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SisterHolly

What's wrong with Christian Rock?

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I agree John.

I remember like it was 5 seconds ago a post[i] (((I forget just anymore if it was a public post or PM))) [/i]by Bakers-6 wherein she mentioned that in any given service [b]preaching should be king and music should be queen[/b]. The songs have a message also, and very often the whole song with all the verses need to be sung in order to get that full intent of the song. The good traditional hymns are not inspired as our KJV is, but they are Godly with a message from the LORD.

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[quote="pneu-engine"]
I remember like it was 5 seconds ago a post[i] (((I forget just anymore if it was a public post or PM))) [/i]by Bakers-6 wherein she mentioned that in any given service [b]preaching should be king and music should be queen[/b].
[/quote]


:lol: More like 3 minutes ago.

I have said that in the past but I don't remember either if it was a PM or post.

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Well, our church started out by singing all the verses, so the congregation is trained right. Since I'm also the congregational song leader, I'll stop the singing if I feel it's too "routine." Then I'll read the verse instead, to show the folks that there is a message in these hymns.

I think Americans would be surprised about what the second and third verses of "The Star-Spangled Banner" were actually about. Oh, the unconstitutionality of it all! :roll:

Too often we sing hymns out of habit, and really don't grasp the message in them.

Mitch

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Maybe I'm totally missing something, but I really can't see any connection between a faster beat of music to sin. I've read a few of the topics you guys have on this issue but I really don't understand.

I've heard the argument that a drum beat of certain types is associated with pagan culture, but organs, violins, guitars, and flutes (pan flutes especially) are as well. All of of the instruments commonly used today in the West have evolved from some sort of pagan ancestry, so then wouldn't all music in some form be bad?

Secondly, isn't the biblical pattern that of taking something evil or intended for evil and redeeming it? For example Jesus' death, takes our sinful lives and brings each one of us fallen and perverse humans and makes us new creations? We still retain the same personalities, yet God uses our distinct personalities to minister in distinct ways. Shouldn't it be the same with music styles?

Anyway, thats where I'm confused.

I agree with you guys that CCM quite often is banal and sometimes ridicolous as well as syncretistic at times. I personally dislike almost all the Christian Rock I've heard recently and for the most part try to avoid it.

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Adding "Christian" lyrics to a worldly rock song is not honoring to God--and the song remains a rock song. Instead of bringing the world into the church, we need to be witnessing Christ to the world. We are a "sanctified" people--we live in the world but we are not "of" the world.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the [b]friendship of the world is enmity with God[/b]? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. [b](James 4:4)[/b]

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[quote="remkade"]
Secondly, isn't the biblical pattern that of taking something evil or intended for evil and redeeming it? For example Jesus' death, takes our sinful lives and brings each one of us fallen and perverse humans and makes us new creations? We still retain the same personalities, yet God uses our distinct personalities to minister in distinct ways. Shouldn't it be the same with music styles?
[/quote]

God doesn't take the sinful aspects of our characters and redeem them. He redeems us - we are to put the sin out of our lives. He made my general personality - but those aspects of it that are sinful, He wants to remove and have Jesus showing through me. He doesn't use my sin - He overcomes it.

If something is sinful - for example, a worldly type of music or rhythm - we don't make it right by calling it Christian or throwing some Christian words into it. We make it right by not using it or incorporating it in our lives.

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Right, I agree with you, but you never addressed the issue of transforming rock music into something Christian.

There is no reason why rock music must be associated with the whole evil trifecta (sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. Here's another example of what I mean:

The Christmas holiday is probably the best example. the holiday celebrated on december 25, with an evergreen tree the yule log and such was originally a pagan celebration of the winter solstice. However, as more an more germanic people became Christians they transformed the holiday from a pagan festival to the celebration of Jesus' birth. The Christmas tree's importance as well as all the other trappings of the pagan holiday basically remained but were reborn (baptized, born again, however you prefer to say it) as Christian symbols.

it seems to me that this is the most biblical principle about. Taking the old sinful and worldly, then transforming it into a new and God glorifying creation.

