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SisterHolly

What's wrong with Christian Rock?

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Even without the lyrics, the rhythm (i.e. the fashion in which the beat is emphasized) is rooted in witchcraft of the forms found among African natives, the Voodoo cults of Haiti, Druidic cultures of ancient Europe (e.g. the Beatles used this form) and many others.

A very interesting book on this is [u][b]Dancing With Demons[/b][/u], available from Chick Pubs.

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[quote="pneu-engine"]
Even without the lyrics, the rhythm (i.e. the fashion in which the beat is emphasized) is rooted in witchcraft of the forms found among African natives, the Voodoo cults of Haiti, Druidic cultures of ancient Europe (e.g. the Beatles used this form) and many others.

A very interesting book on this is [u][b]Dancing With Demons[/b][/u], available from Chick Pubs.
[/quote]

Okay so the rhythm is bad. But really, why is that such a bad thing? Is the rhythm going to influence people to sin? I'm seriously curious. :?:

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Hi Holly, :D

So happy to hear that you are honestly curious. There are serious in-depth studies done on the [b]NON[/b]-neutrality of the instrumental portion of music, i.e. the non-lyric portion. Hopefully the admins and mods can point us to some of the threads on this board wherein it was discussed.

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Hi Holly--

Glad you asked about Christian (?) Rock music. First of all, rock music isn't "Christian". Simply adding some "Christian" lyrics to the world's rock music, doesn't make it "Christian" any more than being born in a bakery doesn't make one a bagel! Music is NOT neutral--the music must match the message.

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; [b](Ephesians 5:19)[/b]

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. [b](Colossians 3:16)[/b]

Check out the list of articles on this link.

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns-index/musicfbns.htm

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[quote="pneu-engine"]
Hi Holly, :D

So happy to hear that you are honestly curious. There are serious in-depth studies done on the [b]NON[/b]-neutrality of the instrumental portion of music, i.e. the non-lyric portion. Hopefully the admins and mods can point us to some of the threads on this board wherein it was discussed.
[/quote]

Ah okay. That would be nice. If you have any links to external websites, those would be welcome too. :)

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The Bible tells us to be modest, there is no question of that. Rock music is [i]not[/i] modest. The music itself is all about sex and rebellion. Most music will make our bodies want to move. That's perfectly natural. One of the most revealing things about rock music is that the body parts that start to move first are the very ones to which the Lord doesn't want us to draw attention! Compare that with the body's reaction to other styles of music. Most rock music also uses a breathy, sexy-sounding vocal technique, or else shouting/screaming (violent sounds). The music, aside from lyrics, is unacceptable for a Christian. If we put Christian lyrics to rock music, the message of the music will contradict (I would even say "nullify") the message of the words.

Back to lyrics: the first thing beginning composers are taught in in vocal writing is that music should fit the words. It isn't coincidence that certain styles of music tend to have similar lyrical topics. It is because the style of the music best complements those types of lyrics. Rock singers dress immodestly and sing about sex and violence because that is what fits with the music. Christianity [i]doesn't[/i] fit with rock music.

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[quote="termite"]
The Bible tells us to be modest, there is no question of that. Rock music is [i]not[/i] modest. The music itself is all about sex and rebellion. Most music will make our bodies want to move. That's perfectly natural. One of the most revealing things about rock music is that the body parts that start to move first are the very ones to which the Lord doesn't want us to draw attention! Compare that with the body's reaction to other styles of music. Most rock music also uses a breathy, sexy-sounding vocal technique, or else shouting/screaming (violent sounds). The music, aside from lyrics, is unacceptable for a Christian. If we put Christian lyrics to rock music, the message of the music will contradict (I would even say "nullify") the message of the words.

Back to lyrics: the first thing beginning composers are taught in in vocal writing is that music should fit the words. It isn't coincidence that certain styles of music tend to have similar lyrical topics. It is because the style of the music best complements those types of lyrics. Rock singers dress immodestly and sing about sex and violence because that is what fits with the music. Christianity [i]doesn't[/i] fit with rock music.
[/quote]

Is this the same with Christian Rock music? :?

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With "Christian" rock music, the only thing that is changed is the lyrics. Most CCM performers even dress like their secular counterparts.

Our bodies don't respond to lyrics of songs. Our mind does that. But our bodies do respond to the music itself. Music without words affects our bodies without any conscious effort from the listener. To change only the words of music doesn't negate the effect of the music itself. Remember, secular rock and roll and everything that goes along with it came first, then Christians started to use it to get more people, especially young people, in the church doors. But when they did that, they only changed the lyrics of the music, and it's more than the lyrics that are wrong. I guess what I'm trying to say is that good words don't undo bad music.

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Most excellent, termite. :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

Also, following your thinking and line of thought on the rhythm of music:::: I've noticed many times the effect that a truly Godly song or hymn will have on me as it promotes adoration in my heart to the LORD. Some examples of these songs are:::

[i][b]I Bowed on My Knees and Cried Holy

Holy, Holy, Holy

Holy Is the LORD

Great God of Wonders

'Tis Midnight and on Olive's Brow

And Can It Be

How Can It Be

His Way With Thee

Who Is He In Yonder Stall?

What Did He Do?

