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PastorMatt

Bring your guns to church

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Not when it comes to matters of faith' date=' IMO. I recognize there is a difference, but I do not see how they differ when it comes to [b']if I have enough Faith in God.

Lets examine:

Wearing seatbelt. Do I trust God with my life? Yes, but I wear my seatbelt. Could wearing one be mis-construed as a sign that I do not trust God with my life? You bet.

Locking doors at night: Do I trust God to keep me safe from intruders? Sure, but I lock my doors at night. Could locking my doors be mis-construes as a sign that I do not trust God for my protection? You bet.

Going to the Doctor: Do I trust that God can and will heal me of my ailments? Sure, but I go to the Doctors when I get them. Could going to the Doctor's be mis-construed as a sign that I do not trust God with my health? You bet.

Carrying a gun: Do I trust God to protect me and my family from harm from a person who intends to kill us? Sure, but I carry a gun as a means of protection. Is my carrying a gun being mis-construed as a sign that I do not trust God with my and my families protection? You bet.

You are many more times more likely to (a) be in a car accident (B) be sick and © have someone intrude your houses, I would daresay, than be in an opportunity where you would (so you think) need to blow someone away.

I don't mind men (emphasis here) carrying guns, to a point. I just get very much concerned when they seem to put more trust in them than in God.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

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He brings that up at every opportunity, he can't stand it that I've got a birth defect that puts quite a bit of pressure on my brain stem, its kind of a ongoing personal attack that has been taking place off and on for a couple of years.

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I guess the only question I have for you here Jerry is, Are you still drawing your income from disability(social security)? If you are then you yourself are relying on one of those worldly things instead of fully trusting in God to provide for you. So are you still living on SSI? Inquiring minds want to know how your faith is doing since you are intent on questioning everybody else's faith. Beam and mote comes to mind in this case.


Precisely what I was trying to get through to him in a more subtle approach in my email concerning trusting the Father as Jesus stated in how he feeds the birds and clothes the flowers. But I didn't put it bluntly enough apparently.

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You are many more times more likely to (a) be in a car accident (B) be sick and © have someone intrude your houses' date=' I would daresay, than be in an opportunity where you would (so you think) need to blow someone away.[/quote']
It looks like you're saying here that trust should be placed in God for the outcome of the less risky things but not the things that are "...many more times more likely..." to happen. If that's not what you're saying, I don't understand what relevance the degree of risk you've just identified has to do with anything.

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The church house and the property sets on is a sacred place. It is a place to worship the Lord thy God, it is a very special place. After all its a place where one of Jesus' Churches come together to worship God, sing praises to God, give thanks to God, study and learn about God, pray for our loved ones and those who are sick, as well as to hear God's Word proclaimed by one of His called.


Surely a church is no more sacred than the tabernacle. Indeed, it could be argued that a church it is far less sacred than the temple or tabernacle now that God indwells each believer.

I Kings 28-31 Then tidings came to Joab: for Joab had turned after Adonijah, though he turned not after Absalom. And Joab fled unto the tabernacle of the LORD, and caught hold on the horns of the altar. And it was told king Solomon that Joab was fled unto the tabernacle of the LORD; and, behold, he is by the altar. Then Solomon sent Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, saying, Go, fall upon him. And Benaiah came to the tabernacle of the LORD, and said unto him, Thus saith the king, Come forth. And he said, Nay; but I will die here. And Benaiah brought the king word again, saying, Thus said Joab, and thus he answered me. And the king said unto him, Do as he hath said, and fall upon him, and bury him; that thou mayest take away the innocent blood, which Joab shed, from me, and from the house of my father.

You see that Solomon had no scruples about killing a wicked man in the tabernacle when the situation called for it. Solomon was the wisest of the wise and remember that this was early in Solomons reign when his heart was still perfect before God too. There were also weapons stored in the temple which were later used to help set up one of the kings of Israel. I do indeed find it strange that you would find it acceptable for a Christian to defend himself from lawbreakers at home but not at church.

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He brings that up at every opportunity, he can't stand it that I've got a birth defect that puts quite a bit of pressure on my brain stem, its kind of a ongoing personal attack that has been taking place off and on for a couple of years.

