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Pensacola Bible institute

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Amie Jo

Let me clear up one more thing. I made a copy of Kent Hovind videos years agon and gave them to Ron and his family as well as 20 other people. I know that after we watch that series how Kent showed in scripture and his opinion most of us changed our stand a bit. Dr. Gipp still belives the gap theory I believe.

There is a lot of good teaching at PBI. I just wish that I heard it long ago.

Bro. Bob Owen

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[quote="bibleworm"]
I do not approve of the way Dr. Ruckman treats others.my GRANDPARENTS heard him preach and because of his horrid message they didnt get saved till 12 years later...and yet i am going to his bibe college next year.there are many things i do not agree with of his...but you rarely find anyone you will completely agree with!my parents taught me you have to pick the right apples out of a carton full of bad ones.but dont pick a bad apple its grim will stick a longggg time.i can assure you i will not become like doctor ruckman.but he does have good doctrine mixed in and i will pick it out.(everyone says im to kindhearted to become like that)i do not believe in his gap theory. and some other things.if the bible says it its true to me...and i do NOT see a gap theory in the bible. all i want to do by going there is to learn more about my Bible and if i dont see it in my bible...i wont believe it and that settles everything in my mind.


Amie Jo
[/quote]


[color=#a30000]This makes no sense. :? When I was a teen, the kids in my church went basically to one of two Bible colleges. By the time I graduated from high school, many things about these colleges made it evident that I would be disagreeing more than agreeing and the issues were Biblical issues. I didn't settle for the one I could bear the most or whatever. I prayed for a different college and found one. It had a totally different mindset from the other two.

You don't [b]have[/b] to go to PBI. If you already know there is a lot you disagree with (and I feel the issues are major), then find a different college. It is as simple as that.

If you disagree with the gap theory (and you should), if you disagree with the harshness and rudeness (and you should), if you agree that Ruckman has disqualified himself repeatedly (and you should) then go somewhere else that doesn't have these issues.

Go read Galatians chapter 5 and tell me what those behaviors signify: flesh or spirit?[/color]

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
[quote="bibleworm"]I do not approve of the way Dr. Ruckman treats others.my GRANDPARENTS heard him preach and because of his horrid message they didnt get saved till 12 years later...and yet i am going to his bibe college next year.there are many things i do not agree with of his...but you rarely find anyone you will completely agree with!my parents taught me you have to pick the right apples out of a carton full of bad ones.but dont pick a bad apple its grim will stick a longggg time.i can assure you i will not become like doctor ruckman.but he does have good doctrine mixed in and i will pick it out.(everyone says im to kindhearted to become like that)i do not believe in his gap theory. and some other things.if the bible says it its true to me...and i do NOT see a gap theory in the bible. all i want to do by going there is to learn more about my Bible and if i dont see it in my bible...i wont believe it and that settles everything in my mind.


Amie Jo
[/quote]


[color=#a30000]This makes no sense. :? When I was a teen, the kids in my church went basically to one of two Bible colleges. By the time I graduated from high school, many things about these colleges made it evident that I would be disagreeing more than agreeing and the issues were Biblical issues. I didn't settle for the one I could bear the most or whatever. I prayed for a different college and found one. It had a totally different mindset from the other two.

You don't [b]have[/b] to go to PBI. If you already know there is a lot you disagree with (and I feel the issues are major), then find a different college. It is as simple as that.[/color][/quote]

A most hearty AMEN, Bakers-6. :sing: :sing: :sing: :sing: :sing:

Also, I can whole-heartily endorse [b]Ambassador Baptist College (ABC)[/b] in North Carolina. I have some very good friends (not to mention a very Godly son in law) that went there.

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bibleworm,

There are several good Baptist colleges out there that follow the Word of God to the letter. By attending those schools, you won't have to spend all that time deciding what's good and what's bad. Plus, if an instructor teaches something you disagree with, you'll have to give the school's answer on exams (that's not easy to do, believe me).

You have the names of several good colleges in this thread (Heartland Baptist Bible College in Oklahoma City - two of my children go there :mrgreen: ). Do some more research and find a solid school. Don't settle for a school that doesn't fit your understanding of Scripture.

