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Have you ever heard of 'the law and the prophets'? Have you ever heard of the 'age of grace'? Have you ever heard of the kingdom to come?

All different ages and/or dispenstations.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1:17

So there are two of them right there in that verse.

Supporting that is this:

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16



Mt 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

There is a third. The others are speculation but are probably also true also. We will see. Edited by Calypsis4

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The study of prophecy can have many blessings associated with it. Just be careful you don't get caught up in minor details of it like whether or not there will be a "permanent solar eclipse." Though these things may be interesting they really don't edify IMO.

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We are caled to preach the gospel, not to engage in endless speculations about the future, which are no different than fortune tellers.


Really?

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Matthew 24:42-44

I believe I will take Jesus counsel on this matter.

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Paul wrote regarding the Old Covenant Scriptures (OT):
2 Tim. 3:
16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished u
nt
o all good works.

Note the purpose & result of that study. Certainly there are plenty of warnings about the future, but the specifics of futurism are read into Scripture. Beware of anyone who uses the so-called "Scofield Bible." Much of dispensational teaching comes from Scofield who popularised the teachings of Darby. Scofield was worse than an infidel - his wife divorced him for abandoning her & their children.


1 Tim. 5:8
if any provide n
ot
for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.


Scofield became the standard study Bible issued to Bible college students through the 20th C, & so dispensational teaching became the standard fundamentalist doctrine.



You really have become a bore. You know that?

Not that it will matter to you but Scofield's wife was a rich, liberated Roman Catholic who split from Cyrus before his conversion, though the actually divorce didn't take place until around four years after his conversion. Apparently his wife did not want to be reconciled to Scofield nor wanted him to have anything to do with his kids. Despite the fact that she filed on him for abandonment doesn't mean anything. My step-dad filed on my mother claiming that he was unable to locate her whereabouts when he knew exactly where she lived (he dropped her off there when he abandoned her). The courts really don't care what the reasons are or who was right or wrong. I had a lawyer tell me this personally. I'm sure it wasn't much different back then and the fact the his wife Leontine worked with him at his law practice she was probably aware of these things.

Maybe if he just had her burned at the stake then we we wouldn't be having this discussion if you get my drift? Or maybe you can cut C.I. a little slack concerning his personal life like people have with the Calvin (aka the Protestant Pope) for hundreds of years.

Didn't your jolly 'ol Church of England come into existence out of one man's continual necessity for divorce? Edited by Wilchbla

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We are caled to preach the gospel, not to engage in endless speculations about the future, which are no different than fortune tellers.


Wrong. We are to declare the whole counsel of God. Nice try with the pious attempt at deflection though.

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I concur. Preaching the gospel is very important but preaching the whole counsel of God's Word is even more important.


I concur. Preaching the gospel is very important but preaching the whole counsel of God's Word is even more important.


Fortune telling is not part of the whole counsel of God.

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Fortune telling is not part of the whole counsel of God.


Excuse me, but who are you? And where do you get the notion that reading and believing scripture prophecy is fortune telling?

For 24 yrs I've been in a ministry that counsels people involved indivination including fortune telling and cast out many a devil from those who got involved in such dark practices but never from a fundamental Baptist who just believes what the Bible says about the future.

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Excuse me, but who are you? And where do you get the notion that reading and believing scripture prophecy is fortune telling?

For 24 yrs I've been in a ministry that counsels people involved indivination including fortune telling and cast out many a devil from those who got involved in such dark practices but never from a fundamental Baptist who just believes what the Bible says about the future.

I believe he's referring to those who put forth grand theories about how the end times will be without actual biblical basis.

I was born again in 1981 so most of the first books I read with regards to the end times were written in the 70s. Those books were filled with all sorts of speculation put forth as fact; such as only the Soviet Union could fulfill certain prophecies, that East Germany was mentioned in Scripture as being allied with the Soviet Union, that the Chinese would invade with a huge ancient style army because they are so technologically behind, etc.

There is nothing wrong with discussing, preaching and expounding upon the Word of God with relation to biblical prophecy, but putting forth theories and speculations as fact isn't sound practice.

I've encountered several folks over the years who dismiss the Bible today because of all the sensational books and sermons on biblical prophecy they heard years ago that have all been proven false.

We need to stick to what the Bible actually says and not invent theories to give us details Scripture doesn't provide and put them forth as fact.