It's not a personal attack, I just get tired of hearing how righteous you believe you are, when you yourself aren't living what you are preaching to others. Let me be blunt, it's called hypocrisy.


Sir,
Just so you know, you've just committed the tu quoque logical fallacy.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

He isn't even consistent in his own argument in this matter, on one hand he says you should be able to defend yourself or family(home), but that same doesn't apply in other places. Why does the place change the obligation and responsibility I have to my family?
It gets old listening to Jerry tell other how they lack in their walk with God, when he should worry about the beam in his own eye first. Matt 7:3-5

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It looks like you're saying here that trust should be placed in God for the outcome of the less risky things but not the things that are "...many more times more likely..." to happen. If that's not what you're saying' date=' I don't understand what relevance the degree of risk you've just identified has to do with anything. [/quote']
The other part of my post you quoted explains this, sir.

Could you provide the context for that quote, please? Thank you. :smile
In Christ,
Crushmaster.

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He isn't even consistent in his own argument in this matter, on one hand he says you should be able to defend yourself or family(home), but that same doesn't apply in other places. Why does the place change the obligation and responsibility I have to my family?
It gets old listening to Jerry tell other how they lack in their walk with God, when he should worry about the beam in his own eye first. Matt 7:3-5

Whether or not Brother Jerry is lacking in his walk or not, sir, does not excuse you if you are.
Tu Quoque (You Too): Dismissing someone?s viewpoints on an issue because he himself is inconsistent in that very thing.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

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The other part of my post you quoted explains this' date=' sir.[/quote']
Not to me, though I have read your post and tried to understand. I guess we're at an empasse if you're not willing to put it another way for my sake. There was no harm in asking, though! :smile

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Please keep in mind that a pastor and some members was recently "killed in church" by a person owning a gun. If someone in the church had a gun, it could have prevented it from happening. David did not come up against Goliath with his bare hands. He used a defensive weapon that he knew how to use. A sling was used to combat wolves, bears, lions from hurting his sheep. God gives us the same rights that he entrusted David with. I'm a concealed carry permit holder and I intend on using my weapon to combat the forces of evil.....just as God gave David.

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Please keep in mind that a pastor and some members was recently "killed in church" by a person owning a gun. If someone in the church had a gun' date=' it could have prevented it from happening. David did not come up against Goliath with his bare hands. He used a defensive weapon that he knew how to use. A sling was used to combat wolves, bears, lions from hurting his sheep. God gives us the same rights that he entrusted David with. I'm a concealed carry permit holder and I intend on using my weapon to combat the forces of evil.....just as God gave David.[/quote']

First of all, there is no comparison between a church today and David going into military combat with the enemy of his country.

Secondly (not sure which shooting you are referring to so I'll narrow to this one), as tragic as the murder of the pastor near St. Louis was, the Christians in that church and community gave (and continue to give) an excellent testimony that has received national attention. Had a shootout took place in the church that would have dominated the headlines. As it was, the godly life of the pastor and the grace of God working in the lives of the Christians there gained national attention.

God's ways are not our ways, His ways are far above ours.

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I'll agree to one point John.......God's ways are not our ways and His ways are far above ours. It's a shame that you had to narrow down to which account I was talking about. So.....I think you'll agree that there have been more "recent" attempts against the men of God and our Church. I also think you'll agree that many more attempts will come against us.......The Church !!!! Our country was founded on principles outlined in that KJV Bible. Our constitution was written with those same principles in mind. I think you'll also agree that the US has opened it's shores to every religion outside Christianity and many come against the name of Jesus Christ. David had no idea he was going into battle the day he faced Goliath. His brothers even told him to "get lost" as he wasn't of age to even fight in a battle. But he was carrying a weapon, and I thank God for my 2nd amendment right to bear arms. I don't know how much longer we'll have that right, but until then.....I plan on protecting what God has given me.