Mitch

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BobOwen wrote:[quote]
Yes I know my scripture. Let me correct you on some things about the divorces of Dr. Ruckman. First marriage he never got the divorce his ex wife failed to get it granted in lower court and she took it to the Supreme Court of Alabama and she lost. She also lost all rights to alimony because she was found to have tried to defraud the court in filing false accusations against him. The second marriage his wife tried for 12 years to destroy him by getting the church against him and almost succeeded by doing so. When confronted she lied then in front of the whole church in 1988 she confessed that she lied and stated in front of all present that she was the one that wanted to still divorce him. I have heard from 4 eyewitness accounts of this event before I read it or heard the Dr. speak of it.
[/quote]

In the interest of full disclosure, I have not met Dr. Ruckman, nor do I care to. But if he's talking about his own divorces, as you say he is, then I assume his divorces are true.

You say you know Scripture. Thus, you know 1 Timothy 3 outlines the qualifications for a pastor and a deacon. Scripture is about as clear as it can get that a pastor or deacon has only one wife. And since the marriage principle is one mate for a lifetime, we can extrapolate 1 Tim 3 to mean one wife for a lifetime, not one wife at a time.

Even if you disagree with that, it's obvious that Dr. Ruckman does not rule his own house well, if four wives have rebelled against him. He truly must be a hard man to live with.

Your comments about Kings David and Solomon are moot. They were kings, not pastors or deacons. 1 Timothy 3 applies to pastors and deacons, not kings. In fact, I would add that based on the qualification listed in 1 Timothy 3, God holds the positions of pastor and deacon higher than He holds the position of king. God certainly added more restrictions on pastors and deacons than He did kings.

I'm sorry about your family's involvement with divorce, but what has that got to do with this discussion? I know many good people who fall into the nasty trap of divorce. God can still use them for His glory, but not as pastors or deacons. And just because your family went through divorce doesn't excuse a pastor's disqualification because of divorce.

Why would you want to sit under someone who obviously has no discernment regarding people? Four wives? What gives him the authority to counsel with a married couple if he can't keep his own marriage or marriages intact?

Unfortunately, Kevin Hovind's reputation is tarnished now. He may have produced some good stuff, but his failure to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's overshadows any good work he has done. That's a shame, but that's the way it is. But if he's from Dr. Ruckman's camp and is teaching the gap error, then I'm glad I haven't seen any of his works.

It appears to me that you essentially worship Dr. Ruckman and his disciples. You have been blinded by your adoration for him that you cannot see his error. You may enjoy his preaching, and Scripturally he can still preach, but he's disqualified from pastoring or being a deacon.

Pastor Mitch Holmes

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[quote="BobOwen"]
Did any of you cut out Psalms 51 yet out of your Bible?

Nope. ... [b]King David had a man killed had adultery with a married women and still was king. Why did God allow any more Psalms in the Bible after all his sins. Why did not God take Song of Solomon out too. Why did he let Solomon stay king? God is not us and He his more mercy than all of us combined.[/b]
[/quote]

Hw can you compare a king to a pastor? God established the role of the pastor. God didn't establish the role of a earthly king (nor approve of it). A king is a dictator. A pastor is a shepherd that is to feed the flock spiritual food. If you believe pastors are kings on earth, do you also believe that Mary is the queen of heaven? Both ideas are ludicrous. Let me quote some verses.
Luke 22:25-27
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

Jesus Christ gave us the perfect example of a pastor. He was the pastor of the church at that time. Before he ascended back to heaven he said to Peter:

John 21:15-17
15 ¶ So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Now what does forgiveness have anything to do with him being able to stay in the pastorate? It doesn't matter if his wife left him or not, he remarried. Two wrongs don't make a right. He can serve God in a different way but not as a pastor.

Besides that, anyone that teaches the gap theory is not teaching this from God's word. His word is plain and simple. 6 days.

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[quote="chev1958"]
Unfortunately, Kevin Hovind's reputation is tarnished now. He may have produced some good stuff, but his failure to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's overshadows any good work he has done. That's a shame, but that's the way it is. But if he's from Dr. Ruckman's camp and is teaching the gap error, then I'm glad I haven't seen any of his works.
[/quote]

[color=#a30000]
Just a quick note here, Kent Hovind does [b]NOT[/b] believe in the gap theory nor does he teach it. He is vehemently against it and teaches that it is a dangerous doctrine.[/color]

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I am about as mainline IFB as anyone and probably the last person you would think of as a "Ruckmanite", but I have listened to his tapes for years, read the BBB, and know people who currently go to PBI. I find him to be very down-to-earth and practicial.

