Members Sothenes Posted October 23, 2006 Members Share Posted October 23, 2006 How does one reconcile Matthew 18:15-17 in the realm of forgiveness except to call it reconciliation or church discipline? Mat 6:14 Mat 6:15 Eph 4:32 How has God forgiven you? 1Jo 1:9 Luk 17:3 Forgiveness sounds conditional in the sense of scripture as recorded in Luke 17:3. Psalm 82:2-3 has me wondering whether we do justice if we overlook the wrongs unrepentent people do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted October 23, 2006 Members Share Posted October 23, 2006 Didn't we just have this "discussion"(debate)? hehe Kevinhttp://onlinebaptist.com/messageboards/viewtopic.php?t=14314&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Yep forgiveness is conditional and the Bible proves that beyond a doubt. Katy-Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted October 23, 2006 Members Share Posted October 23, 2006 Though some believe otherwise. : (see above link) Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kubel Posted October 24, 2006 Members Share Posted October 24, 2006 What kind of forgiveness are we talking about? Blood bought forgiveness from God and brotherly forgiveness from/to man are two different things. Repentance (a change of mind- turning from sin to God) is required for salvation and the forgiveness therein. But I think it's a poor excuse for a Christian to continue to hold a grudge against a brother/sister just because he/she didn't do x to deserve your forgiveness. The grudge you hold can hurt you just as much as the trespass can hurt them. Look at the Amish and that man that killed all those kids. Those Amish were open about the fact that they have forgiven the murderer. But that murderer never did anything as a prerequisit for that forgiveness. Do you believe their forgiveness was genuine? I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tim Posted October 24, 2006 Members Share Posted October 24, 2006 I think you described forgiveness perfectly in that post Kubel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted October 24, 2006 Members Share Posted October 24, 2006 :goodpost: Kubel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sophie Posted October 24, 2006 Members Share Posted October 24, 2006 Kubel, I think there is a difference between hoding a grudge and not forgiving someone. I believe we should always be ready to forgive, but that any forgiveness, whether from God or a person, must be preceded by repentance. On the other hand, we do have an obligation to confront someone who has wronged us so that they can repent, and when they do repent, we must forgive. Sophie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Good post Sophie! Props to you. Katy-Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ezra517 Posted October 25, 2006 Members Share Posted October 25, 2006 amen Kubel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastorj Posted October 25, 2006 Members Share Posted October 25, 2006 We need to forgive. That forgiveness may not be received by the individual, but we must offer it or it will turn to bitterness in our own heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted October 26, 2006 Members Share Posted October 26, 2006 Have you ever offered forgiveness to someone who would not accept it, who said I did nothing to be forgiven for? I think what the Amish did was great, for the wife, children and family of this man did not one thing to their children, they were completely innocent. I feel they needed all of the support that could be mustered up, and the Amish did as Chistian people should. And there is no doubt, if the man was without Christ, he was already serving his time in everlasting punishment. Which is much different than the arrogant person walking on the face of this earth who has murdered someone and will not admit it. And be clear on this, I'm not saying not to offer forgiveness, for one should offer forgiveness, but the offer has to be accepted by the one who has done the bad deed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 So nobody cares that the Bible says that we are to forgive as Christ forgives and Christ only forgives those who repent? You can't have forgiveness without repentance. Katy-Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted October 26, 2006 Members Share Posted October 26, 2006 No, we just have different opinions on what it means. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted October 26, 2006 Members Share Posted October 26, 2006 What we should not do. And I think that's what some of you are alluding to. Not necessarily a difference in opinion, but maybe in the way of expressing it. Seems this happens many times among many very good Christians. For instance. I know of a person who use to carry a small note pad in his shirt pocket. Any time anyone crossed him he would make a note of it in his notepad. From time to time he would go back thru his notepad to be sure he did not forget who had offended him, because he wanted to be sure that he would be able to get back at them if the opportunity presented itself. He had quite a long list, he was easily offended. And this he did, restlessly, several people around can testify to how he got back at them. This is not the way a Christian should live their life. We should not hold grudges against those who offend us and go about getting even. I think this is the kind of forgiveness Jesus is speaking about when we forgive those who trespassed against us. This is a forgiveness that is beneficial to us, not so much to the one who has trespassed against us. It keeps our heart from getting hard. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. Matt 6:12 (KJV) 4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Luke 11:4 (KJV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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