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I'll agree to one point John.......God's ways are not our ways and His ways are far above ours. It's a shame that you had to narrow down to which account I was talking about. So.....I think you'll agree that there have been more "recent" attempts against the men of God and our Church. I also think you'll agree that many more attempts will come against us.......The Church !!!! Our country was founded on principles outlined in that KJV Bible. Our constitution was written with those same principles in mind. I think you'll also agree that the US has opened it's shores to every religion outside Christianity and many come against the name of Jesus Christ. David had no idea he was going into battle the day he faced Goliath. His brothers even told him to "get lost" as he wasn't of age to even fight in a battle. But he was carrying a weapon' date=' and I thank God for my 2nd amendment right to bear arms. I don't know how much longer we'll have that right, but until then.....I plan on protecting what God has given me.[/quote']

Well, the shooting near St. Louis was only a few months ago and as tragic as it was it served God's purposes and glorified His Son just as the murder of Stephen and so many others have.

Not sure where you got the idea America was founded on principles outlined in the King James Bible. There were some biblical principles incorporated into some aspects of America's founding, but there were also many humanist principles too. Also, the KJB wasn't the only Bible in use in the colonies. The Geneva Bible was still very common and much in use during the 1600s and well into the 1700s.

True, when David first went to the battlefield his intention was not to fight the enemy. However, upon hearing Goliath speak ill of God and seeing no one willing to step forward, David did so. David had a sling, but apparently he had no ammunition since he had to stop and pick up five stones before facing Goliath.

There is nothing wrong with having a gun but church is not the place for guns. Read the book of Acts and the epistles and see how the early church dealt with other religions, governments and others attacking them.

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John, I wish we were in Heaven and the lion and the lamb were laying beside each other.....but, we're not there ....... YET !!! Our country has and is being invaded by those who attack our Christian values. Nehemiah, another one of God's elect, took charge and led the children of Israel to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem (THE HOLY CITY), that the opposition had torn down. They had to protect themselves, even in the process of the reconstruction. The KJB says that Nehemiah even fought with a sword in one hand while laying stones with the other. Now that's a sermon in itself. Laughed to scorn on many occasions, saying that the stones wouldn't even hold up a fox, should it run across it. Guess what......the walls are still standing. Please don't be so deceived that you don't think the same thing will happen here.....it already has. Our country is already invaded with the opposition and they'd like nothing more than to tear down our walls. We should protect ourselves and each other. Our church, the local assembly is a place of refuge, a place to come and worship and fellowship with those of like faith. If you want to worship in a place that has a sign on the door that says "NO CONCEALED WEAPONS", it's your choosing. I choose to worship in a place that supports my 2nd amendment rights, and to use those rights should the forces of evil come against it.

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Jesus needed a couple of swords in order to be numbered with the transgressors. Jesus didn't need a weapon. Clearly two swords would not have overthrown anyone that should attack them. The thieves and robbers were known to carry weapons in order to do their vile deeds. Jesus was simply making the prophecy in Isaiah a reality. He told his disciples that only two would be enough to convict him and number him among the transgressors. Peter was quick on the draw, but the Lord rebuked him. Clearly, violence is not encouraged by Jesus, however I do believe that Jesus wanted his disciples to protect themselves, they were clearly MEN, not pansies. However, neither did I read where Jesus told Peter to get rid of the sword. Jesus even made the statement earlier in the scriptures, to offer the other cheek, should someone smite you, but should they smite my other cheek, Jesus makes no comment as to what to do. So, I'll assume that I'm to defend myself (which I've had to do a time or two). Ecclesiates 3:1-8......there's a time for anything and everything. A time to kill, a time to heal, a time to speak and a time to be quiet, a time of war and a time of peace.

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A couple of disciples were "carrying" here Luke 22:36-38 Luke 22:49-51

Yes they were, but were they setting in a New Testament Church? Besides that take a very close look at what Jesus told Peter about living by the sword.

John, no need, you've mentioned Acts several times, they ignore New Testament principles, and revert to the Old Testament where they were under the law, it serves the purpose of their ways and of course Acts does not.

And now I'm being called self-righteous by the same one who keep going on about my disability, I pay it no mind, but consider such an attack a compliment.

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The disciples are the New Testament Church. And there bodies are the temple of God. The building you meet at in just brick' date=' wood and metal.[/quote']

Your right, and I know that very well.

The church building where the church meets is a consecrate place, set aside for worshiping the Lord thy God & His Son Jesus Christ. It ought to be treated with the utmost respect. No, its not just another building, but a very special building, & very special ground, if one will not treat it with respect, they probably will not show proper respect for the Father & the Son.

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