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i find that i agree with him more than i disagree.all you may believe differently but i believe in alot of his things that he teachs from the bible.my sister,brother,cousins,and my sisters fiance goes there.everyone in my church has either gone,will go,or is going.and i believe God is calling me to study there before i go to Malawi Africa.i have heard that people that go to PBI last the longest out in the field because Dr Ruckman is hard on them PREPARING them for the troubles ahead.i dont want to fail in the field...most of you will say"God will not let you fail" but God helps most the time...he doesnt do everything he expects you to do somin yourself.Im going to go to PBI.i think my mind is made up.at PCC i have heard that many people that go there lose their faith in the KJV as the true holy word of God.and honestly i dont think i could ever trust another bible college.im going to open an orphange in Malawi Africa and i will teach those kids and in order for me to teach them i must be taught and taught according to what i believe.
sure i could study the bible for myself and figure out everything.but that takes years and i would rather learn from the bible quickly within a few years because as im sitting here at my laptop some kid could be starving and no place to go,no clothes to clothe themselves with.

Im going to PBI.as soon i as i finish geometery tho.which means i leave next year around august.and who cares if ill be the youngest there.(i love geometery)

for BobOwen.
i wasnt sure whether you were bashing or not.but im glad you werent.Pastor Robinson is the best Pastor in the whole world.hes kindhearted,and hes out to win souls,and instead of preaching the same sermon over an over again he gives the church real meat of the Bible.im glad to hear you know him and that you know what i mean when i talk about him.he even said my piano playing was good :D which is a big thing for me because i only started piano lessons a month ago and learning classical songs.ill say it again....
MY PASTOR IS THE GREATEST!!!!:D


Amie Jo


(p.s. think thats long enough?)

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Pastor Mitch,

Did you read my previous posts about Ruckman. I"M NOT A RUCKMANITE!!! Dr. Ruckman has had only 2 ex wifes and he is still in good heath for a man over 80.

A lot of Pastors don't get it. I was introduced to the King James Bible from Pastor Steve Sturgeon first. Then we found a great Bible Believing Church over a hour drive away from our home which we made the trip every week the Pastor by the name of Ron Robinson. Then we met Sam Gipp and family twice in two years. After Sam left the second time I kept hearing him and others around our church talk about the Doc or Dr. and PBI. THen I asked who they were talking about. Pastor Brad Frisen and Bro. Paul Huddlestun said you did not know about Dr. Ruckman. They gave me his autobiography and I read it. Also some of his messages.

So you are totally blameless too?? Never sinned huh? Sounds like those who say they are like the Nazarene.

BLA'MELESS, a. Without fault; innocent; guiltless; not meriting censure.

Without fault anything folks!!! Men have you ever slept with a lady before marriage? According to the Book your married. The bible says if you have KNOWN a women you have been joining flesh with flesh.

The modern tradition is our wedding ceremonies not what the Bible calls a marriage.

So God does not forgive people. All men must be perfect for them to be any part of the ministry.

All the men who preach who went to PBI are not qualified to preach because they were taught by a sinner and a man who was faulty.

Eat, drink, and be merry because there is not a faultless man on earth!!

Bro. Bob Owen
who Pastor Mitch does not know!!

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Did you know that rat poisoning is 98% corn meal? 98% of it is good stuff. It's just the 2% poison that makes it bad. You may agree with most of the things he says, but if he's teaching the gap theory, that makes him a heretic. If you agree with it and wish to discuss the validity of the theory we can do that in another post. However, most everyone on this board is not deluded by it.

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JJJ,
do you read my posts?

Here is what I said:
Pastor Ron Robinson was my Pastor in Oregon long ago. I heard about the gap theory from him first. Matter of fact I even after the sermon that he mention it he showed it to me. He is a good friend of our family I've watch his kids grow up. I was introduced to him after I heard a message from Pastor Steve Stergeon about the King James Bible.

Pastor Ron was Pastored under Lester Roloff not Dr. Ruckman.

Did I say I heard the gap theory from Dr. Ruckman? Nope!!
Did I say I beleieved the gap theory? Nope!!

I've not seen in scripture any thing to say it is not true either. I don't think it is poison to hear from the list of Pastors I listed earlier??

