Annointing with oil the sick

[Guest Guest]

First off I have been annointed with oil by my Pastor and the elders and prayed over. Yet this morning my mom went to her head Pastor and says she was annointed with oil and prayed over for me as her standing in for me. She is United Methodist. Is this normal in their church to do this? I was in shock so I only told her that this was a kind thought but I had already been annointed with oil and prayed over by my pastor and elders before. Her heart was in the right place just misplaced. :sad

[John81]

The United Methodist church today is nearly an "anything goes" church.

The way in which you were annointed with oil and prayed over sounds like the biblical model given. What your mother did, and her pastor, may have been done with good intentions but such isn't biblical at all.

Sadly, United Methodists are not concerned with holding to Scripture.

[Seth Doty]

This is more pentacostalish teaching. No, it isn't something you are likely to see in an IFB church.

[Guest Guest]

I want to be clear that I was annointed with oil and prayed over in a IFB KJV church. My confusion comes in about why the United Methodist anointed her in my place. Is this a normal practice of theirs? Pixiedust

[John81]

Like I said, these days United Methodists are virtually an "anything goes" sort of church. They don't stand upon the Bible. They are willing to incorporate all sorts of unbiblical things whether it be annointing someone in place of another, sprinkling babies so they will be saved, not pushing the Gospel so as to be "open", etc.

[Guest Guest]

I have one to share that shouldn't be funny but it is funny when you think about it. My mom was really confused to say the least. About two years ago I was sharing with my mom tracks -she had been very closed before-but her curiosity got the best of her seeing us leaving them everywhere we go. Anyhow she was so excited she ask if she could take some to show her pastors wife (a Ordained Pastor as well :sad ). My mom showed her all excited and was told "We grow people in Christ's here we don't worry about their being born again!" As I pointed out later to my mom on the phone you must be a babe in Christ before you can grow!! So sad they don't see this but true! Still amazed to this day! pixiedust

[JerryNumbers]

Right, lost people think being born again is silly.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 3:3-8 (KJV)

But there it is right there in the Bible, quite clear, those who are not born again, they CANNOT enter.



And of course your pastor did it the proper way, the Bible way.

13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

James 5:13-16 (KJV)

But like the one who said we grow them into Christ and leave off the being born again, they do many other things that are not in the Bible.

And of course, if its not in the Bible its wrong.

I might add, here several years back it got very popular in Hollywood for the stars to say they had been born again, but it did not last long, seems for them it was just a popular fad.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

I know several IFB willing to annoint w/ oil.

I know one IFB church where you can be annointed in leiu of someone else --- sorry, can't find "annointed by proxy" in Scripture

[Guest Guest]

Thank you that's all I could find as well! pixiedust

[orvals]

While the proxy being oiled and prayed over would not have any biblical support, most certainly the believer is told explicitly to call for the elders of the church (local) and have them annoint them and pray for them.

James 5:13-15 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Why would anyone be suprised if an IFB church did this? I would be more suprised if they did not, after all are we not literalist in our interpretation of scripture?

Orvals

[JerryNumbers]

One thing we must remember, the Anointing with oil is symbolic. Is that not something all of us Baptist agree with?

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:4 (KJV)


We all know or should know the blood of animals cannot forgive us of our sins, but it was used symbolically by God to teach us about forgiveness and the coming of the One true sacrifice that could save us from our sins and even give us eternal life that could not be lost.

I myself fail to understand why a very few Christians now days want this done. I know of one man in recent times who was deacon in a Baptist Church that wanted his pastor to do this, he was sick with cancer and nothing in modern medicine had worked and of course his pastor and church had already been praying for him, he them asked his pastor to do this during a Sunday morning service.

I recall another Baptist man from the very same church spoken of above, his church had been praying for him, but it seemed nothing was working and death was coming, Benny Hinn just happened to come to Dallas, Texas, his last ditch effort was to get Benny Hinn to cure him, to me this man showed a complete lack of faith in God and God's way. I might add he came back to town from Dallas claiming Benny Hinn had cured him completely of his cancer, but in a few short weeks he was dead.

Isn't it really all about faith, faith unwavering thru Jesus Christ our one an only mediator?

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

Heb 10:19-23 (KJV)

James 5:13-15 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Heb 11:1 (KJV)

Romans 1:17 "...as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

Galatians 3:11 "...for, The just shall live by faith."

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Heb 10:38 (KJV)

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Matt 7:7 (KJV)

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matt 18:19-20 (KJV)

21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Matt 21:21-22 (KJV)

In my 62 years of life I have seen several Christians die, nearly all of them having not asked for the symbolic of being anointed with oil, only requesting their pastor and church to pray for them.

If I'm missing something, please point it out to me.

[orvals]

Hey Jerry,

We have not been involved on the same thread in quite awhile.

While I agree that it is a request that is backed by the believers faith I also believe that there is something special about the gathering of elders who lay on hands and pray for an individual. In our church we still lay on hands and pray for candidates who are being ordained and candidates who are asking to be sent to the mission field for ministry or to another city to start a church. While the laying on of hands may be partially symbolic of the churches promise to pray and support them it is clearly a New Testament teaching that was practiced by the Jerusalem church and by the disciples of the apostle Paul.

