying criticism?

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Not all music effects everyone negatively. Sure, that music affected YOU negatively, but if you were producing it for other people then obviously someone liked it.

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Just because someone "likes" something, whether music or something else, doesn't mean it's good or that it's good for them.

Consider those who like to get drunk; or like to have sex with dozens of partners; or who like doing drugs; or who like blasting music through their headphones so loud it damages their hearing; or those who like stealing; etc.

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God expects you to worship Him in His way - not in a way that pleases the flesh. Sure, you may get some emotional high from repetitive rock choruses - but that is not worship. Worship is not a feeling, though it may affect our feelings at times.

Besides, true worship is worshipping God with your whole life - with a life that is devoted to God - not some rock concert for two hours (or whatever a week), then going about in your normal worldly manner of living.

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but thats not what we're doing. We're not having worship and then sinning as soon as we leave. And btw: In the bible they used loud music for worship.

1 Chronicles 15: 16
And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers with instruments of musick, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.

2 Chronicles 5: 13
It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;

Amos 6: 5
That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;

"They invent themselves instuments of music, like David" You see, using instruments that are modern to please God is not wrong. ROCK MUSIC is not wrong if you use it in the right way. David used his "modern" instruments to please God in song. Why can't we?

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but thats not what we're doing. We're not having worship and then sinning as soon as we leave. And btw: In the bible they used loud music for worship.

1 Chronicles 15: 16
And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers with instruments of musick, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.

2 Chronicles 5: 13
It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;

Amos 6: 5
That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;

"They invent themselves instuments of music, like David" You see, using instruments that are modern to please God is not wrong. ROCK MUSIC is not wrong if you use it in the right way. David used his "modern" instruments to please God in song. Why can't we?


X19,

I'm curious::: What would it take to convince you??? What you are showing is that you are "locked-in" to your own philosophies and are not about to change. Am I right???

You know where we stand, you see our position in the rules, and yet you still continue to go on and on with your erroneous rhetoric.

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The issue isn't loud music - though I can guarantee they weren't having rock concerts and music at that volume level in the Bible! - nor is it old versus new music or songs - the issue is the STYLE of music. Rock music is the music of the world - it is sensual, fleshly, worldly - and all those things go against God and His Word.

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It would take some sensible answers. The problem I have is that, some want to apply scripture, but not ALL scripture. We follow these rules, but not those rules. And you can't do that. No one has really proven to me why rock music is wrong. They've given their speculations, but no one has given me any real proof. If I got said proof I would change my views on the subject. Yes, I'm "locked-in" to my own philosophies, but is that so wrong? At least I'm here looking for information. I'm not saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong. I'm actually looking for holes in my philosophies and you can't find any for me.

God took things of the world and made them new. The 12 disciples weren't pastors when Jesus found them. So why can't this be like that? Why can't something bad be taken to make something good?

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It would take some sensible answers. The problem I have is that' date=' some want to apply scripture, but not ALL scripture. We follow these rules, but not those rules. And you can't do that. No one has really [i']proven to me why rock music is wrong. They've given their speculations, but no one has given me any real proof. If I got said proof I would change my views on the subject. Yes, I'm "locked-in" to my own philosophies, but is that so wrong? At least I'm here looking for information.


It didn't take you long to contradict yourself. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm not saying I'm right and everyone else is wrong. I'm actually looking for holes in my philosophies and you can't find any for me.


If you would carefully and prayerfully open yourself up to the LORD He would lead you into all Truth, but as you said, you are indeed "locked in" to what you want to believe.

God took things of the world and made them new. The 12 disciples weren't pastors when Jesus found them. So why can't this be like that? Why can't something bad be taken to make something good?


You are comparing peaches and grapefruits. God uses the base things of this world to confound the wise, but that isn't the situation here. When it comes to music, God has His own designs of how it is to be done. He has no use for anything evil in it.

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It's not a contradiction, well maybe when you take it out of context. That surprises me. :thumbdown

I said I'm locked in, but looking for holes. That means i can be "unlocked."

I talk to God all the time and he does not say that rock music as worship is evil.

Worshipping with new music is not evil. It still glorifies God just as much as it did back in the day.

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What do you mean you "talk to God all the time and he does not say that rock music as worship is evil"?

This has nothing to do with new or old music. New music is written all the time. I write music, whether it is new or old is irrelevant. It is whether it is sensual or godly, fleshly or spiritual.

