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Doc H

Bluegrass gospel/southern gospel-need advice

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I don't think it's right just because I enjoy it, I know it's right because it is good and pure. Sure lines up with Philippians 4:8 all my music. The style is much different to rock music whether you want to admit that or not.

God has used many southern gospel songs to speak to me in a big way, a lot of those songs have so much scripture in them.

The old hymns are awesome and I have not abandoned them, I love them and sing them all the time, but I like other styles too.

Back in history, some of the songs we love now we're counted as contemporary and evil too. Just because something is relatively new doesn't make it wrong.

Katy-Anne

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There is a world of difference between enjoying something that is right, and deciding that something is right because you enjoy it.

I don't think it's wrong music if it causes you to tap your toes, but all this clapping hands in church and moving them all around doesn't do anything but draw everyone's focus from the message to the attention-starved person doing the wave. Shouting amen so loud that other people can't hear the preaching or singing is not edifying.

Clapping, tapping and waving are all physical responses to the music, not a spiritual response to the words. If you have to do that during singing, you've missed the point.

When you have to sing every song in the hymnal with the patented country feel-sorry-for-me sound, and melody is so unimportant that you don't need to hit the pitches accurately, there is a problem. God's praises ought not to be sung in that fashion. It is a twisted mockery of what God intended His music to be. You can use a country twang to sing that the Lord fills your heart with joy, but if you're using that mournful twang the message will be that you don't mean it.


Have you ever listened to Bluegrass Gospel? It's nothing like what you describe. Most people who like Country music don't like Bluegrass these days.

There is no "feel-sorry-for-me sound" involved in Bluegrass Gospel.

Perhaps you are confusing Bluegrass Gospel with Country music. The two are not even close to being the same.

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:goodpost: Termite.


Have you ever listened to Bluegrass Gospel? It's nothing like what you describe. Most people who like Country music don't like Bluegrass these days.


I don't think he's focusing on bluegrass. He is just giving some characteristics of music that is not pleasing to God.


That's nice, but some us can't hit a pitch accurately if our lives depended on it. God accepts our worship. If you prefer to worship God with a exactness where you need to be completely on key perfectly with the melody, then that is fine.


He didn't say you had to have music training. I think(correct me if I'm wrong) his point was that our music should be orderly.


Your post is so full of personal preference making assumptions on people's motives.


He wasn't making an assumption on your motives. If music makes you focus on the beat or produces any kind of sensual reaction, it is wrong, regardless of your motives.


But those in the middle that just love God and want to sing to Him... that is pleasing.


Having good intentions doesn't mean that it is Biblical. The Bible sais that we are not to promote the flesh, and that is exactly what that music does. All music should be (a) orderly and (B) uplifting to the spirit, not the flesh.


I don't think it's right just because I enjoy it, I know it's right because it is good and pure. Sure lines up with Philippians 4:8 all my music.


It's easy to say that it's good and pure, but show me from the Bible what makes your music pure. That verse sais that we should focus on what is pure, just, etc. but there is a Biblical standard to what is pure, just, etc.


The style is much different to rock music whether you want to admit that or not.


No, it isn't. I have been quite in to rock music in the past and if I found a way to excuse it without the guilt of being in sin, I would have done it. But you can't. You can't excuse it Biblically. Whether it's country, rock, hard rock, rap or classical, if it has a repetetive, sensual beat, or any other kind of sensuality, it's wrong. Style is moot.

Kevin

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Define "orderly and uplifting to the spirit, not the flesh" using scripture.

Define "sensual response" using scripture.

You can't. You can make up stuff for the first one, but that is all you are doing.

The second would be in the sexual realm, but that is still very vague.

Now go to scripture and lay out all the worship experiences where music is used, and catalog how the people were responding.

P.s. FYI: Termite is a lady... (at least her little icon is)

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Whether it's country, rock, hard rock, rap or classical, if it has a repetetive, sensual beat, or any other kind of sensuality, it's wrong. Style is moot.

Isn't this contradictory? You say music styles that create sensuality are wrong, then you say style is moot. Please clarify what you mean.
_____________________

termite, I doubt you'll enjoy any of my sermons because I preach with a Southern twang. I don't do it on purpose; it just comes out of my mouth that way. If Southern twangs are so offensive, why on Earth would God call Southern men to preach?!? Land sakes alive (Southern expression) - why would He even allow salvation to be brought to them?!? Such heathens.