Matthew 19:13-15 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

There is something special when a minster or brother or sister who places their hands on your shoulder, or head or takes your hand in theirs and prays an effectual fervent prayer on our behalf. James finishes by clearly stating that the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up. Whose faith is rewarded? We don't know but we are told that effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Perhaps I failed to understand your post the way you intended. If that is true I offer my apology but with all respect for your position as a pastor I do believe we are to call for the elders when we are sick and losing hope of being well again.

Orvals

[JerryNumbers]

Hey Jerry,

We have not been involved on the same thread in quite awhile.

While I agree that it is a request that is backed by the believers faith I also believe that there is something special about the gathering of elders who lay on hands and pray for an individual. In our church we still lay on hands and pray for candidates who are being ordained and candidates who are asking to be sent to the mission field for ministry or to another city to start a church. While the laying on of hands may be partially symbolic of the churches promise to pray and support them it is clearly a New Testament teaching that was practiced by the Jerusalem church and by the disciples of the apostle Paul.

Matthew 19:13-15 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

There is something special when a minster or brother or sister who places their hands on your shoulder, or head or takes your hand in theirs and prays an effectual fervent prayer on our behalf. James finishes by clearly stating that the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up. Whose faith is rewarded? We don't know but we are told that effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Perhaps I failed to understand your post the way you intended. If that is true I offer my apology but with all respect for your position as a pastor I do believe we are to call for the elders when we are sick and losing hope of being well again.

Orvals

You must not have read my 1st post under this topic.

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25724&p=415724#p415443

If you had you would know that I stand firmly on James 5:13-16 (KJV) which I included in that post.

And I did not say one thing against laying on hands, that was not the subject in this topic, nor was ordaining deacons and pastors..

I've been to several ordinations of both preaches and deacons and it included laying on the hands with a prayer by each member of the presbytery comes forth one at a time to do this. Quite a sobering time.

But anointing with oil was.

As I previously stated, I've been around a good number of long time Baptist Church members thru out the years whose outlook was quite bleak that never requested anointing with oil but had asked for prayers per James 5:13-16. But in the last 5 to 10 years I've heard about a few members of Baptist Churches requesting anointing with oil, as I stated earlier, the few occasions I know of, they asked for this at the time when all else had seemed to fail.

I must say, its surprising to me, at age 62 and a long time Baptist, to see anointing with oil coming up in Baptist Churches.

[orvals]

Thanks for the clarification. Obviously I did not read your other post with clear understanding but I have gone back and reread it. Sorry I missed your comment that her pastor did it correctly according to the bible.

Your concern in respect to the oil is understood and for clarification purposes I would say that our church has never annointed with oil to my knowledge. Nor have I ever been annointed with oil.

You bring up an interesting point, is the absence of oil in the laying on of hands due to traditon or perhaps a fear of being associated with charasmatic groups such pentecostals and AG's? Or is there another reason?

One of the articles I read concerning this practice stated that since James was written during the time of Acts God allowed the process of annointing with oil as being symbolic of divine intervention based on the faith of those who were praying and not the faith of the one who was being prayed for. Tieing the practice to the authority of the apostles in conjunction with the gifts of the Spirit and implying that when the New Testament was complete the practice faded away like tongues and other spiritual gifts.

orvals

[JerryNumbers]

No problem at all, this may need to be discussed a bit, it might be helpful to all of us.

Based on what I have seen Baptist Churches and their members to have done in the past several years of having no use the anointing of oil while praying for sick church members, them in just the last few years the times that I know of that it has been used, it makes me wonder.

Now I am speaking of only the times I know of when anointing of oil was used, and it was or seemed to me use as a last ditch effort. That leaves me to wonder.

Let me say this about the statement above, it could have been a last ditch effort, or perhaps the sick person got down their Bible for the 1st time and really read James 5:13-16, reading about the anointing of oil they wanted their pastor to do this. Or perhaps they even heard one of those charismatic churches that they watch on TV speak of this and or seen them use the anointing of oil.

Like I say, I wonder what their reasoning on doing this was. Was it because of study, was it because someone suggested it, was it because they had seen someone else do it, or was it last ditch effort.

As you seem to agree with, it has not been used in most Baptist Churches for many years, but yet its showing up in a few Baptist Churches here in the last few years.

And I feel sure that many Baptist Churches have stopped saying amen's and such for fear of being taken for a charismatic church, probably gotten a bit to sober and stone faced in our worship services.

Seems to me some of the older Baptist Churches have gotten to be a bit charismatic, seems to me it started in the 80's around this part of the country and it seems to be mostly those Baptist Churches who will join in together with any church that will worship with them no matter what they may teach. Seems to me Billy Graham brought much of this about.

I firmly believe that we can carry out James 5:13-16 of praying for a sick church member without the anointing of oil IF we do so in FULL faith, that we have done that which is right in the sight of God.