Lift Your Glad Voices[/b][/i]

These are just a few, and there are oodles others. Where CCM and ordinary rock music get the body to swaying, these songs will do the very opposite, but will melt the heart of a penitent sinner and drop him his knees in abject humility. [i][b]WOW!!! What a difference.[/b][/i]

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[quote="pneu-engine"]
Most excellent, termite. :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

Also, following your thinking and line of thought on the rhythm of music:::: I've noticed many times the effect that a truly Godly song or hymn will have on me as it promotes adoration in my heart to the LORD. Some examples of these songs are:::

[i][b]I Bowed on My Knees and Cried Holy

Holy, Holy, Holy

Holy Is the LORD

Great God of Wonders

'Tis Midnight and on Olive's Brow

And Can It Be

How Can It Be

His Way With Thee

Who Is He In Yonder Stall?

What Did He Do?

Lift Your Glad Voices[/b][/i]

These are just a few, and there are oodles others. Where CCM and ordinary rock music get the body to swaying, these songs will do the very opposite, but will melt the heart of a penitent sinner and drop him his knees in abject humility. [i][b]WOW!!! What a difference.[/b][/i]
[/quote]

I have also noticed the difference. It seems like Southern Gospel hymns have a tendency to convict while CCM has a tendency to do pretty much nothing. I am definitely for Southern Gospel only in the worship service.

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Kindly and gently here...

Those songs pneu-engine posted there are not Southern Gospel. They are traditional hymns.

Southern Gospel
Country Gospel
Gospel (as in black culture)
CCM and
Christian Rock

are all different kinds or styles of music totally separate and different from traditional hymnody. Now you can take a hymn and sing it in one of those styles listed above and it will sound like it belongs but those songs are considered traditional.

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Hmm ... I only know a couple of those hymns. It seems that different regions of the country have their favorite hymns. I learned several new ones when we moved to Iowa.

Mitch

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
Kindly and gently here...

Those songs pneu-engine posted there are not Southern Gospel. They are traditional hymns.

Southern Gospel
Country Gospel
Gospel (as in black culture)
CCM and
Christian Rock

are all different kinds or styles of music totally separate and different from traditional hymnody. Now you can take a hymn and sing it in one of those styles listed above and it will sound like it belongs but those songs are considered traditional.
[/quote]

Eh well I'm still for Southern Gospel! :frog

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I Bowed on My Knees and Cried Holy is a Southern Gospel song. Alot of SG music is old time hymns. Chev each part of the country has their own hymns. What we had in Ind. we had some in the south but the south had some that we did not have in Ind.

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Yeah at my church we sing hymns like:
When the Roll is Called Up Yonder
At Calvary
Jesus Paid It All
How Great Thou Art
Lily of the Valley

hymns like that...I've not heard of any of those other ones! Are these just the hymns associated with the deep south?

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[quote]
I Bowed on My Knees and Cried Holy is a Southern Gospel song
[/quote]

The recording that I have does it as a classic hymn. There are no SG overtones or undertones in it at all. I don't know what group (choir) is singing it b/c I recorded it off the radio many years ago during a "Sacred Symphony" session from WDAC, Lancaster, PA.

It's just as Bakers-6 inferred. Practically any classic or traditional hymn can be re-styled to sound like anything one wants it to. Consider what the charismatics do to "Amazing Grace" with their swinging and swaying. They take a really good song and make it nauseous, and turn it into something I can't even stomach. :barfy: :barfy: :barfy: :barfy: :shock: :shock: :( :( :(

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I wouldn't say that every part of the country has its own favorite hymns. I would say that what you sing at church depends heavily on the music director's experience and training and whether or not the pianist can play the particular song.

When I lived in IN, we sang the regular 40 songs:

At Calvary
When The Roll Is Called Up Yonder
Trust And Obey
Etc.

(Not that there's anything wrong with those :wink: )


However, when I lived in NC, I had a music director from IL with more training who knew the value and deep theology of those great hymns of our faith like the ones PE posted. Same thing with a church in VA. We didn't sing the same 40-50 songs over and over again. He attempted to sing every song from the hymnal (Living Hymns) and if the congregation didn't know it, then he used the pre-Sunday School session to teach it to the people.

Nothing, absolutely nothing can compare to hearing the basses roll on song like Great God Of Wonders. These deep, rich, theological hymns are usually at the beginning of the hymnal and usually get skipped in many churches.

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[quote="GritsAndMolasses"]
Yeah at my church we sing hymns like:
When the Roll is Called Up Yonder
At Calvary
Jesus Paid It All
How Great Thou Art
Lily of the Valley

hymns like that...I've not heard of any of those other ones! Are these just the hymns associated with the deep south?
[/quote]

Actually I am in Indiana and those hymns sound very familiar. :)

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The "regular 40" are the most common (30-50) hymns sung over and over again in a church. There is no branching out or trying something new. They sing what is familiar and comfortable, never minding the fact that most hymnals contain at least 300-400 songs and hymns.

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Hi Bakers-6, :D

I've seen that syndrome time and time again. :(

My hat's off to a songleader that will get a hymnal like [u][b]Living Hymns [/b][/u]with its 824 songs and take the challenge and teach the congreagtion a new song on a regular basis. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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I've been in a few churches that irritated me the way they did the hymns. Each service they would sing the chorus or just the first line and the chorus of a half-dozen or so hymns, but NEVER sing an entire hymn!

All those wonderful hymns in their hymnal and yet they would only sing small parts of about a dozen or so of them.

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Yes, that is a shame as well. So much theology and so many good verses that help you truly praise the Lord but usually verses 2 and 3 get skipped. :cry: Sad. Music is [b]VERY[/b] important in worshipping the Lord. In services, preaching should be king and music should be queen.

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