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Doc H

Bluegrass gospel/southern gospel-need advice

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Amen Brother.

But please I didn't start this thread in order for us to argue and divide.

Why hasn't anyone made a comment about the hymns I mentioned?


I've been reading some of the posts in this thread and just came across your post about the hymns. Our church uses the Sword of the Lord/Soul Stirring Hymns Hymmbook (the green one). I wasn't aware that Silent Night was written by a Roman Catholic Priest and that Martin Luther wrote Away in a Manger ( I did know he wrote A Mighty Fortress Is Our God). Also, the hymn Faith of Our Fathers written by a man celebrating his Roman Catholicism. However, these things really don't shock me. We are living in the last days and apostasy is getting worse and worse. Many of the hymns in our hymnbooks are not biblical. If one stops and reads the lyrics to alot of those hymns, they would be shocked.

Has anyone read the words to the hymn "Trust and Obey"?
When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
What a glory He sheds on our way!
While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
And with all who will trust and obey.

IMO this teaches that if we don't "do His good will", He won't abide with us--Doesn't Jesus say that He will "never leave thee nor forsake thee"? This hymn teaches just the opposite. That's just one example--there are many more. We need to be discerning in these last days before the Lord's return for His own.

BTW--I love Bluegrass Gospel music---and it is ALOT different than Country--there are many Bluegrass Gospel groups that are totally sold out to the Lord--The Primitive Quartet for one and Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver is another.

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Well, and good, because I feel the same way about your arrogant, presumptuous post! Telling me to "just admit I don't like" the music, and belittling deeply held convictions as something I believe because it's just what I like. I wouldn't brag about being southern if I were you. Southern men have a reputation for being gentlemen, and you, sir, don't fit that stereotype even a little bit!


In an effort to salvage a rather heated thread that has little real meat to it: You (termite) have presented NO scriptural evidence as to why you arrived at this "deeply held conviction." Perhaps you could catalog it for us (condensed version would be fine) and we can get back on track.

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For the person that pointed it out, yes, I used "he" when referring to Termite so to Termite I aplogize for using "he" instead of "she." hehe

Otherwise, excellent excellent posting Termite.


Quote:
Whether it's country, rock, hard rock, rap or classical, if it has a repetetive, sensual beat, or any other kind of sensuality, it's wrong. Style is moot.

Isn't this contradictory? You say music styles that create sensuality are wrong, then you say style is moot. Please clarify what you mean.


No, the whole sentence was saying that no matter what the style, if it has a repetetive sensual beat, it's wrong. So yes, style is still moot.

Neither one of us is attacking the southern style. I would like to second what Termite said(again) and say that I like country, rock, and many other forms of music including some southern gospel( :o ). So I also take offense to the insinuation that it is preference.

I choose not to listen to rock music because I believe that it is Scripturally wrong and it is something I struggle with almost daily since coming out of that kind of music. If it was preference, it wouldn't be an issue. And that kind of music was okay, I don't think it would be an issue either. The repetetive rock beat is exactly the same whether it's gospel, classical, or hard rock.

If you are going to argue otherwise, you will have to advocate country and rock as well, unless you believe it relies on the lyrics and their personal worldliness. And if that is what you rely on, then you have made music amoral.

Kevin

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You (termite) have presented NO scriptural evidence as to why you arrived at this "deeply held conviction."


Here is the Scripture I stand on:

1Sa 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music.

We can see here that music is used to illustrate joy and as a method of praise to God for his blessings. Many of the passages containing the word

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Here is the Scripture I stand on:

1Sa 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music.

We can see here that music is used to illustrate joy and as a method of praise to God for his blessings. Many of the passages containing the word

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No, the whole sentence was saying that no matter what the style, if it has a repetetive sensual beat, it's wrong. So yes, style is still moot.


OK, I think I understand your point now. I was focusing more on the styles rather than what you were saying about sensual beat. If I can paraphrase, you were saying that no matter what the style is called, it's wrong if it has a sensual beat. Is that accurate? Now that makes sense to me, and I'll agree.

But my problem with this thread is with the idea that Southern gospel has a sensual beat and displeases God. A few contemporary SG groups have followed CCM in their musical arrangements. But the vast majority of SG groups are not like the Gaithers and do not have sensual rhythms in their music. The lesser known groups sing mostly out of the hymnbook and are treated more as specials than concerts.