I think you said it best in that aphorism: in the world but not of it. We still are within the boundraries and have the trappings of this world, as God has chosen to give us bodies an allow us to live in a human culture, yet we are substantially different. So while we may have the outer trappings and look of normal people, we are fundamentally changed and reveal so in all we do, music, art, dance, computers, whatever. So it should be with music, it may have the same form and style of other types, yet it is transformed by the musicians and hearers into something that Glorifies God, exactly like a hymn is.

Unfortunately I must grant that most CCM is nothing more than a quick way to make money or just banal entertainment, however I do hold that there are a few good ones out there.

Anyway thats how I understand it.

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[quote="Jerry"]
God doesn't take the sinful aspects of our characters and redeem them. He redeems us - we are to put the sin out of our lives. He made my general personality - but those aspects of it that are sinful, He wants to remove and have Jesus showing through me. He doesn't use my sin - He overcomes it.
[/quote]
I agree.
What I'm referring to though is God redeeming us holistically. I beleive that we are all originally fallen, and thus our whole existence is permeated by sin. Perhaps a better way of putting it is we have corrupted our being, or very existence, as well as the world around us. Jesus however becomes the new Adam, the origin of a new creation, redeeming our entire being. That means not throwing out intrinsic parts of us. So therefore, Jesus has redeemed our body, our mind, our soul, our sexuality, our talents, and our creativity.

All of those are aspects that are intrinisic and God given to humanity, what Jesus does is returns us to our pre-Fall state; now whether we accept that and keep living that way is another matter. The difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying I think is the idea of a new creation. As I understand your statement, perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems what you are advocating is that God is keeping the old creation just simply chopping off the bad parts.

My main point though is that God has given us the ability to do the same sort of thing to the world around us, by fixing injustice, loving people, etc. So why not redeem Rock by making it into something loving and God glorifying?

I'm not saying that everything can be redeemed since certain things are explicitly stated as sinful and wrong, and thus must be removed. But, I still see nothing in the bible that proclaims certain beats as intrinsically sinful, so I can't see why it can't be redeemed. but if you have something that can demonstrate (preferably biblically) clearly that it is, I'd be greatful.

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First, your comment about tempo is exactly right. The speed of a song (though all tempi should be chosen with a degree of care and taste!) has nothing to do with its godliness or ungodliness. A very conservative song and a very worldly song can easily have the same tempo. The real problem is the heaviness of the beat. Rock music is characterized by a syncopated beat, that is most commonly emphasized by a drum set and rhythm guitar. The effect has absolutely nothing to do with tempo.

I believe the first reference in the Bible to musical instruments is Genesis 4:21: [i]And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. [/i] I could be wrong, but that is probably long before the pagan cultures people have in mind when they say instruments were invented by a pagan culture. I don't have a problem with any given instrument if it's played properly. Some instruments seem to have a propensity to be played improperly more than others, but I can hardly blame the instrument for that!

CCM doesn't take something and convert it for God's use. As Jerry said, when we get saved, God redeems us and we are to put the sin out of our lives. Changing the words of rock music doesn't convert the music and use it for the glory of God. You see, music is not lyrics, and lyrics are not music. Rock music itself, even if there are no words, is ungodly. When they write CCM, the words may be different but the point to remember is: [i]the music itself doesn't change at all![/i] The example you gave with the Christmas holiday involved changing the meaning of symbols. The difference with music is that it is a piece of communication, not symbolism. We do need to change the [i]meaning[/i], but to do it we have to change the [i]music[/i], just as if we were using the English language and wanted to change the meaning of what we say. We have to use different words to say different things. Likewise with music. Unless it is [i]different[/i], the meaning is unchanged and unconverted.