I, as a preacher, like to hear "amen," "hallelujah," and "praise the Lord" when I preach. I've even had folks raise a hand and shed tears (no toe-tappings or hand-clapping). And I didn't sing one note, so it must be something besides music that causes such a disruption. Oh, that's right, you said those things occur when the flesh is appealed to, so I must be preaching to their flesh.

Amens, tears, smiles, etc., encourage me. That indicates folks are listening, and the message is touching their hearts. If they look at me like a bump on a log (oops, sorry, that's more Southern sneaking out of me), I feel like I haven't reached them with the message.


When you have to sing every song in the hymnal with the patented country feel-sorry-for-me sound, and melody is so unimportant that you don't need to hit the pitches accurately, there is a problem.

You're painting a wide brush here. I've never heard that "patented" sound in a Southern gospel quartet. But "Amazing Grace" sung acapella by a good Southern gospel quartet will speak more to your heart than your congregation singing the same song. And I guarantee you that those men can hit the notes correctly.

Also, are you saying that if I don't hit the note accurately, I have a problem with my worship? I'm sorry that I'm not a professional singer. I'm sorry our church doesn't have a professional singer to lead our music. We do our best. But, according to your post, God doesn't appreciate our singing because we don't hit every note correctly. Well, we'd better change a few words in Scripture:

Psalms 66:1 - Make a joyful perfect sound unto God, all ye lands:

Psalms 81:1 - Sing softly unto God our strength: make a joyful harmony unto the God of Jacob.

Psalms 95:1 - O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful tune to the rock of our salvation.

Psalms 95:2 - Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful melody unto him with psalms.

Psalms 98:4 - Make a joyful ballad unto the LORD, all the earth: make a soft song, and rejoice, and sing praise.

Psalms 98:6 - With just a piano make a joyful sound before the LORD, the King.

Psalms 100:1 - Make a joyful perfect pitch unto the LORD, all ye lands.

There, now Scripture fits your definition of proper worship and praise singing.


You can use a country twang to sing that the Lord fills your heart with joy, but if you're using that mournful twang the message will be that you don't mean it.

All Southern gospel is not steel guitars, fiddles, and harmonicas. In fact, I think somewhere in the SG rules says every quartet is required to use a piano. More contemporary groups use some modern stuff, which I don't agree with. But I can't believe you think four men (usually) and a piano can't worship God correctly just because they have a Southern twang.

C'mon, termite, just admit that you don't like Southern gospel. First you say the twang is wrong because it may cause you to tap your toes or clap your hands. Oops, it may actually cause you to smile too. And later you say that singing that patented "mournful twang" that I'm not serious with my worship.

And that's OK that you don't like it. Keep your stiff-necked, look-down-your-nose formal worship services where everything's done according to a script and rehearsed down the most minute detail. Where only those with perfect voices can sing in your choir (and apparently in the congregation too, by the sound of your posting). Our services are orderly, but not so much that members get their drawers in a twist (Southern expression) if the piano player misses a note. We enjoy having children sing their hearts out to God, including all the bad notes they sing. Apparently my congregation likes my Southern, twangy style preaching, because they continue to come back. Tell them that I don't mean what I preach, and them's fightin' words (oops, more Southern).

Next Sunday, I'll have to tell our folks we have to sit still, be quiet, not sing anymore, and I'll be away for a while to linguistics school until I lose my Southern twang. Otherwise, we're wasting our time because I've been told our style of worship is a "twisted mockery."

Mitch

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There is a world of difference between enjoying something that is right, and deciding that something is right because you enjoy it.

I don't think it's wrong music if it causes you to tap your toes, but all this clapping hands in church and moving them all around doesn't do anything but draw everyone's focus from the message to the attention-starved person doing the wave. Shouting amen so loud that other people can't hear the preaching or singing is not edifying.

Clapping, tapping and waving are all physical responses to the music, not a spiritual response to the words. If you have to do that during singing, you've missed the point.

When you have to sing every song in the hymnal with the patented country feel-sorry-for-me sound, and melody is so unimportant that you don't need to hit the pitches accurately, there is a problem. God's praises ought not to be sung in that fashion. It is a twisted mockery of what God intended His music to be. You can use a country twang to sing that the Lord fills your heart with joy, but if you're using that mournful twang the message will be that you don't mean it.