Maybe the disconnect we're having in this thread is that we're debating two different versions of Southern gospel music: today's version vs. traditional. My experience with Southern gospel dates back to the 1960s, when my father played piano for two different quartets. Just a piano player and four talented male voices. They couldn't afford their own songwriters, so got their music from the hymnbook. There was no synchopated rhythms -- just straight 4/4, 3/4, or whatever the song was written in. And they wore suits and had short haircuts. And those groups still dress that way today.

Sure, they had their fun songs, like "Daddy Sang Bass." And most groups like to show off how low their bass singers could go, or how high their first tenors could go. All in good fun, but never in an actual church service. There was nothing that would displease God in their music. And if you've never been to an all-night singing, you don't know what you're missing.

The majority of what passes as Southern gospel today, however, goes against that tradition. It's a shame when today's groups take songs my father's quartets would play, and "dress them up." They don't sound near as worshipful today as they did back then. Today's groups add syncopated rhythms, and it changes the entire song. So, I stick with the older stuff.

Mitch

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I have never heard traditional Southern Gospel or Bluegrass Gospel that has anything even remotely close to being a "sensual beat" so why do some have a problem with these?

Notice I said "traditional"; there are some modern groups that are somehow called Southern Gospel who don't follow the traditional style and are of a nature so totally diferent I don't even know why they are called Southern Gospel.

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OK, I think I understand your point now. I was focusing more on the styles rather than what you were saying about sensual beat. If I can paraphrase, you were saying that no matter what the style is called, it's wrong if it has a sensual beat. Is that accurate? Now that makes sense to me, and I'll agree.


Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. There is a country song that I like to listen to that does not have that driving rock beat but is just a nice patriotic song.


But my problem with this thread is with the idea that Southern gospel has a sensual beat and displeases God. A few contemporary SG groups have followed CCM in their musical arrangements. But the vast majority of SG groups are not like the Gaithers and do not have sensual rhythms in their music. The lesser known groups sing mostly out of the hymnbook and are treated more as specials than concerts.


I don't know any of the lesser known groups so I was just speaking from the stuff that I have heard. I would obviously not have a problem with accapella or God-honoring music.


Maybe the disconnect we're having in this thread is that we're debating two different versions of Southern gospel music


Perhaps you are right.


I disagree that music caused the demon to flee. Perhaps there were words, more likely it was the state of mind Saul was in(refreshed), but either way, I do not see a scriptural conclusion that the music alone forced the demon away. AS such, the idea that music can invite evil spirits is also a negative.


The Bible says that David played with his harp, it didn't say anything about words. David played with his hand, SO Saul was refreshed and the evil spirit departed from him.
And if you still think there were words that caused it to flee, then you are saying music is amoral. And the Bible doesn't say just that his mind was refreshed, it said the spirit fled as a direct result of the music.


Agreed Music should glorify God. You still have not defined what is glorifying to God.


Music that glorifies God is music that glorifies the spirit and not the flesh.


I can honestly say there are songs that do that. I can honestly say that they are NOT Southern Gospel. If you do respond that way, perhaps the problem is with you (not you you but whoever has that problem) and not the music???


Fleshly music is not exclusive to causing certain people to shake their hips and others not. No, not everyone will start dancing because for one reason, some people just don't have any rythm. But that doesn't change the fact that the music is fleshly. The rock and roll sound was born out of rebellion and that's what that kind of music promotes. Why is it that now we can add the same sound to Christian words and it makes it okay?


Now it is key to note that sensuality is the sinful extreme of passion. Sensuality is a sinful sexual response to an overwhelming desire for an object of affection (passion).


Sensuality does not have to be desiring a sexual act. It is when we exalt our flesh over our spirit and that is always sinful and their is nothing wholesome about any kind of sensuality. Passion is not shown through the glorification of our flesh. Passion for Christ is shown through our desire to please and serve Him, not through the feelings we get when listening to music.


We fear the sensuality so we remove the passion.


A passion for Christ does not and cannot lead to sensuality. There is nothing to fear in that kind of passion because it bears no relation to the flesh or sensual passion.

Kevin

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But just something to think about.

How many of you sing "Silent Night" at Christmas? It is in our hymn book (Soul Stirring Songs & Hymns).

If you do may I ask why. This song was written by a ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST.

What about "Away in a Manger" and "A mighty fortress is our God" both by Martin Luther?

Was he not a pedobaptiser and a believer in cotransubstantiation, and some also claim an enemy of baptists?

