Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

PastorMatt

Bring your guns to church

Recommended Posts

Jerry,
If you are sitting in your church, and some nut starts beating your kid, or slapping your wife around, are you going to just say "stop that"? If you're liek me, you will react. In an altercation, I am going to reach for the most powerful weapon I can get my hands on, if it's nothing but a songbook or my Bible. If you react with nothing more than your fist you have just used a weapon. I don't carry a gun, but we've had at least one pastor who did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The topic is: Bring your guns to church. Jesus' Church is no place to bring your guns.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

James 3:17-18 (KJV)



You can use all types of human wisdom and reason out what you should and should not do, but we are to use wisdom from above.

Whatever I might do, I'm a very poor example for anyone to follow even though I try hard to do that which is right, but Jesus is a great example, He is even the perfect example to follow and that is the example I point to that ever child of God ought to follow.

By the way, if the pastor you spoke of brought a gun to church with him in Arkansas he would be breaking the law. If he were to do so at our church I would kindly ask him to get rid of the gun & or leave, his choice. I would do the same to anyone else that brought a gun into our church.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
John' date=' what does that mean? :puzzled:[/quote']
I believe he is saying to look to the Word.
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I agree with Jerry# that in Arkansas, it would be wrong because it is against the law.

I do not agree that by entering the church the same practical rules that apply to the home go away. There is nothing, IMO, super-duper different about the church building and anywhere else.

So I commend those who say no guns at all, or guns everywhere. But to say guns are fine at home, but not a church.

I think the "all public places" group makes some logical sense as well, even though I disagree that there is a fundamental difference. (how many people does it take to constitute a crowd?) If I have a barbecue with 50 people in my house do I need to get rid of the guns first?

Anyway, an interesting discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Crushmaster. Are you still interested in continuing the discussion you were having with me? You asked the following question of me and in accordance with your wishes I spent time preparing an answer:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A couple of disciples were "carrying" here Luke 22:36-38 Luke 22:49-51

Yes they were, but were they setting in a New Testament Church? Besides that take a very close look at what Jesus told Peter about living by the sword.

John, no need, you've mentioned Acts several times, they ignore New Testament principles, and revert to the Old Testament where they were under the law, it serves the purpose of their ways and of course Acts does not.

And now I'm being called self-righteous by the same one who keep going on about my disability, I pay it no mind, but consider such an attack a compliment.


Again your own statements don't even make sense when put together, in one place you say the the disciples weren't meeting in the New Testament Church, then you agree with Wilchbla that the New Testament church isn't a building, and then in the next paragraph you say the Building is a Consecrated place(implying it has status like the Temple of the Old Testament). I would like you to support your inconsistent position with Scripture Please? Or at the very least show me were in the New Testament this consecrated building is that Christ established by his command. And then I would like to move on to the Living by the Sword, Dying by the Sword statement you keep using, as near as I can figure by your repeated use of this statement, that you believe it means any person who owns or carries a weapon will by killed by a like or similar weapon, yet the simple statistics don't bear that argument out, clearly not every person who has ever carried a weapon has died by a like weapon, so I would like you to explain that scripture as you keep referring to it, Please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this country, if you carried a gun anywhere you would be breaking the law. If you did and it was seen, you would be in an armed siege with the police and likely to be only allowed out if you stripped down to your knickers with your hands in the air. The alternative would be to be shot and periodically that has happened, even when imitation weapon has been carried. There was a case where a man carrying a table leg in a bag who was not threatening anybody was shot by police. He was daef and did not hear their shouted (so they say) warning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed. In fact, you're not allowed to carry anything as a weapon at any time. The only time you're allowed to brandish something as a weapon is when you're actually in the process of being attacked. Then you're allowed to grab whatever is to hand. You can carry tools of the trade with you, like butchers knives, but if the Police think your intent is to arm yourself, you could be judged guilty of an offence. I think you might be allowed to carry pepper spray, though.

Ah well. I've never been to Whitstable, Invicta. I live in Cambridge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am fortunate that where I live, you can walk down the street with a gun and no one will say anything, because they probably have one to. :smile

Only the californians that move into the area get a little riled till they get to know the area.

I got a call one day of a man with a gun outside a bank. I rolled up and called the guy over. I could see what happened. He had just purchased a shotgun from a gun store 2 blocks from the bank. I explained to him that is chosen route to walk home was not the best and gave him a ride home.

Invicta, have you had a bad experience with law enforcement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
But this idea about 'degrees' of trust in God is exactly what I don't understand. And Jerry seems to reject it himself elsewhere in his posts.

Hmm. Well, sir, you could perhaps say there are "degrees" of trust; that is, you trust God some, you trust Him a lot, you trust Him all the time, you hardly trust Him at all.

However, I would say that really you either trust Him or you don't.

