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What's wrong with Christian Rock?


SisterHolly

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What do you mean you "talk to God all the time and he does not say that rock music as worship is evil"?

This has nothing to do with new or old music. New music is written all the time. I write music, whether it is new or old is irrelevant. It is whether it is sensual or godly, fleshly or spiritual.

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There have been many verses quoted that have spoken about separation from the world. Worldy music is not to be used in worship because God is holy and cannot be worshipped by that which is profane.

God has created a new song in believer's hearts...but if we toy with the world's music, that new song is muddied by it. The Bible casts holes in your philosophies, but you aren't willing to accept scripture as "proof."

Many times conviction won't come because there is a lack of obedience. Obedience to the principles in the Word of God, however, will bring conviction. Turn away from the worldly "Christian" music for 6 months, and you will see your philosophies not just with holes, but blown to pieces!

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There have been many verses quoted that have spoken about separation from the world. Worldy music is not to be used in worship because God is holy and cannot be worshipped by that which is profane.

God has created a new song in believer's hearts...but if we toy with the world's music, that new song is muddied by it. The Bible casts holes in your philosophies, but you aren't willing to accept scripture as "proof."

Many times conviction won't come because there is a lack of obedience. Obedience to the principles in the Word of God, however, will bring conviction. Turn away from the worldly "Christian" music for 6 months, and you will see your philosophies not just with holes, but blown to pieces!


A hearty AMEN, HC. :thumb :lol :amen::goodpost:

...and to Kevin likewise. :smile :amen: :goodpost:
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Turn away from the worldly "Christian" music for 6 months, and you will see your philosophies not just with holes, but blown to pieces!


Interesting concept

Infact I will try that but I must ask how do you define what is holy and what is profane music?

What do you look for inorder to define it?

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I apologise for some of samo's posts as he is a very passionate person who can sometimes get wrapped up in the arguement so much he forgets to look at things calmly

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there is something I mst say about some of the posts people are making about the way they dress. This is a very uneducated response because while I agreeb that christians should be dressed modestly and take care over the way we dress. neither are we to dress in order to look appart from this world. Unlike what alot of paintings show jesus did not stand out physically he stood out spiritually. the world judges people on how they dress and so do you. Ironically by trying not to conform you have actually conformed more so. As many here have quoted "do not conform to this world but instead be transformed by the renewing of your MIND". Notice it does not talk about how we dress. no it speaks of our mind and how we think. I hope some people think about this.

-----------------------------------

I can't remeber who but did some one call the devil the prince of air?
seriously you give him far too much credit
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Interesting concept

Infact I will try that but I must ask how do you define what is holy and what is profane music?

What do you look for inorder to define it?

-----------------------------------

I apologise for some of samo's posts as he is a very passionate person who can sometimes get wrapped up in the arguement so much he forgets to look at things calmly

-----------------------------------

there is something I mst say about some of the posts people are making about the way they dress. This is a very uneducated response because while I agreeb that christians should be dressed modestly and take care over the way we dress. neither are we to dress in order to look appart from this world. Unlike what alot of paintings show jesus did not stand out physically he stood out spiritually. the world judges people on how they dress and so do you. Ironically by trying not to conform you have actually conformed more so. As many here have quoted "do not conform to this world but instead be transformed by the renewing of your MIND". Notice it does not talk about how we dress. no it speaks of our mind and how we think. I hope some people think about this.

-----------------------------------

I can't remeber who but did some one call the devil the prince of air?
seriously you give him far too much credit


suitman, you might be interested in this verse:

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

and

2 Corinthians 4:3,4 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Satan is very definitely the god of this world, and the prince of the power of the air. He has a lot more power than you think, and I'm afraid you are not giving him enough credit!!!! His whole aim in this life is to cause man to worship him instead of God (reference to Isaiah where he declared that he would make himself higher than God Almighty), and he does whatever he can to advance himself. And that includes music and dress. The Bible tells us he can transform himself into an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"), and he can fool anyone of us who are not in the Word daily and fully surrendered to Christ.

We are to be in the world, but not of it. We are identified by our clothing - people who look at me have no doubt that I am not involved in the grunge, punk, rap, etc., world. They don't necessarily know that I am a Christian, but they assume that I am most likely religious (it is my job to speak my Christianity to them). The Bible tells us that God looks on the heart, but it also tells us that man looks on the outward appearance. If someone came to my door wearing grunge and told me he was a preacher, could he come in and talk about the Bible, I'd shut and lock my door and get my gun (and call my hubby to come home and talk to him if the guy was still there)! Yep - that's a judgment, but it's the kind that people (including the unsaved) make every day because of what someone is wearing.