"Faith of our Fathers" was composed by Frederick Faber as a testimony of his own conversion to Roman Catholicism. This hymn is also found in the Sword of the Lord hymn book!

Perhaps those brethren who are so against blue grass gospel should sit down and weed out some of the hymns/songs that are in their own hymn books.


Good idea - can you provide some links or actual info supporting these claims? That would help us make some proper decisions in this area. I certainly don't want to be singing any "Christian" hymns that were written by people that were not born again.

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A quick search on yahoo comes up with this


http://www.cyberhymnal.org/bio/m/o/h/mohr_j.htm

Josef Mohr (wrote the words to Silent Night)

Af­ter his or­din­a­tion on Au­gust 21, 1815, by the Ro­man Cath­o­lic Bi­shop of Salz­burg, Mohr was suc­cess­ive­ly as­sist­ant at Ram­sau and Lau­fen; then co­ad­ju­tor at Kuchl, Gol­ling, Vi­gaum, Ad­net, and Au­thering­; then Vic­ar-Sub­sti­tute at Hof and Hin­ter­see

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Thanks for that helpful info. Why did you list the bio on this guy - William James Kirkpatrick? I'm a little tired so I may have missed the reference to him in a prior post (I also have still a page or two left to read of this thread too).

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The Bible says that David played with his harp, it didn't say anything about words. David played with his hand, SO Saul was refreshed and the evil spirit departed from him.
And if you still think there were words that caused it to flee, then you are saying music is amoral. And the Bible doesn't say just that his mind was refreshed, it said the spirit fled as a direct result of the music.

I said perhaps there were words... I am ok with there not being words, but it was the state of mind that caused the demon to flee, not the music itself. To try to say that we invite/discourage demons with music from this passage is a bit of a stretch. There was a progression... music was played as a result, Saul's heart was refreshed as a result, the spirits left.


Music that glorifies God is music that glorifies the spirit and not the flesh.

And where is the definition of glorifies the spirit and glorifies the flesh? What does that practically mean.


Fleshly music is not exclusive to causing certain people to shake their hips and others not. No, not everyone will start dancing because for one reason, some people just don't have any rythm. But that doesn't change the fact that the music is fleshly. The rock and roll sound was born out of rebellion and that's what that kind of music promotes. Why is it that now we can add the same sound to Christian words and it makes it okay?


I honestly do not know a practical definition of 'fleshly' so this paragraph doesn't make sense.



Sensuality does not have to be desiring a sexual act. It is when we exalt our flesh over our spirit and that is always sinful and their is nothing wholesome about any kind of sensuality. Passion is not shown through the glorification of our flesh. Passion for Christ is shown through our desire to please and serve Him, not through the feelings we get when listening to music.


Ok, so there are two definitions of sensual... sexual and carnal. You are referring to the carnal here. Please tell me how one would exalting our flesh over our spirit. How does music do that? (I an honestly asking)


A passion for Christ does not and cannot lead to sensuality. There is nothing to fear in that kind of passion because it bears no relation to the flesh or sensual passion.


Again, I was working off defining sensuality as sexual, not just carnal.


Now my quick overall comment. You cannot define carnal or exalting the flesh as "what makes one move" since we see acts of worship consistently in scripture as dancing and moving. You also cannot define it as "has a beat" because we consistently see percussion instruments in scripture, and scripture is silent when it comes to how music was composed and how they used the instruments they had. It is fair to assume by the way people were dancing that there was some rhythm to it.

The closest definition I can come up with on the spur (perhaps you can do better) is "what causes the mind to dwell on our desires more then God's desires" or "what causes our minds to want what is not holy" or something along those lines. Music that does this, is ungodly music. Music that causes our minds to want to know God better, or that elicits a deeper appreciation for God is holy. We have still not defined what types of music that is... the reason why... scripture is silent. For such a HUGE part of jewish and christian worship, the Bible does not speak to styles, or technical details of how music is to be sung. How then can we assume to know that a certain style of music is unwholesome. Those who do so are on shaky ground biblically.

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Jerry I corrected my post and added the part of the song history for Away in a Manger that mentioned William J. Kirk­pat­rick. sorry about that I was in a hurry when I posted my response.

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Guest Guest

Dwayner79 and chev1958, at the risk of great peril, may I humbly say...

AMEN

PRAISE THE LORD!!!

GLORY TO GOD!!!