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[quote="termite"]
First, your comment about tempo is exactly right. The speed of a song (though all tempi should be chosen with a degree of care and taste!) has nothing to do with its godliness or ungodliness. A very conservative song and a very worldly song can easily have the same tempo. The real problem is the heaviness of the beat. Rock music is characterized by a syncopated beat, that is most commonly emphasized by a drum set and rhythm guitar. The effect has absolutely nothing to do with tempo.
[/quote] Oh ok, I think I understand. My exposure to music theory is pretty limited really, I'm much more of a visual artist.

[quote]
I believe the first reference in the Bible to musical instruments is Genesis 4:21: And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. I could be wrong, but that is probably long before the pagan cultures people have in mind when they say instruments were invented by a pagan culture. I don't have a problem with any given instrument if it's played properly. Some instruments seem to have a propensity to be played improperly more than others, but I can hardly blame the instrument for that!
[/quote] I agree with you there, but I think the bible is pretty unclear as to the origin of those instruments and as such it would be fairest to assume some sort of moral neutrality from which they originate.

[quote]
CCM doesn't take something and convert it for God's use. As Jerry said, when we get saved, God redeems us and we are to put the sin out of our lives.
[/quote] Right, and I agree, but Jesus makes us new creations as well.
[quote]
Changing the words of rock music doesn't convert the music and use it for the glory of God. You see, music is not lyrics, and lyrics are not music. Rock music itself, even if there are no words, is ungodly.
[/quote] How so? Is there something intrinsically sinful in the rock beat?

[quote]
When they write CCM, the words may be different but the point to remember is: [i]the music itself doesn't change at all![/i] The example you gave with the Christmas holiday involved changing the meaning of symbols. The difference with music is that it is a piece of communication, not symbolism.
[/quote] Symbolism is a means of communication. Symbolic gestures say untold things about the host of a dinner party for example. If they seat you at the head of the table and serve you first they communicate that they value you. Its the same with teh Christmas holiday. The transformation is a symbolic indication of how they valued God. They valued God so much that they would take their most hallowed and culturally important holiday and transform it to glofify God. They then changed the importance of the tree to indicate the everlastingness of the new Creation of God, and took the form of their traditional songs making them into hymns.

[quote]
We do need to change the [i]meaning[/i], but to do it we have to change the [i]music[/i], just as if we were using the English language and wanted to change the meaning of what we say. We have to use different words to say different things. Likewise with music. Unless it is [i]different[/i], the meaning is unchanged and unconverted.
[/quote] Well I'm not advocating the direct change of the hardest most anger expressing beat into Amazing Grace.The lyrics must fit the music, and as I'm sure you know there are many different ways to play modern "rock" style music, some of which fits worship quite well I think.

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I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but wanted to address something that seems fundamental to your approach on this issue:

[quote]
Its the same with teh Christmas holiday. The transformation is a symbolic indication of how they valued God. They valued God so much that they would take their most hallowed and culturally important holiday and transform it to glofify God. They then changed the importance of the tree to indicate the everlastingness of the new Creation of God, and took the form of their traditional songs making them into hymns.
[/quote]

There are some here - including me - that do not believe you can take paganism or pagan aspects of a holiday, and Christianize them. The tree, holly, mistletoe, etc. etc. are pagan, came from pagan origins - therefore we should stay away from it and stop compromising with it by giving it a Christian label. If we say we are celebrating the birth of Christ at Christmas, and that is what we are claiming the day means, then let's do that. But we can't add all the pagan elements from a pagan festival that was at the same time of the year, and then adapt them to Christianity, or call them Christian, because we are now observing these same pagan elements now to the true God. Lest anyone disagree on the origin of these elements, look them up in ANY secular encyclopedia and you will find out they are not Christian.

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[quote]
There are some here - including me - that do not believe you can take paganism or pagan aspects of a holiday, and Christianize them. The tree, holly, mistletoe, etc. etc. are pagan, came from pagan origins - therefore we should stay away from it and stop compromising with it by giving it a Christian label.
[/quote]

I see it that way too, Jerry. :D

I remain convinced more than ever as the years go by that God does not ever, or at any time whatsoever, need human mechanizations, or paganistic clean-ups and/or retrofitting of them to perform His Work or bring Glory to His Name. The following verse says it all.

