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For those of you who said you take a gun with you to church, would you mind stating why?????

Blossom


Many church shootings have happened in America, If some crazy person decides to start shooting up the pastor or the congregation then I will be a little better prepared than if I had nothing but my bare hands. There were weapons in the temple in the OT, and in times of need they were used as well.
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I think this is sad, quite honestly...a three-ring circus in the place set aside for worship of God--not political demonstrations, raffles, patriotic music, and lessons on gun safety. The job of the church is not to make political statements, but to bring people to Christ and edify the saints. I would have no problem with the above event if it were not church-sponsored or held on church grounds. I see nothing wrong with Christians as individuals participating in such an event; it sounds like fun, and it does emphasize an important truth. It just sends the wrong message to a world who is already confused about what churches are supposed to be doing. It is confusing at best, and inappropriate at worst.


So true. :goodpost:
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I think a security team of volunteers outside the building or at least outside the sanctuary would be OK. They would need to be properly trained to recognize potential problems and have some knowledge of greeting people who might pose a threat to the church. After the pastor's murder in Illinois I'm not adverse to a security team composed of the parking lot team or others if that was proposed at my church.

I would have to contrast Nehemiah with current events. We have received a warning that the enemy is bold and is predisposed to enter the gate. If he enters the gate I would prefer he has been relieved of any weapons to harm pastors or the church as they worship. Any are welcome to the service but, after profiling (wouldn't worry about political correctness) and determining there is some other pretense for coming to services someone is relieved of their weapon; I see no problem with them hearing the Gospel preached.

Nehemiah 4:7-18
7 But it came to pass, that when Sanballat, and Tobiah, and the Arabians, and the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites, heard that the walls of Jerusalem were made up, and that the breaches began to be stopped, then they were very wroth,
8 And conspired all of them together to come and to fight against Jerusalem, and to hinder it.
9 Nevertheless we made our prayer unto our God, and set a watch against them day and night, because of them.
10 And Judah said, The strength of the bearers of burdens is decayed, and there is much rubbish; so that we are not able to build the wall.
11 And our adversaries said, They shall not know, neither see, till we come in the midst among them, and slay them, and cause the work to cease.
12 And it came to pass, that when the Jews which dwelt by them came, they said unto us ten times, From all places whence ye shall return unto us they will be upon you.
13 Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows.
14 And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses.
15 And it came to pass, when our enemies heard that it was known unto us, and God had brought their counsel to nought, that we returned all of us to the wall, every one unto his work.
16 And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers were behind all the house of Judah.
17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.
18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me.


While I understand what you are trying to say, this example doesn't equate. In the case of Nehemiah this was a nation coming back to rebuild their capital and they were threatened by other nations.

Better to look at how the NT Christians dealt with such things. How did Christians in the New Testament deal with such matters? What did 1st century Christians do? What is the Bible example given to NT Christians?
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A person toting shooting irons going to church doesn't favor a meek, peaceful, harmless, godly person. Another example of Christians influence by this world and its perverse ways.

Back in my truck driving days I knew a few truck drivers who never left home without their shooting iron, but all of them were lost souls & very worldly, plus with their behavior and the places they would go, I'm speaking of drinking joints & such, I suppose they needed them. Me, never carried one, never needed one but of course I did not go to their hangouts.

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A person toting shooting irons going to church doesn't favor a meek, peaceful, harmless, godly person. Another example of Christians influence by this world and its perverse ways.

Back in my truck driving days I knew a few truck drivers who never left home without their shooting iron, but all of them were lost souls & very worldly, plus with their behavior and the places they would go, I'm speaking of drinking joints & such, I suppose they needed them. Me, never carried one, never needed one but of course I did not go to their hangouts.


Myself, I've never carried a gun as a weapon, only for hunting.

