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Is Forgiveness Conditional?

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How does one reconcile Matthew 18:15-17 in the realm of forgiveness except to call it reconciliation or church discipline?

Mat 6:14

Mat 6:15

Eph 4:32

How has God forgiven you?

1Jo 1:9

Luk 17:3

Forgiveness sounds conditional in the sense of scripture as recorded in Luke 17:3.

Psalm 82:2-3 has me wondering whether we do justice if we overlook the wrongs unrepentent people do.

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What kind of forgiveness are we talking about? Blood bought forgiveness from God and brotherly forgiveness from/to man are two different things.

Repentance (a change of mind- turning from sin to God) is required for salvation and the forgiveness therein. But I think it's a poor excuse for a Christian to continue to hold a grudge against a brother/sister just because he/she didn't do x to deserve your forgiveness. The grudge you hold can hurt you just as much as the trespass can hurt them.

Look at the Amish and that man that killed all those kids. Those Amish were open about the fact that they have forgiven the murderer. But that murderer never did anything as a prerequisit for that forgiveness. Do you believe their forgiveness was genuine? I do.

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Kubel, I think there is a difference between hoding a grudge and not forgiving someone. I believe we should always be ready to forgive, but that any forgiveness, whether from God or a person, must be preceded by repentance. On the other hand, we do have an obligation to confront someone who has wronged us so that they can repent, and when they do repent, we must forgive.
Sophie

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Have you ever offered forgiveness to someone who would not accept it, who said I did nothing to be forgiven for?

I think what the Amish did was great, for the wife, children and family of this man did not one thing to their children, they were completely innocent. I feel they needed all of the support that could be mustered up, and the Amish did as Chistian people should.

And there is no doubt, if the man was without Christ, he was already serving his time in everlasting punishment.

Which is much different than the arrogant person walking on the face of this earth who has murdered someone and will not admit it.

And be clear on this, I'm not saying not to offer forgiveness, for one should offer forgiveness, but the offer has to be accepted by the one who has done the bad deed.

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So nobody cares that the Bible says that we are to forgive as Christ forgives and Christ only forgives those who repent? You can't have forgiveness without repentance.

Katy-Anne

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What we should not do. And I think that's what some of you are alluding to. Not necessarily a difference in opinion, but maybe in the way of expressing it. Seems this happens many times among many very good Christians.

For instance. I know of a person who use to carry a small note pad in his shirt pocket. Any time anyone crossed him he would make a note of it in his notepad.

From time to time he would go back thru his notepad to be sure he did not forget who had offended him, because he wanted to be sure that he would be able to get back at them if the opportunity presented itself. He had quite a long list, he was easily offended.

And this he did, restlessly, several people around can testify to how he got back at them. This is not the way a Christian should live their life. We should not hold grudges against those who offend us and go about getting even. I think this is the kind of forgiveness Jesus is speaking about when we forgive those who trespassed against us. This is a forgiveness that is beneficial to us, not so much to the one who has trespassed against us. It keeps our heart from getting hard.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Matt 6:12 (KJV)

4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Luke 11:4 (KJV)

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So nobody cares that the Bible says that we are to forgive as Christ forgives and Christ only forgives those who repent? You can't have forgiveness without repentance.

Katy-Anne


With that thinking, I suppose you should die on a cross in order to forgive as Christ. I don't think anyone here, you included, takes that approach when forgiving a fellow brother/sister. Thankfully, our debt to God for our wrongdoing was paid for on the cross once and for all. But our debt to man is a different story.

Mans forgiveness to man is different than Gods forgiveness to man. They both don't follow the same plan. If they did, I would probably be selling crosses, whips, and crowns of thorns as a living since there would be so much of a demand for sacrifices.

Anyway, if someone wants to risk holding on to bitterness by refusing to forgive- that's their right. I'm just saying I believe we can forgive unconditionally, and I think that's the right thing to do- Not just for the offenders sake, but also for your hearts sake.

But this is just my opinion on the subject amongst many other ones. :tease:

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So nobody cares that the Bible says that we are to forgive as Christ forgives and Christ only forgives those who repent? You can't have forgiveness without repentance.

Katy-Anne


I was listening to a pastor on the radio and he said that the lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world.

The problem is that He didn't wait to be the sacrifice before we said we were sorry.

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I was listening to a pastor on the radio and he said that the lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world.

The problem is that He didn't wait to be the sacrifice before we said we were sorry.


That's completely true, but that slain Lamb will not do a person one bit of good unless they repent and accept, remember, its not automatic, one just can not assume they have forgiveness, if they do, they will wind up in hell forever.

We to, as its been said over and over, should have our arms open and be ready to forgive.

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I would rather sin by forgiving someone (who didn't repent) than sin by not forgiving someone. The latter I believe is the bigger sin.

Don't bother arguing with me on this one. My mind on this point is made up. :)

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Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.


Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

The only conditions that were met for the sinner to recieve pardon from the Lord were met by Him.

Forgiveness is unconditional. There are no strings, no tricks and no conditions.

The Bible says that Christ died for us
1. WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS.
2. UNGODLY.
3. ENEMIES.
4. UNCLEAN.
5. HAVING OUR UNDERSTANDING DARKENED.
6. CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE.
7. WALKING ACCORDING TO THE POWER OF THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD.
8. DEAD IN SINS.
9. VAIN.
10.WRETCHED.

I guess we get the picture.

Repentance is a lifetime process. I never stop repenting.
I met no conditions whatsoever to be saved.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

We would cry aloud against a cult that would place requirements upon the grace of God, yet in our zeal to fend off what we call easy believism we play another extremism and insist upon a sinner meeting certain requirements other than that of simply being a sinner.


It is a free gift.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

What was it exactly that you repented of to be saved? What is it exactly that you need to repent of today?


C'mon brethren, repentance is not a one time event. As Christians we need to repent (probably on a daily basis) over and over again.


2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

God bless,

Calvary

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The Bible makes it pretty clear that repentance is necessary for salvation:

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

What you are doing is setting one part of Scripture against another - all is to be taken together, rightly-divided together. If you have a conclusion that contradicts other passages - then you have the wrong conclusion. What does Hebrews 12:17 have to do with this discussion anyway - that is not referring to salvation, but referring to Esau losing the blessing and not being able to get it back.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Revelation 9:20-21 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 16:9-11 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

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What was it exactly that you repented of in order to be saved?



What is it exactly that you need to repent of today?

Two questions that I have yet to hear folks answer honestly in a discussion about repentance and its role in the life of the believer.

God bless,

Calvary

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When I was saved I repented of the life I had lived without Christ. I repented of walking outside Gods will and turned to Christ as my only hope of salvation.

As a Christian, there are times the Lord will bring to my attention a sin that is yet in my life, or a sin that has crept back in. When the Lord brings such to my attention, I repent and ask forgiveness.

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