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There have been many verses quoted that have spoken about separation from the world. Worldy music is not to be used in worship because God is holy and cannot be worshipped by that which is profane.

God has created a new song in believer's hearts...but if we toy with the world's music, that new song is muddied by it. The Bible casts holes in your philosophies, but you aren't willing to accept scripture as "proof."

Many times conviction won't come because there is a lack of obedience. Obedience to the principles in the Word of God, however, will bring conviction. Turn away from the worldly "Christian" music for 6 months, and you will see your philosophies not just with holes, but blown to pieces!

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There have been many verses quoted that have spoken about separation from the world. Worldy music is not to be used in worship because God is holy and cannot be worshipped by that which is profane.

God has created a new song in believer's hearts...but if we toy with the world's music, that new song is muddied by it. The Bible casts holes in your philosophies, but you aren't willing to accept scripture as "proof."

Many times conviction won't come because there is a lack of obedience. Obedience to the principles in the Word of God, however, will bring conviction. Turn away from the worldly "Christian" music for 6 months, and you will see your philosophies not just with holes, but blown to pieces!


A hearty AMEN, HC. :thumb :lol :amen::goodpost:

...and to Kevin likewise. :smile :amen: :goodpost:

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Turn away from the worldly "Christian" music for 6 months, and you will see your philosophies not just with holes, but blown to pieces!


Interesting concept

Infact I will try that but I must ask how do you define what is holy and what is profane music?

What do you look for inorder to define it?

-----------------------------------

I apologise for some of samo's posts as he is a very passionate person who can sometimes get wrapped up in the arguement so much he forgets to look at things calmly

-----------------------------------

there is something I mst say about some of the posts people are making about the way they dress. This is a very uneducated response because while I agreeb that christians should be dressed modestly and take care over the way we dress. neither are we to dress in order to look appart from this world. Unlike what alot of paintings show jesus did not stand out physically he stood out spiritually. the world judges people on how they dress and so do you. Ironically by trying not to conform you have actually conformed more so. As many here have quoted "do not conform to this world but instead be transformed by the renewing of your MIND". Notice it does not talk about how we dress. no it speaks of our mind and how we think. I hope some people think about this.

-----------------------------------

I can't remeber who but did some one call the devil the prince of air?
seriously you give him far too much credit

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Interesting concept

Infact I will try that but I must ask how do you define what is holy and what is profane music?

What do you look for inorder to define it?

-----------------------------------

I apologise for some of samo's posts as he is a very passionate person who can sometimes get wrapped up in the arguement so much he forgets to look at things calmly

-----------------------------------

there is something I mst say about some of the posts people are making about the way they dress. This is a very uneducated response because while I agreeb that christians should be dressed modestly and take care over the way we dress. neither are we to dress in order to look appart from this world. Unlike what alot of paintings show jesus did not stand out physically he stood out spiritually. the world judges people on how they dress and so do you. Ironically by trying not to conform you have actually conformed more so. As many here have quoted "do not conform to this world but instead be transformed by the renewing of your MIND". Notice it does not talk about how we dress. no it speaks of our mind and how we think. I hope some people think about this.

-----------------------------------

I can't remeber who but did some one call the devil the prince of air?
seriously you give him far too much credit


suitman, you might be interested in this verse:

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

and

2 Corinthians 4:3,4 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Satan is very definitely the god of this world, and the prince of the power of the air. He has a lot more power than you think, and I'm afraid you are not giving him enough credit!!!! His whole aim in this life is to cause man to worship him instead of God (reference to Isaiah where he declared that he would make himself higher than God Almighty), and he does whatever he can to advance himself. And that includes music and dress. The Bible tells us he can transform himself into an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"), and he can fool anyone of us who are not in the Word daily and fully surrendered to Christ.

We are to be in the world, but not of it. We are identified by our clothing - people who look at me have no doubt that I am not involved in the grunge, punk, rap, etc., world. They don't necessarily know that I am a Christian, but they assume that I am most likely religious (it is my job to speak my Christianity to them). The Bible tells us that God looks on the heart, but it also tells us that man looks on the outward appearance. If someone came to my door wearing grunge and told me he was a preacher, could he come in and talk about the Bible, I'd shut and lock my door and get my gun (and call my hubby to come home and talk to him if the guy was still there)! Yep - that's a judgment, but it's the kind that people (including the unsaved) make every day because of what someone is wearing.