'Nuther :goodpost: , termite

No-one will ever convince me that the compromisers with their rhythm-centered body-movements have anything to do with glorifying God. The upbeat hymns Mitch mentioned do not have to be sung with any body parts except the mouth and diaphragm.

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Thank you for all of your responses.

One of the critisisms was that we played a Gaither song and that they are ecumenical and compromisers. I have read about the Gaithers on another thread and I agree. We will not be playing anything by them again.

But just something to think about.

How many of you sing "Silent Night" at Christmas? It is in our hymn book (Soul Stirring Songs & Hymns).

If you do may I ask why. This song was written by a ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST.

What about "Away in a Manger" and "A mighty fortress is our God" both by Martin Luther?

Was he not a pedobaptiser and a believer in cotransubstantiation, and some also claim an enemy of baptists?

"Faith of our Fathers" was composed by Frederick Faber as a testimony of his own conversion to Roman Catholicism. This hymn is also found in the Sword of the Lord hymn book!

Perhaps those brethren who are so against blue grass gospel should sit down and weed out some of the hymns/songs that are in their own hymn books.

Just a thought.

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termite,

With respect, you seem to be deciding that something is not right because you don't enjoy it.

Your post is so full of personal preference making assumptions on people's motives.
9
I don't know you, but if I had to guess you were trained in Music. That's nice, but some us can't hit a pitch accurately if our lives depended on it. God accepts our worship. If you prefer to worship God with a exactness where you need to be completely on key perfectly with the melody, then that is fine. It is your preference. Please try not to assume everyone else should worship the same way.

There are extremes on both sides of this debate. Neither, IMHO are pleasing to the Lord. But those in the middle that just love God and want to sing to Him... that is pleasing.


You have completely twisted what I said. I have never, ever, EVER said that you have to be technically perfect for your singing to please the Lord! I do believe we should try to hit pitches accurately. Scooping up to pitches on purpose, as is done in country music, is a technique that belongs with the jazz/pop idioms, not with the music of Christians, and is a completely different thing than some dear saint praising the Lord at the top of his lungs with no sense of pitch whatsoever. God expects our best, whatever it is. When the congregation is singing, everyone does their best. It is only when you have special music that ability is an issue. And it is an issue. We can start a whole new thread on that.

You accuse me of not liking country/bluegrass/whatever, yet I have never stated what I like; I have stated what I believe is right. If you want to know what I like, I will tell you: I like almost everything. I like gregorian chant, rock and roll, big band, opera, musical theatre, 20th century atonality, jazz, all the folk music I've ever heard, heavy metal, Gilbert and Sullivan, baroque dance suites, soft rock, world fusion, electronic art music, choral music, gospel music, baroque and classical music, and, yes, even country music. I can't list every style I enjoy off the top of my head, but the only style of music I can think of that I generally don't care for is Romantic period classical music, but even though I don't like it I respect it as literature. Last Christmas an internet friend who doesn't play the piano send me his rendition of Frosty the Snowman on the piano, and I even enjoyed that! I will tell you here and now, if I listened to what I like I would be listening to plenty of ungodly music. If I come across a little strongly it is because I am so sick and tired of people telling me that I think things are wrong because I "don't like" them. [sarcasm]Because obviously a trained musician only likes "perfect" classical music. [/sarcasm]

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Isn't this contradictory? You say music styles that create sensuality are wrong, then you say style is moot. Please clarify what you mean.
_____________________



It made perfect sense. It's the content of the music that is important, not the label.



termite, I doubt you'll enjoy any of my sermons because I preach with a Southern twang. I don't do it on purpose; it just comes out of my mouth that way. If Southern twangs are so offensive, why on Earth would God call Southern men to preach?!? Land sakes alive (Southern expression) - why would He even allow salvation to be brought to them?!? Such heathens.

I, as a preacher, like to hear "amen," "hallelujah," and "praise the Lord" when I preach. I've even had folks raise a hand and shed tears (no toe-tappings or hand-clapping). And I didn't sing one note, so it must be something besides music that causes such a disruption. Oh, that's right, you said those things occur when the flesh is appealed to, so I must be preaching to their flesh.