PREEEAAAACH Brother, PREACH!


Recently, I did a wee bit of research on the subject of music and praise. I found something interesting... In Luke 19, Jesus had just returned to the presence of the disciples, and they were praising Him. In response to his praise, the PHARISEES told Jesus to hush them up! Jesus responded in verse 40 by saying, "I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out." In that simple statement by Jesus, He clearly showed us that he wants a VOCAL PRAISE!

I have done some more research on the subject. Here is some of it...




You will notice -- this is not my opinion or thoughts. This is the Word of God.

I) What Is Praise For?
A) To Show the Presence of the Lord
A Memory Tool A) Tools for Praise 1) Stringed Instruments A) When We Are Discouraged (to Encourage) When We Are Saved A) In the Church, Temple, Sanctuary, etc. Mountaintop

[*]Num 23:21 He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them. [*]1 Sam 4:5-6 And when the ark of the covenant of the LORD came into the camp, all Israel shouted with a great shout, so that the earth rang again. (6) And when the Philistines heard the noise of the shout, they said, What meaneth the noise of this great shout in the camp of the Hebrews? And they understood that the ark of the LORD was come into the camp. [*]Isa 12:6 Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.[/list:u]

B)

[*]Deu 31:19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. [*]Psa 50:22-23 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver. (23) Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I show the salvation of God.[/list:u]C) To Praise God

[*]2 Sam 22:50 Therefore I will give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and I will sing praises unto thy name. [*]1 Chr 29:13 Now therefore, our God, we thank thee, and praise thy glorious name. [*]2 Chr 20:19 And the Levites, of the children of the Kohathites, and of the children of the Korhites, stood up to praise the LORD God of Israel with a loud voice on high. [*]2 Chr 29:30 Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped. [*]Psa 9:11 Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings. [*]Psa 30:11-12 Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness; (12) To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever. [*]Psa 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD. [*]Psa 42:4 When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude, I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday. [*]Psa 149:1-5 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints. (2) Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. (3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. (4) For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. (5) Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. [*]Psa 56:10 In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word. [*]Psa 57:7-11 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise. (8) Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early. (9) I will praise thee, O Lord, among the people: I will sing unto thee among the nations. (10) For thy mercy is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds. (11) Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens: let thy glory be above all the earth. [*]Psa 69:30-31 I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving. (31) This also shall please the LORD better than an ox or bullock that hath horns and hoofs. [*]Psa 86:12-13 I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore. (13) For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. [*]Psa 104:33-34 I will sing unto the LORD as long as I live: I will sing praise to my God while I have my being. (34) My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.[/list:u]D) To Praise the Word of God

[*]Psa 56:10 In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word.[/list:u]E) To Encourage the Believer

[*]Psa 42:5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance. [*]Psa 43:4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God. [*]Psa 56:3-4 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. (4) In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me. [*]Psa 86:12-13 I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore. (13) For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.[/list:u]F) To Encourage the Battle

[*]2 Chr 13:14-15 And when Judah looked back, behold, the battle was before and behind: and they cried unto the LORD, and the priests sounded with the trumpets. (15) Then the men of Judah gave a shout: and as the men of Judah shouted, it came to pass, that God smote Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah and Judah.[/list:u]G) To Show Our Salvation

[*]Psa 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD. [*]Psa 57:7-11 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise. (8) Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early. (9) I will praise thee, O Lord, among the people: I will sing unto thee among the nations. (10) For thy mercy is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds. (11) Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens: let thy glory be above all the earth. [*]Psa 71:22-24 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel. (23) My lips shall greatly rejoice when I sing unto thee; and my soul, which thou hast redeemed. (24) My tongue also shall talk of thy righteousness all the day long: for they are confounded, for they are brought unto shame, that seek my hurt. [*]Psa 86:12-13 I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore. (13) For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.[/list:u]H) To Show Others the Mercy of the Lord

[*]Psa 57:7-11 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise. (8) Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early. (9) I will praise thee, O Lord, among the people: I will sing unto thee among the nations. (10) For thy mercy is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds. (11) Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens: let thy glory be above all the earth. [*]Psa 86:12-13 I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore. (13) For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.[/list:u]I) To Gain the Blessings of the Lord