Were not the early Christians greatly persecuted? Were they not often beaten and robbed? Were their homes not violated? Were not many put to death? Does not the NT record their reactions for our edification?
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I would have no problem with someone taking a piece to church. I personally don't do it mostly because I don't own a handgun. I would prefer if maybe the ushers carried and not every member was packing or maybe the pastor had his iron in the pulpit. Larger churches could maybe hire a security team. Remember that lady that saved her church out there in Colorado when a man came in with a bunch of guns blazing. She was a memeber who also worked security and was hired to protect the church.

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Myself, I've never carried a gun as a weapon, only for hunting.

Were not the early Christians greatly persecuted? Were they not often beaten and robbed? Were their homes not violated? Were not many put to death? Does not the NT record their reactions for our edification?


Some of them were but many also protected themselves. As I mentioned before the Pilgrims went to church with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other.
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While I understand what you are trying to say, this example doesn't equate. In the case of Nehemiah this was a nation coming back to rebuild their capital and they were threatened by other nations.

Better to look at how the NT Christians dealt with such things. How did Christians in the New Testament deal with such matters? What did 1st century Christians do? What is the Bible example given to NT Christians?


Yes, I understand your thoughts. Many times Christ taught to turn the other cheek, pray for those who despitefully use you, and be meek and humble. Nehemiah was building the city of God which is the primary purpose of a pastor preaching the gospel.

Christ never discouraged the Apostles from carrying their weapons. He made Peter put away his sword but, Christ was about to fulfill His earthly ministry. A good study question might be why were the Apostles carrying their weapons? Was it to protect the shepherd, the shepherd's flock or, maybe both? Maybe they carried swords just to hunt rabbits :wink ?

If the pastor is concerned and organizes a security team to protect the services of our church I would not hesitate to volunteer. I don't like the possibility of some lunatic or terrorist threatening my church family or my own family but, we live within a perverse nation.
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Yes, I understand your thoughts. Many times Christ taught to turn the other cheek, pray for those who despitefully use you, and be meek and humble. Nehemiah was building the city of God which is the primary purpose of a pastor preaching the gospel.

Christ never discouraged the Apostles from carrying their weapons. He made Peter put away his sword but, Christ was about to fulfill His earthly ministry. A good study question might be why were the Apostles carrying their weapons? Was it to protect the shepherd, the shepherd's flock or, maybe both? Maybe they carried swords just to hunt rabbits :wink ?

If the pastor is concerned and organizes a security team to protect the services of our church I would not hesitate to volunteer. I don't like the possibility of some lunatic or terrorist threatening my church family or my own family but, we live within a perverse nation.


Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Why did Christ say they that take the sword shall perish by the sword.

Let me reword it just for clarification purpose only, all they that take the gun shall perish with the gun.

Seems to nearly say those who take their gun to church shall perish by their gun.
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Some of them were but many also protected themselves. As I mentioned before the Pilgrims went to church with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other.


The Pilgrims were only a few hundred years ago, by early church I'm referring to the church recorded in the New Testament as our example.
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Yes, I understand your thoughts. Many times Christ taught to turn the other cheek, pray for those who despitefully use you, and be meek and humble. Nehemiah was building the city of God which is the primary purpose of a pastor preaching the gospel.

Christ never discouraged the Apostles from carrying their weapons. He made Peter put away his sword but, Christ was about to fulfill His earthly ministry. A good study question might be why were the Apostles carrying their weapons? Was it to protect the shepherd, the shepherd's flock or, maybe both? Maybe they carried swords just to hunt rabbits :wink ?

If the pastor is concerned and organizes a security team to protect the services of our church I would not hesitate to volunteer. I don't like the possibility of some lunatic or terrorist threatening my church family or my own family but, we live within a perverse nation.


We have examples in the New Testament of Christians facing various forms of persecution, which included having their homes violated as well as their persons. The question we are to always as is what does the Word of God say? How did Christians in the New Testament deal with such matters? What did 1st century Christians do? What is the Bible example given to NT Christians?
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John,
One difference is that they were being persecuted by the government which has authority from God. That is different than an individual that is acting without authority and outside the law. If the government came to our churches and started arresting people I would not advocate a shootout, but that is a great deal different than stopping a crazy person threating or injuring people and committing a crime by the law of the land.