Amens, tears, smiles, etc., encourage me. That indicates folks are listening, and the message is touching their hearts. If they look at me like a bump on a log (oops, sorry, that's more Southern sneaking out of me), I feel like I haven't reached them with the message.


You're painting a wide brush here. I've never heard that "patented" sound in a Southern gospel quartet. But "Amazing Grace" sung acapella by a good Southern gospel quartet will speak more to your heart than your congregation singing the same song. And I guarantee you that those men can hit the notes correctly.

Also, are you saying that if I don't hit the note accurately, I have a problem with my worship? I'm sorry that I'm not a professional singer. I'm sorry our church doesn't have a professional singer to lead our music. We do our best. But, according to your post, God doesn't appreciate our singing because we don't hit every note correctly. Well, we'd better change a few words in Scripture:

Psalms 66:1 - Make a joyful perfect sound unto God, all ye lands:

Psalms 81:1 - Sing softly unto God our strength: make a joyful harmony unto the God of Jacob.

Psalms 95:1 - O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful tune to the rock of our salvation.

Psalms 95:2 - Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful melody unto him with psalms.

Psalms 98:4 - Make a joyful ballad unto the LORD, all the earth: make a soft song, and rejoice, and sing praise.

Psalms 98:6 - With just a piano make a joyful sound before the LORD, the King.

Psalms 100:1 - Make a joyful perfect pitch unto the LORD, all ye lands.

There, now Scripture fits your definition of proper worship and praise singing.


All Southern gospel is not steel guitars, fiddles, and harmonicas. In fact, I think somewhere in the SG rules says every quartet is required to use a piano. More contemporary groups use some modern stuff, which I don't agree with. But I can't believe you think four men (usually) and a piano can't worship God correctly just because they have a Southern twang.

C'mon, termite, just admit that you don't like Southern gospel. First you say the twang is wrong because it may cause you to tap your toes or clap your hands. Oops, it may actually cause you to smile too. And later you say that singing that patented "mournful twang" that I'm not serious with my worship.

And that's OK that you don't like it. Keep your stiff-necked, look-down-your-nose formal worship services where everything's done according to a script and rehearsed down the most minute detail. Where only those with perfect voices can sing in your choir (and apparently in the congregation too, by the sound of your posting). Our services are orderly, but not so much that members get their drawers in a twist (Southern expression) if the piano player misses a note. We enjoy having children sing their hearts out to God, including all the bad notes they sing. Apparently my congregation likes my Southern, twangy style preaching, because they continue to come back. Tell them that I don't mean what I preach, and them's fightin' words (oops, more Southern).

Next Sunday, I'll have to tell our folks we have to sit still, be quiet, not sing anymore, and I'll be away for a while to linguistics school until I lose my Southern twang. Otherwise, we're wasting our time because I've been told our style of worship is a "twisted mockery."

Mitch


You know, it wouldn't kill you to be polite. I've never before in my life seen a "preacher" be as rude as you just were. You have the choice to worship the way you want, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would cease name-calling because I disagree with you.

See the above post re: my musical preferences. I don't particularly feel like repeating myself. If you are so offended because I think that making an effort is important, go to Psalm 33:3 and rip "play skilfully with a loud noise" out of the Bible, too, since your career as a textual critic is off to such a good start.

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No-one will ever convince me that the compromisers with their rhythm-centered body-movements have anything to do with glorifying God. The upbeat hymns Mitch mentioned do not have to be sung with any body parts except the mouth and diaphragm.


Interesting PE because there are many Southern Gospel songs that are sung a cappella.


Having good intentions doesn't mean that it is Biblical. The Bible sais that we are not to promote the flesh, and that is exactly what that music does. All music should be (a) orderly and (B) uplifting to the spirit, not the flesh.


So all the dancing in the Bible was wrong ? There are times when dancing is mentioned so is music :shock: . Oh I know why it okay when the Bible says dancing it really doesn't mean dancing, right ? Their dancing wasn't showing any physical excitement it was all spiritual dancing. Hymns that make you feel good are okay as long as they don't cause you to tap a foot or clap... okay I got ya. :roll:

Sorry these arguments just don

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And once again we see the fallacy "you say it's wrong because you don't like it".