As far as how you can know which type of music to avoid for 6 months - if it sounds like the rock music of the world, avoid it!! If it sounds like the crooning love songs of the world, avoid it. If it sounds like honky-tonk, avoid it. If it sounds like grunge, punk, rap, etc., avoid it. The sound of that kind of music is pretty self-explanatory. Get an old-fashioned hymn book and listen to those songs played as written by piano, strings, etc. And pray - ask God to give you the discernment and wisdom that He promises. If you are serious, He will do it.
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Interesting concept

Infact I will try that but I must ask how do you define what is holy and what is profane music?

What do you look for inorder to define it?

Here's a link to some really good sermons on Music and how to tell whether it is holy or profane:

http://www.bethelbaptist.ca/audiofile_by_event.php

There are three messages by Frank Garlock, who co-authored Music in the Balance and there is one message by Alan Ives called: How To Tell The Right Kind Of Music

I'm downloading those messages now--haven't heard any yet, but plan to listen later today.
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Interesting concept

Infact I will try that but I must ask how do you define what is holy and what is profane music?

What do you look for inorder to define it?



Great! We'll hold you to that. Look at the articles LindaR posted, buy Garlock's book and read it.

Then for the next 6 months do not play any Christian Rock at all but rather go to Old Christian Radio, click on the player of your choice and listen every time you are at your computer. Also buy some of the CDs they have available. After that, tell us what the difference is. :thumb
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Great! We'll hold you to that. Look at the articles LindaR posted, buy Garlock's book and read it.

Then for the next 6 months do not play any Christian Rock at all but rather go to Old Christian Radio, click on the player of your choice and listen every time you are at your computer. Also buy some of the CDs they have available. After that, tell us what the difference is. :thumb

:amen: :thumb
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Christian rock has no Place what so ever in a Church. Read the Bible study by Liberty http://www.libertygospeltracts.com that has Music. You will learn why we are against Christian Rock. I don't like Christian rock it's too worldly. However, I do listen to some CCM but I don't glorify it.

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suitman, you might be interested in this verse:

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."


this might be talking of any demon not necessarily the devil himself but I suppose that lies in interpretation


2 Corinthians 4:3,4 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Satan is very definitely the god of this world, and the prince of the power of the air. He has a lot more power than you think, and I'm afraid you are not giving him enough credit!!!! His whole aim in this life is to cause man to worship him instead of God (reference to Isaiah where he declared that he would make himself higher than God Almighty), and he does whatever he can to advance himself. And that includes music and dress. The Bible tells us he can transform himself into an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"), and he can fool anyone of us who are not in the Word daily and fully surrendered to Christ.

I would not say the devil is the GOD of the world for GOD is the GOD of this world. Yes the devil has tainted it but in the end god has the final say. The way you word that makes him sound equal or greater to god. and I encourage you not to do that. I am assuming it is just your wording rather than your demonology thats the problem.

We are to be in the world, but not of it. We are identified by our clothing - people who look at me have no doubt that I am not involved in the grunge, punk, rap, etc., world. They don't necessarily know that I am a Christian, but they assume that I am most likely religious (it is my job to speak my Christianity to them). The Bible tells us that God looks on the heart, but it also tells us that man looks on the outward appearance. If someone came to my door wearing grunge and told me he was a preacher, could he come in and talk about the Bible, I'd shut and lock my door and get my gun (and call my hubby to come home and talk to him if the guy was still there)! Yep - that's a judgment, but it's the kind that people (including the unsaved) make every day because of what someone is wearing.


I understand where you're coming from with this but please rethink this idea. I wouldn't like grunge punk or rap looking people around me either but at which point do you draw the line.
Is jeans to far?
Is trousers on a girl to far?
where is the line and if someone is not dressing that way should you rebuke them or show compassion and then teach them why?

heres my example. If someone came into your church dreesed in jeans and a T shirt. they didn't look to grungy but reasonably neat. would you rebuke them, ignore them, tell them to change, or have grace and say to them that it would be better if they came properly dressed next time?