In response to Jerry, Mat 26:52 is speaking of trusting in "the sword" for deliverance as it would seem peter was. Scripture is clear that our trust should be in God not weapons as even the OT states. That does not preclude their use however. Peter was acting hastily and outside of Gods will. Jesus told him that if he had need "help" he could have called more than twelve legions of angels but scripture needed to be fulfilled in this case. In [bible]Luke 22:36[/bible] just before the passage you quote in Mat 26:52 Jesus says to his disciples if they didn't have a sword they should now sell their garment and buy one. I believe this is teaching that we should try to be prepared. A sword has no peaceful purpose, the only reason to have one is for attack or defense. From your point of view why did Jesus tell his disciples to sell their garment and buy a sword if it would never have a legitimate use?

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John,
One difference is that they were being persecuted by the government which has authority from God. That is different than an individual that is acting without authority and outside the law. If the government came to our churches and started arresting people I would not advocate a shootout, but that is a great deal different than stopping a crazy person threating or injuring people and committing a crime by the law of the land.


In response to Jerry, Mat 26:52 is speaking of trusting in "the sword" for deliverance as it would seem peter was. Scripture is clear that our trust should be in God not weapons as even the OT states. That does not preclude their use however. Peter was acting hastily and outside of Gods will. Jesus told him that if he had need "help" he could have called more than twelve legions of angels but scripture needed to be fulfilled in this case. In [bible]Luke 22:36[/bible] just before the passage you quote in Mat 26:52 Jesus says to his disciples if they didn't have a sword they should now sell their garment and buy one. I believe this is teaching that we should try to be prepared. A sword has no peaceful purpose, the only reason to have one is for attack or defense. From your point of view why did Jesus tell his disciples to sell their garment and buy a sword if it would never have a legitimate use?


Right, trust in God, Peter should have trusted in God and not have pulled the sword out and its quite clear, you live by the sword, you died by the sword, so why live by it?

Let me see, I will pray for God's protection for my trip to church and our church service, but just in case He might fail me I will take my shooting irons with me. Yes, that is really trusting God isn't it?

No. I would not have nothing to do with a church that is full of gun toting people, they just do not sound like meek, peaceful, and harmless people.

I feel quite sure if I went by worldly logic I would not disagree on having the church full of guns.

Lets see, if someone kills me all they will do is send me to heaven to be with my Father & Savior, that sounds like gain to me, actually its a win win situation for me, that is if I believe that I'm truly saved by Jesus Christ. But I will not rush out and kill myself, I'll leave it up to God, I know He will take care of me, if I trust Him, but he does ask for me to completely trust Him.

One more thing, I could not feel this way if I did not truly believe Jesus Christ to be my Savior and quite able to keep that which I trusted Him with.

And what better place to lose ones life than while one is in one of Jesus' Churches worshiping.
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Right, trust in God, Peter should have trusted in God and not have pulled the sword out and its quite clear, you live by the sword, you died by the sword, so why live by it?

Let me see, I will pray for God's protection for my trip to church and our church service, but just in case He might fail me I will take my shooting irons with me. Yes, that is really trusting God isn't it?

No. I would not have nothing to do with a church that is full of gun toting people, they just do not sound like meek, peaceful, and harmless people.

I feel quite sure if I went by worldly logic I would not disagree on having the church full of guns.

Lets see, if someone kills me all they will do is send me to heaven to be with my Father & Savior, that sounds like gain to me, actually its a win win situation for me, that is if I believe that I'm truly saved by Jesus Christ. But I will not rush out and kill myself, I'll leave it up to God, I know He will take care of me, if I trust Him, but he does ask for me to completely trust Him.

One more thing, I could not feel this way if I did not truly believe Jesus Christ to be my Savior and quite able to keep that which I trusted Him with.

And what better place to lose ones life than while one is in one of Jesus' Churches worshiping.

:goodpost::amen:
blossom
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