I apologize if this is off-topic, sir, but are you a believer?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm. Well, sir, you could perhaps say there are "degrees" of trust; that is, you trust God some, you trust Him a lot, you trust Him all the time, you hardly trust Him at all.

However, I would say that really you either trust Him or you don't.

I apologize if this is off-topic, sir, but are you a believer?
In Christ,
Crushmaster.


I trust God all the time and I pray and trust that when called upon my aim will be sure and will preserve innocent life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would any of you ever think or consider of doing this?

And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 7:60 (KJV)

From the way some of you post the only thing you think of is shooting them and sending them to hell.

Seems to me Stephen was truly peaceable and harmless and definitely had a heart of kindness even towards those who did him much harm, even cruelly murdering him. That had to be a very painful death, yes he wished them no harm, even prayed for them while dying at their hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
However' date=' I would say that really you either trust Him or you don't.[/quote']
Ok, and my point of contention in this discussion has been that you and Jerry have at times appeared to argue both points simultaneously: that there are degrees but there are not degrees. That's what I'm struggling with.

No, I'm not saved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you want me to do, tell everyone to throw their guns away? Do you want me to be for our government to tell its citizens they can't have guns?

If you have a thousand guns in your home, that is up to you.

And actually whatever choice anyone here makes, I want it to be their choice, and if they chose to put their faith in God, I want it to between them and God.

I know in most cases what choice I hope I would make, but until I've been tried, I don't know what I will do. But if I have no faith in God on very small matters, when big matters come up, I surely will not have faith them.

Remember, we have 2 sides pulling at us who are saved, what I call that small quite voice in us, the Holy Spirit, but we also have this worldly world & Old Satan trying their best to pull us from God and to live like the world, or heathens, atheist, & such.

I might add, for the most part, most of us get a lot larger dose of the world than we do God's teachings, after all most of us live in the world, work with the world, work with lost people, I know many Christians whose best friends are lost people who will never darken the door of one of Jesus' Churches plus many of us has let Hollywood influence us through the TV set and movies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you want me to do' date=' tell everyone to throw their guns away? Do you want me to be for our government to tell its citizens they can't have guns?[/quote']
No, I was just asking for further clarification of what you believed and advice on the bit I didn't understand. Wasn't trying to impose my own view--just asking for other peoples' (e.g. yours). If I don't understand what someone is arguing, I'll often ask if it can be clarified further or explained in different words I might understand easier. Can't see what's wrong with that. Some of what you've just said has in fact put me in the picture, anyway. Shan't press any further. :smile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you want me to do, tell everyone to throw their guns away? Do you want me to be for our government to tell its citizens they can't have guns?

If you have a thousand guns in your home, that is up to you.

And actually whatever choice anyone here makes, I want it to be their choice, and if they chose to put their faith in God, I want it to between them and God.

I know in most cases what choice I hope I would make, but until I've been tried, I don't know what I will do. But if I have no faith in God on very small matters, when big matters come up, I surely will not have faith them.

Remember, we have 2 sides pulling at us who are saved, what I call that small quite voice in us, the Holy Spirit, but we also have this worldly world & Old Satan trying their best to pull us from God and to live like the world, or heathens, atheist, & such.

I might add, for the most part, most of us get a lot larger dose of the world than we do God's teachings, after all most of us live in the world, work with the world, work with lost people, I know many Christians whose best friends are lost people who will never darken the door of one of Jesus' Churches plus many of us has let Hollywood influence us through the TV set and movies.


:goodpost:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
Ok' date=' and my point of contention in this discussion has been that you and Jerry have at times appeared to argue [i']both points simultaneously: that there are degrees but there are not degrees. That's what I'm struggling with.

No, I'm not saved.

I see. To a point there are degrees, yes - but, overall, it's whether you do or don't.

Thank you for answering my question, as well. :smile
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Molly, A question just for you.

Does men setting in their churches with their guns under their jacket sound like brave men?

Does men setting in their churches without guns under their jackets sound like brave men?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed. In fact, you're not allowed to carry anything as a weapon at any time. The only time you're allowed to brandish something as a weapon is when you're actually in the process of being attacked. Then you're allowed to grab whatever is to hand. You can carry tools of the trade with you, like butchers knives, but if the Police think your intent is to arm yourself, you could be judged guilty of an offence. I think you might be allowed to carry pepper spray, though.

Ah well. I've never been to Whitstable, Invicta. I live in Cambridge.


I am quite sure that you are not allowed to carry a pepper spray.


I am fortunate that where I live, you can walk down the street with a gun and no one will say anything, because they probably have one to. :smile

Only the californians that move into the area get a little riled till they get to know the area.

I got a call one day of a man with a gun outside a bank. I rolled up and called the guy over. I could see what happened. He had just purchased a shotgun from a gun store 2 blocks from the bank. I explained to him that is chosen route to walk home was not the best and gave him a ride home.

Invicta, have you had a bad experience with law enforcement?


No I never had.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 40 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...