As far as how you can know which type of music to avoid for 6 months - if it sounds like the rock music of the world, avoid it!! If it sounds like the crooning love songs of the world, avoid it. If it sounds like honky-tonk, avoid it. If it sounds like grunge, punk, rap, etc., avoid it. The sound of that kind of music is pretty self-explanatory. Get an old-fashioned hymn book and listen to those songs played as written by piano, strings, etc. And pray - ask God to give you the discernment and wisdom that He promises. If you are serious, He will do it.


okay thats the rules I'll go by and I'll avoid the CC music for 6 months. but one thing
What is honky tonk?

I
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this might be talking of any demon not necessarily the devil himself but I suppose that lies in interpretation


I would not say the devil is the GOD of the world for GOD is the GOD of this world. Yes the devil has tainted it but in the end god has the final say. The way you word that makes him sound equal or greater to god. and I encourage you not to do that. I am assuming it is just your wording rather than your demonology thats the problem.


I understand where you're coming from with this but please rethink this idea. I wouldn't like grunge punk or rap looking people around me either but at which point do you draw the line.
Is jeans to far?
Is trousers on a girl to far?
where is the line and if someone is not dressing that way should you rebuke them or show compassion and then teach them why?

heres my example. If someone came into your church dreesed in jeans and a T shirt. they didn't look to grungy but reasonably neat. would you rebuke them, ignore them, tell them to change, or have grace and say to them that it would be better if they came properly dressed next time?



okay thats the rules I'll go by and I'll avoid the CC music for 6 months. but one thing
What is honky tonk?

I


Yes - everything is ultimately in God's control...but I didn't label him as the god of the world...God did in His Word. Satan is in no way equal to God...but as I said in an earlier post, he wants to be. He is more powerful than any of us, though not as powerful as God. As far as the prince of the power of the air being another demon, I don't think so simply because "prince" is a title of authority, and satan is in authority over his minions.

As far as rebuking or not, if someone sincerely wants to know and/or grow, teaching them the whys and why nots of any Biblical principle is the best way to do it. There does come a time, however, when a rebuke is necessary...but not at my front door!!! :smile

As far as someone coming into our church - we have had people come in wearing grunge, pants falling down to the rear, etc. And they are welcome! We want them to hear the gospel and be saved if they are not, strengthened in Biblical principles if they are. We (and that means me as well as others) extend a welcome to all who visit. And I wouldn't tell them to dress differently the next time...it is a matter of growth. If I were discipling them, I could teach them, but if it were someone I just met and I walked up to them and said something like (I know you didn't say this, it's just an example), "Hi, glad to have you here, but next time you need to wear...." That would, rightfully, cause them to leave and never come back, and quite possibly never go to another good church - and if they are lost, it could turn them off to any witness!!! The example I gave was one of my being in my house alone and someone knocking on the door...a totally different thing than church. My example was one that simply meant that I would be scared if someone came to my door looking like that and I was alone.

Check out those sites Linda posted as well. Honky tonk music is the country music they play in bars alot - and over the radio, etc.
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I couldn't do that. Suitman is a better man than I. If i did the whole 6 months thing i would probably end up suicidal after a few weeks. And then what do you say?


Sorry Samo, that you might end up suicidal...don't know why you would, though! There's plenty of good music out there that you could listen to in the interim.
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I couldn't do that. Suitman is a better man than I. If i did the whole 6 months thing i would probably end up suicidal after a few weeks. And then what do you say?

You have just demonstrated the addicting power of rock music. It's true, in your own strength, you could never give it up.
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God did not put the love of rock music in your heart. Anything that controls you is an addiction and is not of God. Your music obviously has a hold on you as you have stated you couldn't live without it, which is a very common response. You also insinuated that you had a great dislike for hymns and "IFB" stuff. So did God give you a love for music or simply a single style of music?

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God did not put the love of rock music in your heart. Anything that controls you is an addiction and is not of God. Your music obviously has a hold on you as you have stated you couldn't live without it' date=' which is a very common response. You also insinuated that you had a great dislike for hymns and "IFB" stuff. So did God give you a love for music or simply a single style of music?[/quote']
He was over exagerating so don't be harsh and use his words against him
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What can I say? God put the love of music in my heart. And i mean that will all sincerity...


X19,

God put the love of music into everyone's heart. Music is the language of the soul. Therefore::::: Let one display his music and we quickly see into his soul.

