The Catholic View of Salvation

[John81]

Catholics believe works are necessary. Catholic teach the need to pray to Mary. Catholics teach to pray to dead "saints". The last Pope, John Paul II, proclaimed that it was because of Mary he didn't die in the assasination attempt and he dedicated his time as Pope to Mary. Towards the end of his life, the Pope declared he was trusting in Mary; not Jesus.

There may be some truly born again Catholics, but considering the Catholic church teaches so many false doctrines, including a false gospel, I don't know how any sincere born again Christian could remain in or join the Catholic church.

[Jerry]

[quote="april"]
Catholics are Christian;

Of course there are people in every church, Catholic or not, that are just filling up space in a pew.
[/quote]

No, Catholics are not Christians. A Catholic might truly get saved in spite of their church, but I can guarantee they never got saved because of their religion - and the Bible teaches that they are to come out of that apostate system.

Catholicism is a false religion. While there are possibly true Christians in every Christian "denomination" (such as Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.) - there is a big difference between someone getting saved and attending a false or wacky church, and someone being saved through it. Baptists historically have taught the truth about salvation - therefore you can be saved THROUGH the preaching of the Baptist church (generally-speaking - of course there are some that no longer preach the truth). On the other hand, the Catholic church has NEVER preached the truth - they believe a different gospel - therefore you CANNOT be saved through their religion.

[quote]
One isn't saved by mere church attendance, but by accepting Jesus.
[/quote]

Yes, and they need to hear the truth about the true Jesus and His complete payment for their sins before they can receive Him and be saved. Just believing in A Jesus is not enough - it has to be the Biblical Jesus, the true Gospel.

[Kubel]

The problem is not that they don't believe in Jesus. It's that they add things to Jesus in their equation for salvation- and Jesus just becomes one in a hundred things required to get to heaven.

I would also disagree that they are "Christian". If they followed Christ, then He would be the one and only way- not just a piece of the puzzle. Roman Catholicism truely is Roman. Except all other gods have assumed the form of works, good deeds, and saints.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

:goodpost:

[preacher_gary]

Yes, Virginia, there are indeed christians who are or(as in my case )were Catholics.

(And yes, it was my former catholicism that chose that avatar, especially before easter. I didn't realize it was offensive, though I should have. I have changed it to a more appropriate one).

We must learn to help these poor misguided souls see that their worship of individuals in church history, Mary, Stephan, Peter, Joan d' Arc, etc. is actually right up there with idolatry.

I remember when I was little and listening to that old Latin mass drone on and on and on, thinking I could actually see the statues make slight movements and see their lips move. I personally believe this may have been an effect the church was well aware of and which they used to help ensnare the minds of their parishioners. Just a theory-I have no proof.

Whew!! Did that qualify as a rant? :oops: :oops: :oops:

Oh, and just a small note--since I got all that GREAT info on easter from that other thread, I have decided that easter will never again be capitolised by me.

[hannah]

[quote]
(And yes, it was my former catholicism that chose that avatar, especially before easter. I didn't realize it was offensive, though I should have. I have changed it to a more appropriate one).
[/quote]

I didn't say it was offensive. It's not offensive to ME. I just remember my Mom explaining to me why non-Catholics had an empty cross when Catholics had a crucifix. So now I notice what kind of cross people where. I think the picture is very appropriate for this time of year. :mrgreen:

[quote]
I remember when I was little and listening to that old Latin mass drone on and on and on, thinking I could actually see the statues make slight movements and see their lips move.
[/quote]

This never happened to me, but it DID happen to my sister. She swore that Jesus in the picture on my aunt's wall moved. It was a picture of Jesus' face when he was 13. So we younger siblings used to lay there staring at it waiting for it to move. It never moved for me. I remember being disappointed because God liked my sister better.

[preacher_gary]

He didn't like her better, she was just more susceptible. You are probably, unless I miss my guess,
the more practical, level-headed between the two of you.

But, you see? I REALLY am beginning to believe they do it on purpose. I'm starting to agree more and more that Rome will be the center of the One World Faith. And by then little hypnotic tricks will be the smallest weapon in their arsenals.

And I'm sure you weren"t offended, but you should have heard the fuss my wife made when she saw it over my shoulder! She's been IFB all her life!

[Jerry]

I appreciate you choosing to change it - as some (including me) do find crucifixes (or the same kind of picture) offensive. I don't condemn someone for using that kind of picture - it just bothers me. Then again, ALL pictures of Christ/God/Holy Spirit bother me as we are commanded not to make them or have any:

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Deuteronomy 4; Numbers 33:52 (in regards to pictures of God or false gods); and the second of the 10 commandments also apply.

[preacher_gary]

Sorry, jerry--it's not a form of idolatry to me, just a reminder--HOWEVER, I am actively looking for an avatar that's more suitable and that I like--just haven't quite settled yet--but it won't be long!!!

[Jerry]

I know I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been on this: I think oftentimes we do things out of ignorance without any actual deliberate intention to sin or break God's commandments - but because part of this thread referred to pictures of Jesus, I posted what the Bible says about that. I did it more of a reminder of how we should think on the issue, rather than as a rebuke for not knowing otherwise. I hope you take it that way. I know we are all at different levels in our growth and walks with the Lord - and not all of us see or understand issues the same way - especially when too many others stand on different places on some of these issues - the best thing to do is find out what the Bible says and do our best to stand there. God bless.

[preacher_gary]

Jerry-it's almost impossible to offend me, I'm way to old and thick-headed. Even at my age I still have a whole lot more to learn, as anyone who's been reading my posts can tell. I don't mind a bit of gentle (or even rough) correction, just ask MY pastor--sometimes I must positively make him think I'm mentally challenged! And this lump of flesh he's trying to mold into preacher!! (He calls one of my cohorts Pastor Unvarnished, but I think he really means both of us).

Anyway, you just remind me when I get too far off the beaten trail-I'm learning aLOT from the rest of you, AMEN?

[hannah]

[quote]
Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, [b]we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.[/b]
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
[/quote]

[Jerry]

Hannah, I am not quite sure why you posted that passage - could you please explain? Thanks. If you mean to say that there is no such thing as an idol, even the NT tells us to "flee from idolatry." From that passage you quoted, we know that eating meats sacrificed to idols cannot harm us - however tolerating idols in our lives certainly can.

[hannah]

[quote="Jerry"]
Hannah, I am not quite sure why you posted that passage - could you please explain? Thanks. If you mean to say that there is no such thing as an idol, even the NT tells us to "flee from idolatry." From that passage you quoted, we know that eating meats sacrificed to idols cannot harm us - however tolerating idols in our lives certainly can.
[/quote]

What I meant is that there can be differences between believers when it comes to things involving idolatry. A person with a crucifix, or scapular, or relic, treats those items special. Like they have some kind of power. A former Catholic can react to them in different ways.

One may consider them so unclean because of their experience that they cannot even enter someone's home who has a crucifix on the wall.

Another may just feel it is only a hunk of wood with candles in it for Catholic rite of Extreme Unction. It is only a reminder that the people inside that house need to be prayed for and need to be saved. It has no power. It is just wood, metal and wax.

I think that the one who can enter the house should not force the other to go with them to witness there. One would have a weaker conscience. The other has liberty. But the one with the liberty should not cause his brother to stumble.

That's an example of what I meant.

[Jerry]

I agree that someone else's idol cannot harm us - but the Bible does forbid believers themselves having anything to do with idols. Deuteronomy 4 and 7 are good passages on that. I won't let someone's crucifix hinder me from witnessing to them - though I would certainly have a problem if someone was visiting and they wanted to bring their idols in my house.