[*]Psa 67:1-7 To the chief Musician on Neginoth, A Psalm or Song. God be merciful unto us, and bless us; and cause his face to shine upon us; Selah. (2) That thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving health among all nations. (3) Let the people praise thee, O God; let all the people praise thee. (4) O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah. (5) Let the people praise thee, O God; let all the people praise thee. (6) Then shall the earth yield her increase; and God, even our own God, shall bless us. (7) God shall bless us; and all the ends of the earth shall fear him. [*]Psa 69:30-31 I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving. (31) This also shall please the LORD better than an ox or bullock that hath horns and hoofs.[/list:u]J) To Show Joy

[*]1 Sam 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music. [*]1 Chr 15:16 And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers with instruments of music, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy. [*]2 Chr 5:13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; (14) So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God. [*]2 Chr 7:6 And the priests waited on their offices: the Levites also with instruments of music of the LORD, which David the king had made to praise the LORD, because his mercy endureth for ever, when David praised by their ministry; and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood. [*]Luke 15:21-25 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. (22) But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: (23) And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: (24) For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. (25) Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.[/list:u]II) Defining Acceptable Praise Worship and Music



[*]Psa 43:4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God. [*]Psa 150:4-5 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (5) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. [*]Psa 71:22-24 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel. (23) My lips shall greatly rejoice when I sing unto thee; and my soul, which thou hast redeemed. (24) My tongue also shall talk of thy righteousness all the day long: for they are confounded, for they are brought unto shame, that seek my hurt. [*]Psa 92:1-4 A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High: (2) To show forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night, (3) Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound. (4) For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands. [*]Psa 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.[/list:u]2) Wind Instruments

[*]Psa 71:22-24 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel. (23) My lips shall greatly rejoice when I sing unto thee; and my soul, which thou hast redeemed. (24) My tongue also shall talk of thy righteousness all the day long: for they are confounded, for they are brought unto shame, that seek my hurt. [*]Psa 147:7 Sing unto the LORD with thanksgiving; sing praise upon the harp unto our God: [*]Psa 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.[/list:u]3) Percussion Instruments

[*]Psa 150:4-5 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (5) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.[/list:u]4) The Shout

[*]Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart. [*]Psa 35:27 Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. [*]Psa 47:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm for the sons of Korah. O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph. [*]Psa 65:13 The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing. [*]Psa 132:9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy. [*]Psa 132:16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy. [*]Isa 12:6 Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee. [*]Isa 42:11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. [*]Isa 44:23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. [*]Zep 3:14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. [*]Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. [*]Acts 12:22 And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.[/list:u]5) The Song

[*]2 Sam 22:50 Therefore I will give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and I will sing praises unto thy name. [*]2 Chr 29:30 Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped. [*]Psa 9:11 Sing praises to the LORD, which dwelleth in Zion: declare among the people his doings. [*]Psa 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD. [*]Psa 33: Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise. [*]Psa 47:6-7 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises. (7) For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. [*]Psa 65:13 The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing. [*]Psa 108:3 I will praise thee, O LORD, among the people: and I will sing praises unto thee among the nations. [*]Exo 15:1-2 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. (2) The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him. [*]Psa 98:4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise. [*]Psa 135:1-3 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the name of the LORD; praise him, O ye servants of the LORD. (2) Ye that stand in the house of the LORD, in the courts of the house of our God, (3) Praise the LORD; for the LORD is good: sing praises unto his name; for it is pleasant. [*]Psa 146:2 While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. [*]Psa 147:1 Praise ye the LORD: for it is good to sing praises unto our God; for it is pleasant; and praise is comely.[/list:u]6) Hands

[*]Psa 47:1 O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph. [*]Psa 47:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm for the sons of Korah. O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph.[/list:u]III) When We Should Sing or Praise God


[*]Ezra 3:11-13 And they sang together by course in praising and giving thanks unto the LORD; because he is good, for his mercy endureth for ever toward Israel. And all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the LORD, because the foundation of the house of the LORD was laid. (12) But many of the priests and Levites and chief of the fathers, who were ancient men, that had seen the first house, when the foundation of this house was laid before their eyes, wept with a loud voice; and many shouted aloud for joy: (13) So that the people could not discern the noise of the shout of joy from the noise of the weeping of the people: for the people shouted with a loud shout, and the noise was heard afar off. [*]Psa 5:11 But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee. [*]Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart. [*]Psa 43:5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God. [*]Psa 56:3-4 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. (4) In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me. [*]Psa 92:1-4 A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day. It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High: (2) To show forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night, (3) Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound. (4) For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands.[/list:u]