The spiritual hymns and gospel songs that believers are to be singing in their hearts are given by God to edify and/or convict. Many of these old-style hymns are taken directly from Scripture passages, and were composed by men and women of God who were going through deep woes and distress. We know that the Word of God is the Sword of the Spirit and is sharper than any two-edged sword. It is even capable of dividing asunder the soul and spirit. If these old hymns would make you suicidal after six months, then can you see yourself in that Scriptural saying above???? :hmm:
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no but he is a close friend and I just cannot bring myself to listen to those hymns. Listening to my music will not send me to Hell and i believe that will everything in me. Rock music is not of the devil, its not bad, it CAN be used for good and it can be used to further god's kingdom. Did anyone listen to the worship site i put up? How can you hear that, and just because it uses modern music condemn it. Are any of you right next to God asking him what he thinks is good or not? Are you God's moral tunnel to the world? God is a creative God and he can use ANYTHING to further his kingdom. Yes, EVEN rock music, and rap music, and any type of music that is out there. And the artists can dress in styles that are popular because when you get up to the ol' pearly gates is God really going to care about what you wore? And you say that these artists are "of the world" because by how they look they aren't discernable. WHO IS? Unless you walk around with a cross around your neck all the time that is visible to everyone you ARENT! Yeah kevin, you wear a suit. The first thing i see is either Buisinessman or Geek. NOT CHRISTIAN. Clothes are not pertinent to someone's heart or walk with God. I dont see what wearing suits and ties, and long dresses, and singing hymns all the time is all about. Yes, its good for ya'll and ya know what, thats great. Thats you. But condemning the other sects of the church for what they do, unless its completely wrong and damaging peoples relationships with God, is completly wrong.

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no but he is a close friend and I just cannot bring myself to listen to those hymns. Listening to my music will not send me to Hell and i believe that will everything in me. Rock music is not of the devil' date=' its not bad, it CAN be used for good and it can be used to further god's kingdom. Did anyone listen to the worship site i put up? How can you hear that, and just because it uses modern music condemn it. Are any of you right next to God asking him what he thinks is good or not? Are you God's moral tunnel to the world? God is a creative God and he can use ANYTHING to further his kingdom. Yes, EVEN rock music, and rap music, and any type of music that is out there. And the artists can dress in styles that are popular because when you get up to the ol' pearly gates is God really going to care about what you wore? And you say that these artists are "of the world" because by how they look they aren't discernable. WHO IS? Unless you walk around with a cross around your neck all the time that is visible to everyone you ARENT! Yeah kevin, you wear a suit. The first thing i see is either Buisinessman or Geek. NOT CHRISTIAN. Clothes are not pertinent to someone's heart or walk with God. I dont see what wearing suits and ties, and long dresses, and singing hymns all the time is all about. Yes, its good for ya'll and ya know what, thats great. Thats you. But condemning the other sects of the church for what they do, unless its completely wrong and damaging peoples relationships with God, is completly wrong.[/quote']

Actually, X19, the Rock artists themselves say that it (their music) is of the devil. They admit this proudly, too. Two good books to show this are Dancing with Demons, and The Devil's Disciples. They are readily available thru a google search. No one ever said that rock music will send you to Hell, but I will say that an aversion for hymns that are taken from Scripture is a sure tattle tale sign of one's backslidden or unregenerate condition. So-called CCM artists are laughing behind their hands at deluded Christians that enjoy the music they put out. They are laughing all the way to the bank. If one would get them alone they would freely admit that their primary goal is all about making money, lots of money.
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x19 just exept that you are wrong and the music you are involved in is of satan and you need to rectify your music beliefs or you will cause another christian to be pulled down or even keep the gospel of Christ from reaching the unsaved. sorry to be so harsh, but souls of unsaved people mean a lot to me! :dead:
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A hearty AMEN, falin. :thumb, :amen:

Lost souls mean an awful lot to God, too. Not only that but God, Himself, didn't think it excessively harsh when He said that He hates every unclean thing. Rock music is exceedingly filthy, vile and unclean, . :eek:

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Actually, X19, the Rock artists themselves say that it (their music) is of the devil. They admit this proudly, too. Two good books to show this are Dancing with Demons, and The Devil's Disciples. They are readily available thru a google search. No one ever said that rock music will send you to Hell, but I will say that an aversion for hymns that are taken from Scripture is a sure tattle tale sign of one's backslidden or unregenerate condition. So-called CCM artists are laughing behind their hands at deluded Christians that enjoy the music they put out. They are laughing all the way to the bank. If one would get them alone they would freely admit that their primary goal is all about making money, lots of money.


