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Bring your guns to church


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Would Jesus carry a gun if he lived today? I do not believe so. Even if it his "right" under the Constitution. A a citizen of the US, we may have that right, but is it right to from a Christian viewpoint, to carry a gun, especially in a place of worship? What do we value more? The right to carry a gun, or a the teachings of Christ?


At least two of his disciples were carrying swords when they were with Jesus in the garden of Gethsamene. If Jesus had a problem with his disciples carrying swords I imagine he would have let them know before then. I don't claim to be Jesus, just a disciple.

What if a church posts a sign prohibiting a gun inside? I think all churches should do this, but that is my opinion.


If they had a sign posted to that effect I would respect that but I probably wouldn't attend either. That very fact that they were worried enough about it to post a sign would tell me that we probably would have significant doctrinal differences in more areas than just that one.

But to bring it to chruch and brag about it goes against the teachings of Jesus.


No one was bragging that I saw. I have carried to church(it is legal where I am) for years and only a few people at church know, mostly others that also carry. No reason for most members to ever know either unless someday it is needed.

SHould Christians really have an attitude of "I will do what I want because it is my right!" Is that waht we are called to be? I think not.


I carry because it is legal and because scripturally and for me I think it is within the will of God.

I simply do not want a civilian carrying a gun into a crowded place, and thinking they can save the day and try to stop a criminal in a crowded situation and kill an innocent bystander.


You do know that police officers are just as likely to hit an innocent bystander by the numbers right? Per shooting police actually hit innocent people more often than licensed carriers I believe although that could be attributed to the differences in the types of shootings each group is likely to face. The average police officer is not highly skilled with his gun unless he happens to be one of those that also shoots as a hobby. Police are somewhat skilled in defusing dangerous situations verbally or physically without using a gun, but if it actually comes to down to shooting skill the average police officer will generally be far behind a civilian that enjoys and practices shooting. It is a myth that police are experts with guns, the average officer does not practice much. Sure a few are experts, but they are no more common than shooting experts in the general population. There have been a number of occasions were someone with a concealed weapon has "saved the day" in a crowded place, and I can't think of any cases where they shot an innocent person by accident and made a bad situation worse. Could it happen? There is a small possibility it could, even soldiers get killed by "friendly fire" every once in a great while, but the odds are that someone shooting at the bad guy will be a benefit rather than a detriment. Many cases show this to be a fact.
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I totally agree, it is poor form to carry and brag. I never say when I'm carrying out of respect for the "nerves" of others.

Also, if there were a sign posted asking not to bring a gun into the church, I would certainly be sensitive to their request.

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I totally agree, it is poor form to carry and brag. I never say when I'm carrying out of respect for the "nerves" of others.

Also, if there were a sign posted asking not to bring a gun into the church, I would certainly be sensitive to their request.


I would certainly hope you would leave your gun in your car if a sign was posted, as private property owners have right to ban guns from their property.
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I would certainly hope you would leave your gun in your car if a sign was posted, as private property owners have right to ban guns from their property.


Sorry Charlie, I don't make it a habit of leaving any weapons in my car if I can help it and especially a hand gun. I would be more legally liable and culpable if I left my handgun in the car, out of my control and someone got a hold of it, etc........I'd either carry it and keep it under my control or I'd leave it in my home vault locked and secured. That is just my own practice, probably not a requirement under the law itself (states are all different).
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I am still dumbfounded as to why someone would want or feel a need to bring a gun to church. I am especially dumbfounded by the comment that you carry a gun because it is Scriptural and because God wants you to. Really? Where in the Bible does it tell us that God wants us packing weapons? I don't see that anywhere. I'm not saying that it is wrong to carry a gun. I'm just saying Scripture is silent on the issue, and to say God wants you carrying a gun as a private citizen is beyond what I can comprehend. I just don't understand it.