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I believe he's referring to those who put forth grand theories about how the end times will be without actual biblical basis.

I was born again in 1981 so most of the first books I read with regards to the end times were written in the 70s. Those books were filled with all sorts of speculation put forth as fact; such as only the Soviet Union could fulfill certain prophecies, that East Germany was mentioned in Scripture as being allied with the Soviet Union, that the Chinese would invade with a huge ancient style army because they are so technologically behind, etc.

There is nothing wrong with discussing, preaching and expounding upon the Word of God with relation to biblical prophecy, but putting forth theories and speculations as fact isn't sound practice.

I've encountered several folks over the years who dismiss the Bible today because of all the sensational books and sermons on biblical prophecy they heard years ago that have all been proven false.

We need to stick to what the Bible actually says and not invent theories to give us details Scripture doesn't provide and put them forth as fact.


Thanks but I think I'll let him answer for himself.

Best wishes.

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Thanks but I think I'll let him answer for himself.

Best wishes.

That's good, I wasn't attempting to answer for him, just wanting to point out one of the many problems with some when it comes to biblical prophecy.

We had an elderly man in our church for over a quarter century. He became heavily centered upon prophecy study and all things prophecy. It became so bad the Sunday school he used to lead for older folks was disbanded because of so many people leaving. Over the past couple of years he would argue and argue with our pastors and prophecy and how they should spend so much time on prophecy and how he felt they should do it.

Eventually, earlier this year, the man took his wife and left our church for a Charismatic church that is heavy on prophecy. Like many others, this man became so overfocused upon prophecy and the man-made theories that are too often connected to them, that he came to care about nothing else.

Unfortunately, I've seen a few others leave solid churches for Charismatic ones that were prophecy centered.

That's not to say I don't think biblical prophecy should be read, studied, preached and taught. I was actually born again after hearing a sermon based upon Revelation (that was the first time I ever heard of the end-times or Christ returning and the first time I ever heard the Gospel of salvation).

I apologize if you feel I intruded here.

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That's good, I wasn't attempting to answer for him, just wanting to point out one of the many problems with some when it comes to biblical prophecy.

We had an elderly man in our church for over a quarter century. He became heavily centered upon prophecy study and all things prophecy. It became so bad the Sunday school he used to lead for older folks was disbanded because of so many people leaving. Over the past couple of years he would argue and argue with our pastors and prophecy and how they should spend so much time on prophecy and how he felt they should do it.

Eventually, earlier this year, the man took his wife and left our church for a Charismatic church that is heavy on prophecy. Like many others, this man became so overfocused upon prophecy and the man-made theories that are too often connected to them, that he came to care about nothing else.

Unfortunately, I've seen a few others leave solid churches for Charismatic ones that were prophecy centered.

That's not to say I don't think biblical prophecy should be read, studied, preached and taught. I was actually born again after hearing a sermon based upon Revelation (that was the first time I ever heard of the end-times or Christ returning and the first time I ever heard the Gospel of salvation).

I apologize if you feel I intruded here.


That's O.k. don't worry about it. I was just taken back by his charge of fortune telling and just how he thinks that applies to those who look forward to Jesus 2nd coming. Never heard that kind of charge before.

Have a nice evening.

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That's O.k. don't worry about it. I was just taken back by his charge of fortune telling and just how he thinks that applies to those who look forward to Jesus 2nd coming. Never heard that kind of charge before.

Have a nice evening.


John was correct, I meant that much of what passes for explanations of prophecy today is no different from fortune telling. We here some one say, "This will happen and that will happen, and then something else will happen," This theory will be accepted until someone comes along and says something else will happen, then that theory will be accepted. It seems that if you teach pre tribulation rapture you can make the most bizare additions and you won't get any criticism, such as some on here and also I read Mcgrath on the prophecies, and as well as many other weird prophecies, he said that Revelation says there will be no more sea, and he was looking forward to the time he could park his car in the Pacific Ocean. But if you reject this teaching which was a novel teaching in the USA about a century or so ago. Philip mauro, writing in 1923 says that he had previously accepted this theory and looked down on those who rejected this new teaching. Where did this new teaching come from? Rome, via Irving's charismatic movement then Darby and his Plymouth Brethren. Irving, who was one of the first to teach this, was soon after excommunicated for heresy due to his teaching on Christ's humanity. If you teach the weirdest of theories as long as you accept the basic teaching, you don't get much stck, but if you present scriptures which challenge the teaching, you are called a false teacher.