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[color=#a30000]What is so deadly about the gap theory is that it is a compromise for Christians who try to reconcile what the Bible says with what evolutionists say. Evolution is a false religion; it is not science.

The gap theory is 100% wrong. God says He created everything in 6 literal days. Period.[/color]

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
[color=#a30000]What is so deadly about the gap theory is that it [b]is a compromise [/b]for Christians who try to reconcile what the Bible says with what evolutionists say. Evolution is a false religion; it is not science.

The gap theory is 100% wrong. God says He created everything in 6 literal days. Period.[/color]
[/quote]

I fully remember being indoctrinated into the Gap Theory with the Scofield Bible and the Bible Church we attended when I got saved at the age of 12 (early summer of 1956). That was fifty years ago. Just look at the evil and corrupt fruit that false teaching has borne. From that false religion and its ilk we now have all manner of apostasy and error. It is clearly seen in the false Bible versions, the MVs, sloppy Christian music, aka CCM, and the modern Southern Gospel stuff with its moon-croon style and mush-gush antics from the performers.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

It's all part of the falling away of the last days.

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[quote="BobOwen"]
JJJ,
do you read my posts?

Here is what I said:
Pastor Ron Robinson was my Pastor in Oregon long ago. I heard about the gap theory from him first. Matter of fact I even after the sermon that he mention it he showed it to me. He is a good friend of our family I've watch his kids grow up. I was introduced to him after I heard a message from Pastor Steve Stergeon about the King James Bible.

Pastor Ron was Pastored under Lester Roloff not Dr. Ruckman.

Did I say I heard the gap theory from Dr. Ruckman? Nope!!
Did I say I beleieved the gap theory? Nope!!

I've not seen in scripture any thing to say it is not true either. I don't think it is poison to hear from the list of Pastors I listed earlier??
[/quote]

I did not say you believed in it. Just said if you do we can discuss it in another post. I am glad to know you do not believe this.

What is the gap theory? It is an attempt to unite the worse heresy schemed by man: evolution; with the only written truth we have from God: the Bible.

Compromise. Plain and simple.

What is devastating about it? The Bible says:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

According to the gap theory, death is not a result from sin. If millions or billions of years happened between the verses in Genesis, and many animals died during that time and placed fossils, then death is something natural and not a punishment from God. Therefore sin is not the cause of death. Therefore no need for a Saviour.

Also, according to gap theory, God didn't mean it when he said, Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. [b]And the evening and the morning were the first day[/b]." Nor did he mean that "And the evening and the morning were the second day." and each other time it says this.

So much for God being honest. I don't know how you could get anything else out of, "And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

The Jews seemed to understand what he meant pretty well with the sabbath. It didn't mean some abstract thing such as "a long time period".

Compromise is how the catholic church got started.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

You take out the first precepts and all the rest fall out. I wouldn't be surprised if they soon stop teaching salvation by grace through faith (assuming they still do).

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
[color=#a30000]What is so deadly about the gap theory is that it is a compromise for Christians who try to reconcile what the Bible says with what evolutionists say. Evolution is a false religion; it is not science.

The gap theory is 100% wrong. God says He created everything in 6 literal days. Period.[/color]
[/quote]

You beat me to it. :lol: I type too slow.

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Don't know how scientists can ignore the Bible. My dad is a self-made geologist and also Creationist and has taught Creation classes in a few churches. The world is full of literal proof of the flood...which is also literal proof of the entire Biblical account. Everything in the Bible can be proven by studying geology, archaology, and the fossil record!

The gap theory is ridiculous because it makes up an entire doctrine or historical period that is NOT THERE. Its like saying there should be a verse after John 3:16 saying we have to stand on our head for 30 days in addition to salvation. You can't just arbitrarily add stuff to Scripture.

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[quote="JJJ4given"]
[quote="Bakershalfdozen"][color=#a30000]What is so deadly about the gap theory is that it is a compromise for Christians who try to reconcile what the Bible says with what evolutionists say. Evolution is a false religion; it is not science.