[quote]
[b][i]2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [/i][/b]
[/quote]

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[quote="remkade"]
]Oh ok, I think I understand. My exposure to music theory is pretty limited really, I'm much more of a visual artist.
[/quote]

No problem. I just had to mention that because a lot of people I've spoken to think I'm against a song being "upbeat". (Upbeat is a musical term, but it doesn't mean at all what people think it does. Most people use it to mean a lively mood or tempo, and I am not against either of those things!)

[quote]
I agree with you there, but I think the bible is pretty unclear as to the origin of those instruments and as such it would be fairest to assume some sort of moral neutrality from which they originate.
[/quote]

I would agree with that, too. If someone doesn't want to listen to certain instruments at all because they have a problem with their origin, it doesn't bother me, but I certainly don't have a problem with any instrument if it's properly played. I consider musical instruments a neutral tool.

[quote]
Right, and I agree, but Jesus makes us new creations as well.
[/quote]

Right. Part of being a new creation, though, is that we [i]change.[/i] We don't do the exact same things we did before and [i]say[/i] they mean something different, right? We actually [i]do[/i] different things.

[quote]
How so? Is there something intrinsically sinful in the rock beat?
[/quote]

Yes. We all know that we can't find chapter and verse that says "thou shalt not listen to rock music" but if we study the nature of rock music and its effect on the body (it also slowlyl kills plants; that tidbit is for free, lol!) it is clear that a rock beat is something we shouldn't be using in worship. There are lots of scripture on purity and modesty, and rock music is neither.

[quote]
Symbolism is a means of communication. Symbolic gestures say untold things about the host of a dinner party for example. If they seat you at the head of the table and serve you first they communicate that they value you. Its the same with teh Christmas holiday. The transformation is a symbolic indication of how they valued God. They valued God so much that they would take their most hallowed and culturally important holiday and transform it to glofify God. They then changed the importance of the tree to indicate the everlastingness of the new Creation of God, and took the form of their traditional songs making them into hymns.
[/quote]

I'll grant you some of that. Symbolism can be used to communicate, but it is very contextual. In a lot of cases symbolism depends entirely on the cultural context. For example, brides in North America wear white to symbolize purity. In China, white symbolizes death, and brides wear red. In some cultures when you go out for dinner it's polite to eat everything on your plate because it shows you enjoyed the meal; in other cultures it is polite to leave something on your plate because it shows that your host was generous and fed you enough! Symbolism can say a lot, but it can also be much less accurate than language.

One of the problems with trying to change a symbol is that you really have to transform the whole culture. In this day and age, a Christmas tree may be associated only with Christmas, but in the day when it was widely used as a pagan symbol, it still had a pagan meaning. I don't think it was appropriate for Christians to start putting up Christmas trees in that culture because in that context it wasn't a Christmas tree; it was a pagan symbol. The unsaved people around them would have seen only a bunch of Christians celebrating a pagan holiday. Most symbols are neutral in themselves, but if they carry negative connotations we need to be very careful. Is there anything intrinsically sinful in cutting down a tree and decorating it? Of course not. But if by that action we are telling our neighbours that we're celebrating a pagan festival, then we are being a stumblingblock to others, and that becomes sin.

The problems with rock music go far beyond its association with wicked lifestyles, but even that alone should be enough to make us think twice about using it in church.

[quote]
Well I'm not advocating the direct change of the hardest most anger expressing beat into Amazing Grace.The lyrics must fit the music, and as I'm sure you know there are many different ways to play modern "rock" style music, some of which fits worship quite well I think.
[/quote]

hee hee... a heavy metal version of Amazing Grace would definitely be wrong on more than one level!

Seriously, though, heavy metal and "soft" rock are all the same thing. The beat of one is more pronounced, but they have the same effect even though the effect of one is much less intense. If we were talking in terms of chemistry, I'd say that if you have a rock beat, something like heavy metal is a more concentrated version of the rock beat, while soft rock and worship music are a diluted version. They are all the same thing, just watered down in some cases.