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1. I have not yet stated my position on the rapture. 2. Like millions of Christians I am merely looking forward to His immanent, any-moment return. 3. I don't set dates because Jesus said not to. 4. I have never read Darby on the rapture. 5. You might do well to view Chuck Missler on this matter for his documentation of the rapture teaching from the early church is the best I have ever seen. 6. You lost your credibility with me on this issue when you said, " If you teach the weirdest of theories as long as you accept the basic teaching, you don't get much stck, but if you present scriptures which challenge the teaching, you are called a false teacher." Because you said that without having read my position on the issue. The fact is that you did not know if I was pre- post-, mid, or pre-wrath (Rosenthal) I did not say if I was pre-mill, post-mill, or a-millenial in my eschatology. 7. In the end you are going to eat your words on the matter because your position is flat wrong and contrary to God's Word. 8. If you are referring to the pre-trib expectation of Christ that millions of faithful Christians are looking forward to in your statement: "I meant that much of what passes for explanations of prophecy today is no different from fortune telling" then you are in deep trouble, whoever you are. "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Luke 21:36 compared with "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." I Thess. 5:2-3. By analogy, a thief comes quietly in the night, takes what he wants, and leaves without having been detected until later. So will it be at the coming of Christ for His people...just before He pours out His wrath on the earth. Then will be the time of Jacob's trouble, not the church; for the bride of Christ will be in heaven with Jesus.

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Anyone who identifies the mark in advance is speculating, particularly if they invoke high tech. A red hot brand-mark or nitrogen freeze-mark would be sufficient, cheap & visible without technology. Branding was use in Bible times.


Likewise, the number of the beast can be used to calculate "Nero Caesar."


John was companion in tribulation to his readers. That is NOT to say "all prophecy has been fulfilled." We are warned that believers will suffer tribulation, but to take encouragement from Jesus' victory over the world.

These things I have spoken u
nt
o you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

That is not referring to the great tribulation of Mat. 24 & Rev. 7. Rev. 7 refers to believers. Mat. 24 refers to the tribulation suffered by Jerusalem prior to its destruction - tribulation suffered by this generation who rejected him & every Gospel entreaty..


Notice the tribulations of 2 Thes. 1
Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

Believers suffer tribulation at the hands of the ungodly, while unbelievers suffer tribulation from God:


Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know n
ot
God, and that
ob
ey n
ot
the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his sai
nt
s, and to be admired in all them that believe...



The tribulations Paul refers to are persecution of believers, & damnation of unbelievers. Not 3½ nor 7 years. Our tribulation ends at Jesus' return or our death, but the tribulation of the wicked is everlasting destruction.


We need to look at the principles of Scripture - general advice & warnings while we live. The mark of the beast for the converted Muslim is the declaration concerning Allah & Mohammed, just as in Roman times "Caesar is lord." Edited by Covenanter

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Here's something to consider. Ever wonder where our technology comes from?

  1. Is it from God?
  2. Or the devil?

Think about it. For thousands of years the world was what we would regard as "primitive" yet in the last 100 yrs we have advanced more than ever before in known history. And not for the lack of intelligent men who were before there time when it came to progressive thinking. Yet they were unable to do anything about it. Was this because certain laws were in place that stopped advancement and the discovery of "natural" laws that were only "discovered" recently? Batteries have been found from pre dark ages societies.

God changed the languages of men for building a tower, yet now the scientific community speaks a common language and shares knowledge and discoveries to build more than mere towers!

Is this tech that the world strives so hard to develop and advance nothing but a cheap imitation of the natural ability of God's people in the time to come?
Is it nothing more than the devil trying to imitate what he no longer has through man - he is after all the prince of this earth and most (especially the "kingdom now" pushers) tend to ignore this.

God knows His own - we are told this in His Word many times. I believe His children will also know there brothers and sisters. Is the mark not a cheap imitation of this ability for the devil and his followers to know there own? In the arms industry and many other corporate entities there are already bio chips for identification, even in my 3rd world country, so how much more in your advanced countries?

They are searching for the god particle as we speak, the particle that they believe to be the creator of everything. What happens when they find it? How many will turn from God to science, the new god?