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termite:


You know, it wouldn't kill you to be polite. I've never before in my life seen a "preacher" be as rude as you just were. You have the choice to worship the way you want, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would cease name-calling because I disagree with you.


What name were you called :?


And once again we see the fallacy "you say it's wrong because you don't like it".


No the fallacy is "it is wrong because the pitch is wrong"


It is only when you have special music that ability is an issue.


Wrong ! Where in the Bible does it say that "special music in church must be technically accurate to be considered Biblical acceptable". It does not. We have a sweet lady in our church that volunteers occasionally to sing a special. My howling dog carries a tune better than this dear sweet soul but she is doing her best and trying to make a joyful noise unto the Lord. The entire congregation knows she can't sing a lick but she tries and that is all anyone can ask for. I actually have a decent Bass voice but I don't sing solos (unless I am in the car) because singing in front of a crowd terrifies me. Stick me in the crowd and we make some very nice sounds.

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And that's OK that you don't like it. Keep your stiff-necked, look-down-your-nose formal worship services where everything's done according to a script and rehearsed down the most minute detail. Where only those with perfect voices can sing in your choir (and apparently in the congregation too, by the sound of your posting). Our services are orderly, but not so much that members get their drawers in a twist (Southern expression) if the piano player misses a note. We enjoy having children sing their hearts out to God, including all the bad notes they sing. Apparently my congregation likes my Southern, twangy style preaching, because they continue to come back. Tell them that I don't mean what I preach, and them's fightin' words (oops, more Southern).


Amen Brother.

But please I didn't start this thread in order for us to argue and divide.

Why hasn't anyone made a comment about the hymns I mentioned?

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You know, it wouldn't kill you to be polite. I've never before in my life seen a "preacher" be as rude as you just were. You have the choice to worship the way you want, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would cease name-calling because I disagree with you.

Name-calling? I called you "termite" - isn't that your screen name? And your entire posting insinuated that my "choice of worship" was "a problem."

Normally I stay out of the music area because I know those discussions are no-win situations. I float in there to make sure things don't get out of hand, and normally I just roll my eyes over some of the comments. I know I should've turned the other cheek when I read your post, and maybe I went a little overboard, but the sheer arrogance of your post made it hard for me to just sit still. I have never been so upset over a posting since I've been a member of this forum. And I've had some pretty passionate discussions with a lot of folks here. No one has ever set me off like your posting did.

Let's review:

When you have to sing every song in the hymnal with the patented country feel-sorry-for-me sound, and melody is so unimportant that you don't need to hit the pitches accurately, there is a problem. God's praises ought not to be sung in that fashion. It is a twisted mockery of what God intended His music to be. You can use a country twang to sing that the Lord fills your heart with joy, but if you're using that mournful twang the message will be that you don't mean it.

I don't even know where to start. This paragraph is so warped, it was hard for me to keep a straight face after reading it. When I realized you were serious, I had to respond. Please read that paragraph again and tell me it's not condemning me or most IFSB churches out there today. Your comments border on cultural bigotry.

"country feel-sorry-for-me sound"?
"melody is so unimportant that you don't need to hit the pitches accurately"?
"twisted mockery"?
"if you're using that mournful twang the message will be that you don't mean it"?

Then you replied to someone else with this posting:

I have never, ever, EVER said that you have to be technically perfect for your singing to please the Lord!

Let's review:

melody is so unimportant that you don't need to hit the pitches accurately, there is a problem. God's praises ought not to be sung in that fashion. It is a twisted mockery of what God intended His music to be.

Sounds like that's exactly what you said.

It is only when you have special music that ability is an issue. And it is an issue.
Why is it an issue? Because it hurts your ears? I feel sorry for the 3rd graders who might sing "Jesus Loves the Little Children" during your services.
And this was the creme de la creme:

I am so sick and tired of people telling me that I think things are wrong because I "don't like" them.

Me too. And those people will stop telling you when you give them something other than your personal opinions.

Mitch

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Quote:
Whether it's country, rock, hard rock, rap or classical, if it has a repetetive, sensual beat, or any other kind of sensuality, it's wrong. Style is moot.

Isn't this contradictory? You say music styles that create sensuality are wrong, then you say style is moot. Please clarify what you mean.

It made perfect sense. It's the content of the music that is important, not the label.