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As for the issue of cultural transformation, thats another really long debate, but I'd be happy to get into sometime. At the moment though I barely have time to talk about this rock issue. Suffice it to say though, if you think anything that is not created for a Christian purpose can't be transformed, you'd better get off your computers and drop all the accoutrements of western culture because a huge portion of it originated in the Enlightenment and Pagan cultures before that. Even the English language itself came from Ancient roman, greek, and germanic tongues. At some point you have to say that culture and especially symbols can (perhaps must be) transformed.

It appears we agree on a lot of things actually [b]termite[/b]. Although I think at one point our views simply don't overlap. It appears to me that at some point you are making the a priori ontological assumption that rock is evil, and that is where I'm failing to understand.

[quote="termite"]
Yes. We all know that we can't find chapter and verse that says "thou shalt not listen to rock music" but if we study the nature of rock music and its effect on the body (it also slowly kills plants; that tidbit is for free, lol!) it is clear that a rock beat is something we shouldn't be using in worship. There are lots of scripture on purity and modesty, and rock music is neither.
[/quote] Ok, so I went a did a little bit of research into other fundamentalist argumens as to why music is evil. Specifically I read:
[url]http://www.av1611.org/neutral.html[/url]
I found it pretty amusing honestly. The formatting was really funny because it bolded things like [b]EVIL[/b] [b]SATAN!!![/b] and [b]HATRED![/b]. Other than that though, the argument is extremely weak. First of all, Humans are not plants. Let me take the very same form of argument and explain why it just doesn't work (with cool formatting too!) :):

1. Vinegar [b]KILLS[/b] plants.
2. Plants are [b]alive[/b] like [b]humans[/b].
4. Therefore [i]vinegar[/i] [b]KILLLS[/b] living things.
Conclusion: [i]vinegar[/i] is [b]EVIL!!![/b]

What this overlooks though is that vinegar in proper quantities is not bad at all for humans, but in fact can be good for us. Therefore this logically doesn't follow. Its the same with the rock argument. Humans are radically different from plants, and there are so many more factors that influence our behavior and life that you can't say that what is good for plants is good for humans and vice versa.

I don't know a whole lot about the physiological effects of rock music on humans, but from experience I'll tell you what can happen:
1. Increased heartrate
2. Adrenaline
3. Increased breathing rate (sometimes)

Strangely though, all of those happen when excercising as well. I don't know, perhaps you're referring to something more sinister, but I have never experienced anything more sinister than the above.

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I believe things that are neutral tools can be used for God's glory, or for evil purposes. I also believe that in some cases things that are not evil in themselves are best avoided by Christians because of the connotations they carry in the minds of unbelievers. I am not saying that we can't use things that aren't specifically invented by Christians, but that if things have a bad reputation they are better left alone. I need to quote 1 Corinthians 8 here; sorry to add such a long quote to this post, but I couldn't see any good place to stop until the end of the chapter.

[i]1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. [/i]

I come away from that passage with the distinct impression that appearances are important. God looks on the heart, but we are also here to be a testimony to others, and the Bible says that others look on the outward appearance. Culture changes, and the meaning of symbols change, but I don't think it is the place of the Christian to work to change the meaning of symbols; our focus should be on changing culture by getting the gospel to people so that God can change their lives. I think it is fair to say that God is interested in converting people, not in converting symbols.

Anyhow, back to music:
:lol: I'd like to take this opportunity to say that I refuse to be swayed by your cool formatting! :lol:
True, we can't say that things are not evil because they kill plants. I [i]did[/i] tell you that info was for free. :wink: (Otherwise, I am very evil; I love having plants but keep forgetting to water them...oops.... That is also for free, but I'm glad to know you won't think me evil because of it, lol.) It doesn't prove that rock music is evil, or has the exact same effect on humans, but it does prove that music has a physical effect on physical bodies. I read the article you mentioned, and it was an excellent point they made about how plants aren't affected by predjudices and psychological preconditioning to the music.