We know that a prophets assistants eyes were opened so that he could see the host of angels that protected him. We know that Paul speaks of differing levels of heaven. The bible alludes to many mysteries that are subjects of science fiction books today - time travel; quantum physics; other dimensions, etc,etc.

Don't ignore the weapons of the devil just because we tend to think the bible is from the stone age. God is the author and creator of everything and anything the devil imitates is a poor substitute and nothing more.

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Anyone who identifies the mark in advance is speculating, particularly if they invoke high tech. A red hot brand-mark or nitrogen freeze-mark would be sufficient, cheap & visible without technology. Branding was use in Bible times.


Likewise, the number of the beast can be used to calculate "Nero Caesar."


John was companion in tribulation to his readers. That is NOT to say "all prophecy has been fulfilled." We are warned that believers will suffer tribulation, but to take encouragement from Jesus' victory over the world.

These things I have spoken u
nt
o you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

That is not referring to the great tribulation of Mat. 24 & Rev. 7. Rev. 7 refers to believers. Mat. 24 refers to the tribulation suffered by Jerusalem prior to its destruction - tribulation suffered by this generation who rejected him & every Gospel entreaty..


Notice the tribulations of 2 Thes. 1

Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

Believers suffer tribulation at the hands of the ungodly, while unbelievers suffer tribulation from God:



Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know n
ot
God, and that
ob
ey n
ot
the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his sai
nt
s, and to be admired in all them that believe...



The tribulations Paul refers to are persecution of believers, & damnation of unbelievers. Not 3½ nor 7 years. Our tribulation ends at Jesus' return or our death, but the tribulation of the wicked is everlasting destruction.


We need to look at the principles of Scripture - general advice & warnings while we live. The mark of the beast for the converted Muslim is the declaration concerning Allah & Mohammed, just as in Roman times "Caesar is lord."


You position is in error but I am not going to belabor the point. You are a very confused individual,.

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1. I have not yet stated my position on the rapture. 2. Like millions of Christians I am merely looking forward to His immanent, any-moment return. 3. I don't set dates because Jesus said not to. 4. I have never read Darby on the rapture. 5. You might do well to view Chuck Missler on this matter for his documentation of the rapture teaching from the early church is the best I have ever seen. 6. You lost your credibility with me on this issue when you said, " If you teach the weirdest of theories as long as you accept the basic teaching, you don't get much stck, but if you present scriptures which challenge the teaching, you are called a false teacher." Because you said that without having read my position on the issue. The fact is that you did not know if I was pre- post-, mid, or pre-wrath (Rosenthal) I did not say if I was pre-mill, post-mill, or a-millenial in my eschatology. 7. In the end you are going to eat your words on the matter because your position is flat wrong and contrary to God's Word. 8. If you are referring to the pre-trib expectation of Christ that millions of faithful Christians are looking forward to in your statement: "I meant that much of what passes for explanations of prophecy today is no different from fortune telling" then you are in deep trouble, whoever you are. "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Luke 21:36 compared with "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." I Thess. 5:2-3. By analogy, a thief comes quietly in the night, takes what he wants, and leaves without having been detected until later. So will it be at the coming of Christ for His people...just before He pours out His wrath on the earth. Then will be the time of Jacob's trouble, not the church; for the bride of Christ will be in heaven with Jesus.

I am sorry when I say 'you' I should have said 'one' When one challenges the teaching, one is called a false teacher. I know somew have tried to find historical precedents but they fail as it is not what the scriptiure teaches, If you look at the posts on here that support that teaching, you will find that they subtly change the scripture. For instance Dan 9: 26 After threescore and two weeks is changed to "at the end of threescore and two weeks" A subtle but false change. Likewise. 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. has been changed to say that the Lord will come to the air, a subtle but false change. If somone is coming to me and I beet him at the station or the airport, no-one says they are only coming to the station/airport and taking me with them.
9 And these things having said — they beholding — he was taken up, and a cloud did receive him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in his going on, then, lo, two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said, ‘Men, Galileans, why do ye stand gazing into the heaven? this Jesus who was received up from you into the heaven, shall so come in what manner ye saw him going on to the heaven.’

When I pointed out that the scripture said He was coming the same way He went, I was called a false teacher.