Huh? Kevin listed styles of music as wrong, then he says style is moot. Moot is defined as "of no significance or relevance." So styles can't be wrong and of no significance at the same time. I was simply asking for a clarification, so I could understand what he was saying.

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What name were you called :?


Go back and read his post. You'll find the name-calling in the paragraph with all the hyphens.


No the fallacy is "it is wrong because the pitch is wrong"


You are deliberately twisting what I said. I never said that it is morally wrong to be out of tune. I said that techniques like sliding and scooping are characteristic techniques of pop and jazz music and don't belong in the church. And, more to the point of the comment of mine to which you were referring, I don't believe country music is wrong because I don't like it. I would love to hear that excuse used against other sins! "Oh, you just say pornography is wrong because you don't like it!" or "You say that abortion is wrong because you don't like it!" or "You say that premarital sex is wrong because you don't like it!" It's not until music standards are discussed that that particular excuse comes up in conversation. There are plenty of things that I don't like that are perfectly fine to do; there is a huge difference between a dislike and a conviction, and I am fully aware of that difference.


Wrong ! Where in the Bible does it say that "special music in church must be technically accurate to be considered Biblical acceptable". It does not. We have a sweet lady in our church that volunteers occasionally to sing a special. My howling dog carries a tune better than this dear sweet soul but she is doing her best and trying to make a joyful noise unto the Lord. The entire congregation knows she can't sing a lick but she tries and that is all anyone can ask for.


In the Bible, when the Lord was pleased with the music, it was well rehearsed and well done. We expect a pastor's message to be well-prepared and that he has studied the topic. So why on earth would you want someone singing special music who is under-rehearsed? Oh, and by the way I didn't say "special music in church must be technically accurate to be considered Biblically acceptable". You invented that idea yourself. I didn't say it. You are inventing the notion that I have an elitist view of special music, and I don't appreciate the gesture. I just believe that if you're going to do something for the Lord you have to put forth your best. If you don't know the notes and words and don't think it's important to know them, you have the wrong attitude about special music.

Imagine you need something like plumbing done to the church building, and someone in all sincerity offers to do it because he really loves the Lord and wants to be a blessing to the church, but doesn't know a thing about plumbing. If you were the pastor, would you let that person do all the plumbing? And when the water started to leak and the building started to get water damage, would you allow that person to do all the repairs? Ability is an issue! If the person doing special music is so poorly rehearsed that it distracts from the message of the song, then there is a problem. That is just common sense. Most people can learn to carry a tune if they only practice it long enough. Most of the time when music is badly done it is due to laziness in rehearsal. And again, being flat is not the same as deliberately scooping and sliding.

Even if you do something as simple as cleaning the church, there are certain things you are expected to do properly. For some reason, it is okay to tell someone that if they clean the church, they must do A, B, and C, but if you present special music in a service, then anything that happens to come out of your mouth or instrument is just fine.

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Normally I stay out of the music area because I know those discussions are no-win situations. I float in there to make sure things don't get out of hand, and normally I just roll my eyes over some of the comments. I know I should've turned the other cheek when I read your post, and maybe I went a little overboard, but the sheer arrogance of your post made it hard for me to just sit still. I have never been so upset over a posting since I've been a member of this forum. And I've had some pretty passionate discussions with a lot of folks here. No one has ever set me off like your posting did.


Well, and good, because I feel the same way about your arrogant, presumptuous post! Telling me to "just admit I don't like" the music, and belittling deeply held convictions as something I believe because it's just what I like. I wouldn't brag about being southern if I were you. Southern men have a reputation for being gentlemen, and you, sir, don't fit that stereotype even a little bit!

You invented things that I never said, and invented things about me and my church, and personally attacked me and my church over what I said about a certain style of music. If you have any manners at all, they certainly weren't displayed here!

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Before I go:


Me too. And those people will stop telling you when you give them something other than your personal opinions.

Mitch


No; it will stop when I start giving them their personal opinions. :roll:

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Well, and good, because I feel the same way about your arrogant, presumptuous post! Telling me to "just admit I don't like" the music, and belittling deeply held convictions as something I believe because it's just what I like. I wouldn't brag about being southern if I were you. Southern men have a reputation for being gentlemen, and you, sir, don't fit that stereotype even a little bit!