And why a church would want people carrying concealed weapons in its place of worship is beyond what I can comprehend. My state legislature just passed a ludicrous law permitting people to take guns to church unless a sign is posted outside the church building prohibiting it. That is almost as ludicrous as saying let's let people take guns to schools. My church will certainly post a sign prohibiting weapons to prevent people from lawfully bringing weapons into our place of worship.

We most certainly will not allow it at business meetings...that's asking for someone to get killed.

I don't understand why it is necessary for a Christian to own a gun unless that person is a hunter or law enforcement officer, much less Scriptural or "the will of God." God has never spoken to me in that way telling me to go buy guns and carry it around.

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I am still dumbfounded as to why someone would want or feel a need to bring a gun to church. I am especially dumbfounded by the comment that you carry a gun because it is Scriptural and because God wants you to. Really? Where in the Bible does it tell us that God wants us packing weapons? I don't see that anywhere. I'm not saying that it is wrong to carry a gun. I'm just saying Scripture is silent on the issue, and to say God wants you carrying a gun as a private citizen is beyond what I can comprehend. I just don't understand it.

And why a church would want people carrying concealed weapons in its place of worship is beyond what I can comprehend. My state legislature just passed a ludicrous law permitting people to take guns to church unless a sign is posted outside the church building prohibiting it. That is almost as ludicrous as saying let's let people take guns to schools. My church will certainly post a sign prohibiting weapons to prevent people from lawfully bringing weapons into our place of worship.

We most certainly will not allow it at business meetings...that's asking for someone to get killed.

I don't understand why it is necessary for a Christian to own a gun unless that person is a hunter or law enforcement officer, much less Scriptural or "the will of God." God has never spoken to me in that way telling me to go buy guns and carry it around.


As you didn't quote in your post the person and even though this post follows mine, I don't think you are asking me about God's will for carrying as I never said that, I believe there were others you may have said that. If you are looking for a response from me, I wouldn't be able to address other's views, only my own.
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The bill of rights is actually in existence thanks to Baptists who had been persecuted for their faith here in America prior to the War for Independence.

All 10 of the amendments were favored by the American people. The second amendment was put in as a guarantee of protection against tyrants, because as Thomas Jefferson said:

"For a people who are free and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security. It is, therefore, incumbent on us at every meeting [of Congress] to revise the condition of the militia and to ask ourselves if it is prepared to repel a powerful enemy at every point of our territories exposed to invasion... Congress alone have power to produce a uniform state of preparation in this great organ of defense. The interests which they so deeply feel in their own and their country's security will present this as among the most important objects of their deliberation."

Ah ha! People would say here that the militia is the military, so private citizens shouldn't have guns...but! George Mason (of revolutionary fame, not my hubby's uncle :Green ) said that the militia was the PEOPLE.

And, to further clarify, Thomas Jefferson said:
"None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important."
See? He wasn't talking about the military.
"I think the truth must now be obvious that our people are too happy at home to enter into regular service, and that we cannot be defended but by making every citizen a soldier, as the Greeks and Romans who had no standing armies; and that in doing this all must be marshaled, classed by their ages, and every service ascribed to its competent class." National Guard.... :Green


What is my point you ask?

The second amendment doesn't grant us the right to keep and bear arms. It guarantees that right. Where does that right come from? Well, Thomas Jefferson said that rights come from God. Hmmm - a man who I don't really believe was a Christian (his "Bible" ended with Christ's tomb being sealed...) who believes that rights come from God....

Anyway - the wording is specific. "Keep" means to own. "Bear" means to carry. The bill of rights was placed into the constitution to be absolutely specific so there were no questions about the rights of American citizens. And the Baptists of the time were in favor of them. Why do I mention that? Simply because those folks knew what persecution was. Obadiah Holmes was beaten with 30 stripes for preaching the gospel and daring to not believe in infant baptism (which was considered punishable by death by the congregational church [puritans]). My ggrandfather was jailed for a time for the same thing. And it really didn't get better for them (anywhere but Rhode Island which John Clark (who was jailed along with Obadiah Holmes and my ggrandgfather) finally was able to get a charter from the king for). Someone might say - see there, they didn't carry guns...well, they weren't guaranteed the rights we are under our constitution. They were still under British authority (this was in the 1650's).