B)

[*]Psa 144:9 I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee. [*]Luke 18:42-43 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee. (43) And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God. [*]Psa 132:16 I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy.[/list:u]C) Continually

[*]Psa 44:8 In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah. [*]Psa 47:6-7 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises. (7) For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. [*]Psa 48:10 According to thy name, O God, so is thy praise unto the ends of the earth: thy right hand is full of righteousness. [*]Psa 75:9 But I will declare for ever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob. [*]Psa 104:33-34 I will sing unto the LORD as long as I live: I will sing praise to my God while I have my being. (34) My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD. [*]Psa 146:2 While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. [*]Psa 146:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. (2) While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. [*]Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. [*]1 Pet 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.[/list:u]D) At The Battle (whether flesh or spirit)

[*]Psa 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD. [*]Psa 56:3-4 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. (4) In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.[/list:u]E) When We Are Encouraged

[*]Psa 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD. [*]Psa 57:7-11 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise. (8) Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early. (9) I will praise thee, O Lord, among the people: I will sing unto thee among the nations. (10) For thy mercy is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds. (11) Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens: let thy glory be above all the earth.[/list:u]F) At The Victory

[*]Luke 19:37-38 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; (38) Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. [*]Rev 19:5-7 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. (6) And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. (7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.[/list:u]IV) Where to Praise God


[*]Psa 135:1-3 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the name of the LORD; praise him, O ye servants of the LORD. (2) Ye that stand in the house of the LORD, in the courts of the house of our God, (3) Praise the LORD; for the LORD is good: sing praises unto his name; for it is pleasant. [*]Psa 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power. [*]Psa 149:1-3 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints. (2) Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. (3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.[/list:u]

B)

[*]Isa 42:11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.[/list:u]C) Everywhere Else

[*]Psa 108:1-4 A Song or Psalm of David. O God, my heart is fixed; I will sing and give praise, even with my glory. (2) Awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early. (3) I will praise thee, O LORD, among the people: and I will sing praises unto thee among the nations. (4) For thy mercy is great above the heavens: and thy truth reacheth unto the clouds. [*]Luke 19:37-38 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; (38) Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. [*]Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.[/list:u]

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By the way, you'll notice that that was all a result of looking for music standards. Music and praising God are tied together. They cannot be separated. As I looked for music standards, the only standard I could find Scripture (in context) to support were separation and praise. Our music should not sound like the world's music and our musicians should not look or act like the world. In addition, the music must praise and glorify God.

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The SWAT team has a Sunday evening slot on a community radio station. In between discussions and debates we play traditional hymns and have also started to play bluegrass and southern gospel music.

Most of our listeners are Aussie IFB's.

On our team we have a Bro. from Mississippi whose father has just started a church in Western Sydney, which we attend. Hence the introduction of bg/southern gospel music.

We have had a number of complaints about playing this kind of music.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I personally, having recently been introduced to this type of music, love it.

I understand that we have to be careful with respect to the performers and their doctrinal belief's, worldliness etc.

Thanks,

Doc H


To directly answer your question, there is no SCRIPTURE that says you cannot use a certain genre of music in your worship. There are some that have tried to warp Scripture so that music styles fit their personal preferences in music. The only 'standard' I have been able to find is the standard of SEPARATION. The music should sound distinctly different from the world and the artist should not be worldly in their dress, actions, etc. Other than that, there is nothing wrong with bluegrass or southern, it is just a style of playing with certain instruments.

The strange thing is: I know one church which will not have a guitar because he says stringed instruments are wrong for some reason. But, they have piano's and fiddles (they call 'em violins).
:bang: :freak:

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By the way, you'll notice that that was all a result of looking for music standards. Music and praising God are tied together. They cannot be separated. As I looked for music standards, the only standard I could find Scripture (in context) to support were separation and praise. Our music should not sound like the world's music and our musicians should not look or act like the world. In addition, the music must praise and glorify God.


Good point. But then you have to define what is separate from the world. It's easy to show all of the different aspects of music, but you didn't post anything that determines just what makes it right or wrong. Separation from the world could easily be manipulated to the individuals viewpoint.

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Kevin, I suppose separation is a subjective term. But, I think we have a fairly similar view.

To be separate means that one should not look, sound or act like the world, not to seek the worlds riches or the worlds fame, but rather to seek the will and blessings of the Lord.