The article goes a little overboard on the dramatic bold text, but at first glance the facts are all accurate. And I've been spending too much time on this post and need to get some sleep. I'll get back to this, though. I'm busy planning a wedding right now, but I'm such a music geek I always get back to this section of the board. (I can assure you that none of the things I say are [i]a priori[/i]. I have good reasons for all of them, but I tend to go on at length... you'll probably see that in some of the music threads here.)

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First of all, the Bible never mentions anything about a musical style.

[quote]
The real problem is the heaviness of the beat. Rock music is characterized by a syncopated beat, that is most commonly emphasized by a drum set and rhythm guitar.
[/quote]

Where does the Bible say that a syncopated beat is wrong?

[quote]
Rock music itself, even if there are no words, is ungodly
[/quote]

Then why did God give no instructions about musical styles. He gave us the lyrics to many songs (Psalms) but never the musical score. That and the Bile has many things to say about speech(lyrics) but nothing to say about style. SO therefor I conclude that the lyrics are what makes a song moral or not.

One last thing. Dial-the-Truth is not a good source. He uses terrible logic and reasoning, deception, secular sources, and in some cases out right lies in an attempt to prove his point.

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I have a few questions. I don't know if this has been asked before, but what about Electronica? I know for sure Techno can make you move, I used to make Techno and I'm trying to decide whether I should stop. What about "calm" types of EDM? Like Robert Miles style? And what about other Electronica, like Ambient? So it's the rythm? The drums themselves are OK? I'm a bit confused cuz I've been told so many contradicting things about the issue. Can someone help?

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We shouldn't judge music by the style it is. I love old time hymns. I also love rock music. What matters is the lyrics being used. I also do believe the lifestyle of the performer is important. There are several Christian rock artists that have very good lyrics and live a Godly life. I understand we all have different music tastes and you certainly have a right to dislike rock music but you shouldn't try to say it's evil if others listen to it.

Psalms 150:5 Praise him vpon the loud cymbals: praise him vpon the high sounding cymbals.

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[quote="MatthewDiscipleOfGod"]
I understand we all have different music tastes and you certainly have a right to dislike rock music but [b]you shouldn't try to say it's evil if others listen to it[/b].
[/quote]

That's pretty fallible logic!! The world loves sin - even many Christians love their pet sins - we shouldn't call something wrong because someone likes it! :? :freak: That doesn't fit what God says in His Word.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

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Right, Jerry.
And I would add that it's also not right to say that if someone thinks something is evil, that it's just because they don't like it. I honestly [i]like[/i] just about all musical styles, but there are many, many that I avoid because I can't listen to them in good conscience.

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[quote="Jerry"]
[quote="MatthewDiscipleOfGod"]I understand we all have different music tastes and you certainly have a right to dislike rock music but [b]you shouldn't try to say it's evil if others listen to it[/b].
[/quote]

That's pretty fallible logic!! The world loves sin - even many Christians love their pet sins - we shouldn't call something wrong because someone likes it! :? :freak: That doesn't fit what God says in His Word.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.[/quote]

Thank for your response Jerry. Just so I am clear here is the logic I propose:

1. The Bible does not say that any music style is evil.
2. Verses in Psalms would have me believe that instruments such as drums are not evil.
3. Therefore Christian shouldn't call all rock music, or at least all music that uses drums, evil. It doesn't matter if they dislike the music. That is a personal taste.

I have been involved with missions in countries where tribes still live off the land and no one has a TV. Would you tell them to stop using drums even though it's now being used to praise God with hymns of praise and worship?

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Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; [b](Ephesians 5:19)[/b]

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. [b](Colossians 3:16)[/b]

Adding some "Christian" words to "rock" music is simply "Christianizing" worldly rock music. Rock music appeals to the flesh--"psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" nourish the soul and spirit".

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Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

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You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

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