"Keep" and "Bear." Own and carry. Guaranteed under the constitution that was forged by men who were seeking freedom...and by people who coupled political freedom with religious freedom.

An interesting read on Baptists and the second amendment:
http://www.sightlerpublications.com/Bap ... dment.html
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People who are armed do not favor peacemakers? That's rich!!! Check out the stats' date=' Jerry. Towns and cities who "allow" armed citizens have LESS crimes. And Christians are citizens here, regardless of what you or anyone else wants to say. Christians have a right to carry guns. I think this church is silly with what its doing, but Christians can carry guns.[/quote']


:goodpost: I am FOR bringing guns to church for protection. Btw, kindofblue - you bring Jesus up quite often in your posts. Kind of like WWJD? We are NOT Jesus/God. Think about it.


http://www.baptiststandard.com/1999/9_2 ... unman.html

In Christ ~

Molly
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Jesus set the ONLY example we are to follow.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Its quite clear what Jesus said about the sword or gun, they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. That is in no way upholding you to carry a gun to church nor anywhere else.

And of all things, the lack of respect, people who claim they are Christians saying they would wear their gun concealed handgun into a church that has a sign that says no concealed weapons allowed. Yes, that is being real Christ like isn't it?

Its completely amazing at the lack of faith and trust we Christians have in God. By the way, if we say we have faith yet we don't prove our faith by the way we live and choices we make, all that does is prove our lack of faith.

Someone seems to think I said Christians did not have the right to carry a gun. I never said that. The Christians has lots of rights, they have the liberty to follow Christ or not follow Christ, they make choices each and every day, but each of these choices really decides if your really going to walk with God or not.

By the way, if you had no other choice but to follow Jesus, you could have no liberty, but yet liberty does not give you a license to sin.

Just for added thought, anyone in Arkansas who carry's a canceled handgun into a church is breaking the law, that surely would be a poor example of following Christ if anyone carried their concealed handgun to church in the state of Arkansas.

http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=30364&sec=41&con=4

I'm not going to debate this topic, its useless, enough has already been said. If you want to live by the gun, go for it, its your choice.

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I am still dumbfounded as to why someone would want or feel a need to bring a gun to church. I am especially dumbfounded by the comment that you carry a gun because it is Scriptural and because God wants you to. Really? Where in the Bible does it tell us that God wants us packing weapons? I don't see that anywhere. I'm not saying that it is wrong to carry a gun. I'm just saying Scripture is silent on the issue, and to say God wants you carrying a gun as a private citizen is beyond what I can comprehend. I just don't understand it.

And why a church would want people carrying concealed weapons in its place of worship is beyond what I can comprehend. My state legislature just passed a ludicrous law permitting people to take guns to church unless a sign is posted outside the church building prohibiting it. That is almost as ludicrous as saying let's let people take guns to schools. My church will certainly post a sign prohibiting weapons to prevent people from lawfully bringing weapons into our place of worship.

We most certainly will not allow it at business meetings...that's asking for someone to get killed.

I don't understand why it is necessary for a Christian to own a gun unless that person is a hunter or law enforcement officer, much less Scriptural or "the will of God." God has never spoken to me in that way telling me to go buy guns and carry it around.


There was recently (within a year or so) a armed woman who killed a man who started shooting up a church. Crazies like religion and politics. Any large gathering of people (including church... ours has 2000 people each weekend) I attend I think its important to be prepared. God cares about the innocent, and to be unable to defend innocence is thwarting our responsibility IMO.