To bless the soul and honor the Spirit, music does not have to conform to a man-made formula contrived by someone seeking to define their own personal taste.

I recently read an article where someone was attempting to describe how music should be 'proper'. One thing they noted was how the 'back-beat' was improper. On it's face that statement is not true. A style of music which has a back-beat, or an emphasis on the even or up-beat is not improper, it just does not suit that author's personal taste. Now, in our culture, music with that sort of beat is widely associated with worldly music - aka rock music.

I have even heard some argue that our very pulse is regular and when you listen to your heart, you hear a strong beat then a weak one. Therefore, that is how God designed us, and that is how our music should be as well. That the strong beats should be the odd ones (1-2-3-4). There is one problem with that theory, though...

If you are a doctor, nurse or paramedic, back me up here. What you hear when you listen to the heart (STRONG-weak) is actually inverted. The atria contract first, then the ventricles. The atria need only push the blood into the ventricles, then the ventricles push the blood into the rest of the body. So, the ventricles are actually the stronger beat. That means that the stronger beat is the second sound or even one.

Sadly, this is a symptom of a growing problem we are facing. As fundies, we see something that we do not like and we run from it. We try to get as far away from it as possible and we beat the Bible until we mold it into what we believe to be a proper standard. By doing this, we give the devil a great place to work. Specifically in relation to music, we allow the devil to steal the tremendous blessings that good music has to offer us. I hope some of you will hear me. Music is a great tool, and we must use it to prepare and mold the heart, to proclaim the Gospel of Christ so that souls may be saved, to edify the saints and, most of all, to praise God. We MUST NOT create Biblically unsound standards to eliminate perfectly Godly music simply because we do not like the 'twang'.

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To bless the soul and honor the Spirit, music does not have to conform to a man-made formula contrived by someone seeking to define their own personal taste.


Then that formula is very inconvenient for me seeing as I like country and pop music. No matter how many times you say it, you won't convince me that I like classical better than rock.


Sadly, this is a symptom of a growing problem we are facing. As fundies, we see something that we do not like and we run from it. We try to get as far away from it as possible and we beat the Bible until we mold it into what we believe to be a proper standard. By doing this, we give the devil a great place to work. Specifically in relation to music, we allow the devil to steal the tremendous blessings that good music has to offer us. I hope some of you will hear me. Music is a great tool, and we must use it to prepare and mold the heart, to proclaim the Gospel of Christ so that souls may be saved, to edify the saints and, most of all, to praise God. We MUST NOT create Biblically unsound standards to eliminate perfectly Godly music simply because we do not like the 'twang'.


I do not allow Satan to steal that joy from me because I do not allow him to take it through his music. His music with "Christian" words put to it. I listen to Godly music and I get far more REAL joy out of listening to that music than I did when I listened to music that pleased my flesh, be it "Christian" or secular.

And it is not "fundies" who have come up with that standard. 50 years ago, Christians would never listen to the kind of music you promote, whether it's rock music with a twang or just rock music.

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Kevin, 50 years ago, the music we promote was in the churches. Southern and bluegrass gospel are much older than rock.

By the way, if you think I am promoting any kind of rock (which is worldly) you are quite mistaken.

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Rock music is characterized by a repetetive driving beat so yes, you are promoting rock music. And it wasn't in the churches. Southern gospel was, but not in the form that is popular today.

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Rock music is characterized by a repetetive driving beat so yes, you are promoting rock music. And it wasn't in the churches. Southern gospel was, but not in the form that is popular today.


Kevin, I would ask that you not misrepresent our ministry. Anyone with an ounce of discernment could listen to our radio and clearly see that we are not promoting rock music. I am sorry that you do not have this discernment.

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I haven't heard your radio recently to know what you play on there. The link doesn't seem to work. I do, however, know the kind of music you promote. I've heard songs that you've given to Katy-Anne and it is obvious by your arguments on here the kind of music that you promote.

Since I haven't heard your radio one way or the other, perhaps you would like to change your comment about my not having "an ounce of discernment?" Or do I still not have an ounce of discernment?

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I hesitate to call anyone a liar. However anyone who claims that I have given them rock music in the last ten years is either very confused or flat out lying.

I believe I have made my position on rock music perfectly clear

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It's you who doesn't want this conversation public. Except that here, you can't delete his posts, so you have to put up with them.

Katy-Anne

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