The only Dancing with Demons book i could find was either about some Jerome Robbins or Dusty Springfield and i have no clue who either of them are. There are tons of results for The Devil's Disciples; Salem Witch Hunts, Hitler's Inner Cirle...

an aversion for hymns that are taken from Scripture is a sure tattle tale sign of one's backslidden or unregenerate condition.


Listen to these songs.

http://myspace.com/sevenjams

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=64471649

How can you say that isn't glorifying to God?
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Rock music won't send you to hell - hm, and that rationalization is supposed to make it okay? Nothing will send you to hell but rejection of Jesus Christ as Saviour - however, there certainly are a lot of things the Lord wants us to put out of our lives!

By the way, what is with you Samo and with Suitman? You capitalize certain words, but when it comes to God and the Holy Spirit, you always use small letters. That is certainly weird in my book!! That is something you typically see unbelievers do - when they do it consistently and not as a one-time typo.

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By the way, what is with you Samo and with Suitman? You capitalize certain words, but when it comes to God and the Holy Spirit, you always use small letters. That is certainly weird in my book!! That is something you typically see unbelievers do - when they do it consistently and not as a one-time typo.


I do that because people always notice that but people don't aways notice other words such as

"do not conform to the pattern of this world but instead be transformed by the renwing----------"

and people say "so don't you see we must renew every aspect of our being and do the exact opposite of what the world does"

so I put capatilisation on the pieces that people are ignoring in this case OF THE MIND

which puts the scripture back in context and talks about the way in which we think not what we wear or listen to etc.
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Rock music ...CAN be used to further god's kingdom.


I know that I deleted the part where you [mistakenly] put that rock wasn't of the devil, but I did it to make a point. This statement above is absolutely accurate ~ but the god is the god of this world who, according to scripture, is the devil, and it is his "kingdom" which is being furthered...not Almighty God of Heaven.

Samo, I really have to wonder how much time you actually spend reading God's Word. You said you have a Bible, good! But how much time do you spend in it? Your entire relationship with God seems to be built on feelings - hence, your love for the type of music you listen to. Emotions do have a place in our relationship with God, but when emotion is the main part, it is wrong!!!

I listened to part of one of the songs you listed (the other wouldn't play) - "You Are So Amazing" would be the title, I presume. Well, it started out very physical. Now, I am not averse to physical, I love march music, etc. But when that is the beginning focus, and the drums carry you through the song with that, the "spiritual" kind of loses focus. I couldn't understand all of the words in the first verse, so when it came to the chorus, the words struck me - I can sing the same thing to my husband: "You are so amazing (repeat...), I am so in love with you." The second verse did have something about grace in it, I grant you that, but this song put me in mind of Debbie Boone's "You Light Up My Life." This song is supposedly about Christ (although, depending on what mood she was in when she was interviewed or commented on it, sometimes it was about her husband), but it could be applied to anyone. In other words, there isn't a lot of substance to the song. I will admit that I can see how you can be drawn to it...but it's a fleshly, not a spiritual drawing. Really and truly it is!
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I quit!!!

you refuse to listen and you like to pick tiny little holes in things and blow them out of proportian. I thought for a while that people here might actually listen and think but its obvious you won't. I'm tired of OOC scripture and stupid petty responses and so I quit for there obviously is no point to being here.

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I agree with suit. You take the little bits and pieces of something that you want and you dont use it in it's full context. We've tried to use reason and scripture that is actually IN context, but ya'll refuse to use any ounces of intelligence you may have stored up in those brain cells of yours to see the truth. When i said God, YOU KNEW i didnt mean the devil, I MEANT GOD! JESUS CHRIST, hes a friend of mine, you two should talk. But hey, you're IFB's i couldnt expect anything more could I? I had an inkling of what ya'll would do and you delivered. So thank you for this experience, and if anyone asks me for info on the IFB church, i'll gladly tell them it's full of KJV loving morons who can't use a scriptural reference in context to save their lives. Oh, and if you want to go to their church, make sure you cut your hair, wear a suit, bring a big ol' KJV bible, dont expect to worship too loudly, and dont even think about speaking in tounges. Congratulations, I wish you all to soon be better than you are now.

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Now tell me how that uplifts Christ?

We do not allow stereotyping or name-calling here!!!

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I'm not here to put anybody down


Your last post
full of KJV loving morons


Now you call us Morons. We knew from the beginning why you were here and we called you out on it. It was not for fellowship, but to put us down.

Where is the love my friend?
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