FWIW, I think its foolish to make schools "gun free zones." Why are so many mass shootings in schools??? How many mass gunmen bent to kill some people see that sign and say, "yea, I can't bring guns here. I better just go home." No, it's more like "Noone will be fighting back."
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Yes, its foolish to be unprepared, in fact there be few that are prepared, for many will enter in at the wide gat to destruction. few there be who will enter in the strait gate that leads to life.

"Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?"

Mark 4:40 (KJV)

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

Romans 1:17 (KJV)

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."

1 Cor 2:5 (KJV)

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Heb 11:1 (KJV)

"He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;"

Romans 4:20 (KJV)

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."

1 Cor 2:5 (KJV)

"(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)"

2 Cor 5:7 (KJV)

How many of us stagger when it comes to faith, that is we just cannot gather up enough faith to truly trust God with our whole life all of the time, that is we have to help God to protect us, even while we set in Jesus Church worshiping Him.

As for the Lutheran Church, judge it against a New Testament Church described in the Bible and you will find that it does not resembles what a true New Testament Church that Jesus Christ is the head of. Remember, for a church to be one of Jesus' churches it has to aide by the rules He set up, hint, there be few true New Testament Churches and many false New Testaments Churches.

We prove faith by living by faith, Romans 1:17, saying we have faith, but yet we show no faith in God by the way we live proves a lack of faith. Its so easy to say I have faith but so hard to live that faith if its not present within us.

"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."

2 John 1:6 (KJV)

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

1 John 5:3-4 (KJV)

Yes, I know, you may think I'm foolish to live by faith alone and speak of so much faith, you may even think I'm foolish by saying all churches are not true churches, it was the same way in the days of the early church, the unbeliever thought it was so silly for the believers to live by faith, abide by all of Jesus' commandments, and spent time worshiping Him.

Its impossible to have that victory, to overcone the world, to live by godly wisdom, if one does not have the faith to walk in all the ways of Jesus.

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
Heb 11:6 (KJV)

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I think it's interesting that people keep bringing up the fact that Jesus told Peter to put away his sword, and that's reason enough not to have a gun (in church). Yet, Jesus is the one who told the disciples before this to get swords. Now, why would He say that if He didn't want them to have them?

And no-one here is advocating "living by the gun." Self-protection is not unscriptural.

There are a lot of things that are done differently in our country, under a republican (used to be) form of government than under the Roman empire of the NT period. I guess since Jesus and Paul lived under an emporer, we should want that, too.

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I've got to respond to this. Yes I bring up Jesus often. Why? His teaching and example are the standards we are to strive to live by. Failing to strive to live up to his example is a failure to be a follower of Christ. So I bring up Jesus often, and unashamedly so.

I believe he meant it literally when he taught the rich young ruler to give up his posessions, give to the poor and follow Jesus. The early chruch understood this, selling all that they had and giving for the betterment fo the church and to those in need. We need to strive to live up to that. I find this command the most difficult in our materialistic world, and it is hard to follow, but we must try to do so.

I beleive he meant it literally to turn to the other cheek when our enemies strike and to pray for our enemies and love them. Jesus, by his own example, did not defend himself when beaten and crucified. In fact, he rebuked Peter for trying to defend him with a sword. We are to follow that example. Is it hard? Absolutely because it is our natural desire to defend ourselves. But that is the standard we are to strive for.

I can go on and on, but my point is, failing to try to follow the teaching so Christ is failure to be a follower of Christ. Jesus said go, make disciples, baptize them, and teach them to obey ALL that I commanded you. I believe that literally as well.

The teachings of Chrsit go against culture saying to defend ourselves, to protect our rights, etc.

I'm just raising a point here. Is it following the teachings of Chist to bring guns to church, even if in the name of self defense?

On a different note, I still think it is absolutely foolish to allow guns in places of worship. A church should enact such security measures that it believes is necessary. However, an individuals should not take it upon themselves to carry a gun for the protection of the entire congregation. Church is a community, and security should be handled by the community, in the manner the community designates. If all acted as individuals, and several people pulled guns to protect people, that is a recipie for disaster.
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