As far as how you can know which type of music to avoid for 6 months - if it sounds like the rock music of the world, avoid it!! If it sounds like the crooning love songs of the world, avoid it. If it sounds like honky-tonk, avoid it. If it sounds like grunge, punk, rap, etc., avoid it. The sound of that kind of music is pretty self-explanatory. Get an old-fashioned hymn book and listen to those songs played as written by piano, strings, etc. And pray - ask God to give you the discernment and wisdom that He promises. If you are serious, He will do it.

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Interesting concept

Infact I will try that but I must ask how do you define what is holy and what is profane music?

What do you look for inorder to define it?

Here's a link to some really good sermons on Music and how to tell whether it is holy or profane:

http://www.bethelbaptist.ca/audiofile_by_event.php

There are three messages by Frank Garlock, who co-authored Music in the Balance and there is one message by Alan Ives called: How To Tell The Right Kind Of Music

I'm downloading those messages now--haven't heard any yet, but plan to listen later today.

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Interesting concept

Infact I will try that but I must ask how do you define what is holy and what is profane music?

What do you look for inorder to define it?



Great! We'll hold you to that. Look at the articles LindaR posted, buy Garlock's book and read it.

Then for the next 6 months do not play any Christian Rock at all but rather go to Old Christian Radio, click on the player of your choice and listen every time you are at your computer. Also buy some of the CDs they have available. After that, tell us what the difference is. :thumb

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Great! We'll hold you to that. Look at the articles LindaR posted, buy Garlock's book and read it.

Then for the next 6 months do not play any Christian Rock at all but rather go to Old Christian Radio, click on the player of your choice and listen every time you are at your computer. Also buy some of the CDs they have available. After that, tell us what the difference is. :thumb

:amen: :thumb

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Christian rock has no Place what so ever in a Church. Read the Bible study by Liberty http://www.libertygospeltracts.com that has Music. You will learn why we are against Christian Rock. I don't like Christian rock it's too worldly. However, I do listen to some CCM but I don't glorify it.

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suitman, you might be interested in this verse:

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."


this might be talking of any demon not necessarily the devil himself but I suppose that lies in interpretation


2 Corinthians 4:3,4 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Satan is very definitely the god of this world, and the prince of the power of the air. He has a lot more power than you think, and I'm afraid you are not giving him enough credit!!!! His whole aim in this life is to cause man to worship him instead of God (reference to Isaiah where he declared that he would make himself higher than God Almighty), and he does whatever he can to advance himself. And that includes music and dress. The Bible tells us he can transform himself into an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"), and he can fool anyone of us who are not in the Word daily and fully surrendered to Christ.

I would not say the devil is the GOD of the world for GOD is the GOD of this world. Yes the devil has tainted it but in the end god has the final say. The way you word that makes him sound equal or greater to god. and I encourage you not to do that. I am assuming it is just your wording rather than your demonology thats the problem.

We are to be in the world, but not of it. We are identified by our clothing - people who look at me have no doubt that I am not involved in the grunge, punk, rap, etc., world. They don't necessarily know that I am a Christian, but they assume that I am most likely religious (it is my job to speak my Christianity to them). The Bible tells us that God looks on the heart, but it also tells us that man looks on the outward appearance. If someone came to my door wearing grunge and told me he was a preacher, could he come in and talk about the Bible, I'd shut and lock my door and get my gun (and call my hubby to come home and talk to him if the guy was still there)! Yep - that's a judgment, but it's the kind that people (including the unsaved) make every day because of what someone is wearing.


I understand where you're coming from with this but please rethink this idea. I wouldn't like grunge punk or rap looking people around me either but at which point do you draw the line.
Is jeans to far?
Is trousers on a girl to far?
where is the line and if someone is not dressing that way should you rebuke them or show compassion and then teach them why?

heres my example. If someone came into your church dreesed in jeans and a T shirt. they didn't look to grungy but reasonably neat. would you rebuke them, ignore them, tell them to change, or have grace and say to them that it would be better if they came properly dressed next time?


As far as how you can know which type of music to avoid for 6 months - if it sounds like the rock music of the world, avoid it!! If it sounds like the crooning love songs of the world, avoid it. If it sounds like honky-tonk, avoid it. If it sounds like grunge, punk, rap, etc., avoid it. The sound of that kind of music is pretty self-explanatory. Get an old-fashioned hymn book and listen to those songs played as written by piano, strings, etc. And pray - ask God to give you the discernment and wisdom that He promises. If you are serious, He will do it.


okay thats the rules I'll go by and I'll avoid the CC music for 6 months. but one thing
What is honky tonk?

I

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