The gap theory is 100% wrong. God says He created everything in 6 literal days. Period.[/color]
[/quote]

You beat me to it. :lol: I type too slow.[/quote]

[color=#a30000]
That's ok, JJJ. :mrgreen: You wrote more that I did and I hope it is helpful to anyone who might be confused about the gap theory. You are right about death coming because of and after sin and not the other way around.[/color] :goodpost:

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BobOwen,

I apologize if I misread your obviously judgmental post defending Dr. Ruckman:

[quote]
Have anyone one here ever MET Dr. Ruckman??
Have you ever called him and ask him a question??
Have you ever heard his complete testimony from him in his own words??? Have anyone here had a parent divorce another parent?? Has anyone here read your Bible in your life time over 200 times cover to cover?? Has anyone here tithed over 25%?

Has anyone here heard of the following:
James Modlish
Steve Stergeon
Doug Fisher
Rick DeMichele
Rick Sowell
Brad Frisen
Paul Huddlestun
Ken Blue
John Paisley
Tim Shanks
John Haveman
Chuck Schlink
Nick Serino
Ron Robinson
and on and on and on ....

Did any of you cut out Psalms 51 yet out of your Bible?

Bro Bob Owen
[/quote]

The vehemence with which you posted indicated you were defending Dr. Ruckman and that the men you listed were in agreement with him. And you were defending him with such vigor that it appeared you agreed with him as well. If that's not the case, then I suggest you post your comments more calmly so others can really understand what you are saying.

[quote]
A lot of Pastors don't get it. I was introduced to the King James Bible from Pastor Steve Sturgeon first. Then we found a great Bible Believing Church over a hour drive away from our home which we made the trip every week the Pastor by the name of Ron Robinson. Then we met Sam Gipp and family twice in two years. After Sam left the second time I kept hearing him and others around our church talk about the Doc or Dr. and PBI. THen I asked who they were talking about. Pastor Brad Frisen and Bro. Paul Huddlestun said you did not know about Dr. Ruckman. They gave me his autobiography and I read it. Also some of his messages.
[/quote]

I don't understand this comment, especially the first sentence. What are "pastors" supposed to get from your personal history? What is your point?

[quote]
So you are totally blameless too?? Never sinned huh? Sounds like those who say they are like the Nazarene. BLA'MELESS, a. Without fault; innocent; guiltless; not meriting censure.
[/quote]

Blameless does not mean sinless. If it did, then there would be no preachers at all. The connotation of blameless means that no one can lay blame on a person. Therefore, a pastor should be a man that no human can find fault with. That doesn't mean perfection, but the pastor has not committed a "public" sin that would damage the reputation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[quote]
Without fault anything folks!!! Men have you ever slept with a lady before marriage? According to the Book your married. The bible says if you have KNOWN a women you have been joining flesh with flesh. The modern tradition is our wedding ceremonies not what the Bible calls a marriage.
[/quote]

I take great exception with this. Are you accusing me of this? On what basis do you make this accusation, sir? Or are you just assuming that all men do this? Is this an admission on your part as well? Tread lightly here.

[quote]
So God does not forgive people. All men must be perfect for them to be any part of the ministry.
[/quote]

God forgives, if the person who sins repents. But the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3 still stand. If you go back and read my post, I said Dr. Ruckman could still preach, but he could not pastor. You are confusing the difference between pastoring and preaching. We are all commanded to "preach," i.e., spread the gospel, but we are not all called to pastor (nor be a deacon). There are sins that God brings to my attention that I still deal with, but those sins do not disqualify me from the pastorate, in accordance with 1 Timothy 3.

Any church member in good standing can work in any ministry of a church. However, if they have done what Dr. Ruckman admits doing (divorce), then they cannot pastor nor be a deacon. Scripture is crystal clear on that - why can't you see it? If you can find in 1 Timothy 3 or in Titus where God says you can go back to the pastorate or deaconship if He forgives you for violating the qualifications, then please show us where it is.

[quote]
All the men who preach who went to PBI are not qualified to preach because they were taught by a sinner and a man who was faulty.
[/quote]

I didn't say this. However, if the instructor is teaching error, and the men under him continue to spread that error, then they are faulty and should be removed from the pastorate, because they are no longer "blameless."

The wording of your post led me to believe Dr. Ruckman taught the gap error because a couple of the men you listed you said believed in it. I made a faulty assumption based on your posting and I have been corrected on that. There again, you would probably be more clear if you post in a calm manner. And if you'd like to continue as a member here, I suggest you adopt a calmer tone.

Mitch

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