I probably deserve most of that, because I allowed my emotions to get the best of me. For losing control of my emotions, I do apologize. But you did start it by attacking the Southern culture style of worship as displeasing to God. And don't try to deny that's not what you meant, because that's exactly what you said. Do we need to go back and review your posts again?

Let's look at your accusations against me:


You invented things that I never said, and invented things about me and my church, and personally attacked me and my church over what I said about a certain style of music. If you have any manners at all, they certainly weren't displayed here!


Regarding personally attacking you and your church, again, you started it by attacking a lot of God-fearing, hellfire-and-brimstone preaching, Bible-teaching, devil-hating IFSB churches by denigrating Southern gospel music. The fervor of your attack led me to assume your church had a more rigidly formal style of worship. I apologize if I have falsely accused your church.

Regarding inventions, however, you are the inventor, dear lady. I never called you any names but "termite" (I still haven't found a paragraph full of hyphens yet, except the one just above). I have quoted exactly what you said in each of my posts. You are the one who re-invents your meaning with every response and accuses those who disagree with you of twisting your words. Let's go back to my favorite paragraph:


When you have to sing every song in the hymnal with the patented country feel-sorry-for-me sound, and melody is so unimportant that you don't need to hit the pitches accurately, there is a problem. God's praises ought not to be sung in that fashion. It is a twisted mockery of what God intended His music to be. You can use a country twang to sing that the Lord fills your heart with joy, but if you're using that mournful twang the message will be that you don't mean it.


That sounds to me that you think Southern gospel is inappropriate for church. That's the entire paragraph, so you cannot claim I'm twisting your words. Then, you respond in a later post with this:


In the Bible, when the Lord was pleased with the music, it was well rehearsed and well done. We expect a pastor's message to be well-prepared and that he has studied the topic. So why on earth would you want someone singing special music who is under-rehearsed? Oh, and by the way I didn't say "special music in church must be technically accurate to be considered Biblically acceptable". You invented that idea yourself. I didn't say it. You are inventing the notion that I have an elitist view of special music, and I don't appreciate the gesture. I just believe that if you're going to do something for the Lord you have to put forth your best. If you don't know the notes and words and don't think it's important to know them, you have the wrong attitude about special music.


I assumed rehearsal was a given. No person in their right mind would step up and perform without rehearsal. I even practice my sermons in the mirror. But you never said anything about rehearsal; your posts dealt with ability only. Here's your exact statement:

It is only when you have special music that ability is an issue. And it is an issue.


Sure, we'd all like our special music to be professionally done. And maybe your church is blessed with professionally talented musicians. But mine is not so blessed, and no matter how much they rehearse, they won't get all the notes. Our piano player practices a lot, but she's not a professional and so she misses a few notes. They do their best, but they're not perfect. Your comments insinuated that their music was not good enough for God ("and it is an issue."), no matter how much they rehearsed; only when you were called on it did you bring up rehearsing.

Wow, you have brought out the worst in me. But I'm proud of my Southern heritage and will defend it when attacked. So, if you'll call off the dogs, I'll go back to being a Southern gentleman.

Mitch

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And that's OK that you don't like it. Keep your stiff-necked, look-down-your-nose formal worship services where everything's done according to a script and rehearsed down the most minute detail. Where only those with perfect voices can sing in your choir (and apparently in the congregation too, by the sound of your posting).


If this is what you mean, he never called you a name. He describes the type of worship service that he, I, and probably some others pictured from what you have posted concerning music in church.


We expect a pastor's message to be well-prepared and that he has studied the topic.


Actually I prefer our Pastor preach where the Lord leads him. If it is from his prepared sermon fine, if he starts chasing rabbits that's good too. As long as he is preaching true to the Word of God it is all good to me. It isn't a refined presentation that is important it is the content. Our Pastor has studied the Bible for many years so I am not concerned if he has "studied the topic".


Oh, and by the way I didn't say "special music in church must be technically accurate to be considered Biblically acceptable". You invented that idea yourself. I didn't say it. You are inventing the notion that I have an elitist view of special music, and I don't appreciate the gesture.


No you are correct I paraphrased, sorry about that. You wrote:

It is only when you have special music that ability is an issue. And it is an issue.
So actually I see that as worse because according to this if someone doesn't have the ability then they shouldn't be singing specials. I was actually giving you the benefit of a doubt here. Someone

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