A year or two ago, we had a Brethren preacher at our church (if you have read any of my posts on the matter you will see that this group was the deevelopers of this doctrine. I was in the Brethren for many years and heard a lot of this teaching) Anyway this preacher said that in Acts 1:11,b the angels were speaking to Jews and that he was coming to Jews and not Christians. After the service I asked him where christians would be and he said "in heaven." I then said where would the disciples be? And he said "in heaven." I replied that the disciples were Jews so how could they be in heaven ? He answered that the disciples wer christians, but at that point he turned on his heels and shouted "You don't believe the scriptures. " I would like to remark at this point that there is no indication in the text that Jesus is coming only to the Jews. I would have asked him another question. "In 1 Thess 4:17, we read that we will meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. How can we be ever with the Lord if we are in heaven and He is on earth with the Jews? but I didn't get the chance. Our church constitution says we must not have a preacher who teaches strange doctrines. I did report this to our elders but did not get an answer, no doubt as one was a son of the preacher, and another was from a Brethren background.

I would close this post with a comment that the above preacher went against Brethren teaching that I have heartd before and that is Jesus is coming for his saints (in the air) and with his saints (the secoind coming). Needless to say there is not a hint of this in the scripture. Edited by Invicta

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I am sorry when I say 'you' I should have said 'one' When one challenges the teaching, one is called a false teacher. I know somew have tried to find historical precedents but they fail as it is not what the scriptiure teaches, If you look at the posts on here that support that teaching, you will find that they subtly change the scripture. For instance Dan 9: 26 After threescore and two weeks is changed to "at the end of threescore and two weeks" A subtle but false change. Likewise. 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. has been changed to say that the Lord will come to the air, a subtle but false change. If somone is coming to me and I beet him at the station or the airport, no-one says they are only coming to the station/airport and taking me with them.
9 And these things having said — they beholding — he was taken up, and a cloud did receive him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in his going on, then, lo, two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said, ‘Men, Galileans, why do ye stand gazing into the heaven? this Jesus who was received up from you into the heaven, shall so come in what manner ye saw him going on to the heaven.’

When I pointed out that the scripture said He was coming the same way He went, I was called a false teacher.

A year or two ago, we had a Brethren preacher at our church (if you have read any of my posts on the matter you will see that this group was the deevelopers of this doctrine. I was in the Brethren for many years and heard a lot of this teaching) Anyway this preacher said that in Acts 1:11,b the angels were speaking to Jews and that he was coming to Jews and not Christians. After the service I asked him where christians would be and he said "in heaven." I then said where would the disciples be? And he said "in heaven." I replied that the disciples were Jews so how could they be in heaven ? He answered that the disciples wer christians, but at that point he turned on his heels and shouted "You don't believe the scriptures. " I would like to remark at this point that there is no indication in the text that Jesus is coming only to the Jews. I would have asked him another question. "In 1 Thess 4:17, we read that we will meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. How can we be ever with the Lord if we are in heaven and He is on earth with the Jews? but I didn't get the chance. Our church constitution says we must not have a preacher who teaches strange doctrines. I did report this to our elders but did not get an answer, no doubt as one was a son of the preacher, and another was from a Brethren background.

I would close this post with a comment that the above preacher went against Brethren teaching that I have heartd before and that is Jesus is coming for his saints (in the air) and with his saints (the secoind coming). Needless to say there is not a hint of this in the scripture.


You said,"How can we be ever with the Lord if we are in heaven and He is on earth with the Jews? "

This reveals the depth of your confusion. Jesus Christ is omnipresent...just like the Father. He can appear in one place and still be in all other locations at the same time. No problem for HIm.

Proof:

John 3:13, Jesus said, 'And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.'

Let me suggest that you stop posting and begin reading through the scriptures as it relates to prophecy for you are far afield from understanding what is said concerning the future. And in that study you need to make careful comparisons using a concordance and perhaps a Vines Dictionary or Strong's. Forget about commentaries or books on the issue and just go by the Bible alone.

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Excuse me, but who are you? And where do you get the notion that reading and believing scripture prophecy is fortune telling?

For 24 yrs I've been in a ministry that counsels people involved indivination including fortune telling and cast out many a devil from those who got involved in such dark practices but never from a fundamental Baptist who just believes what the Bible says about the future.


Hi,

This is a genuine question.

Is water divination occultic? At school we were told that water diviners used hazel sticks to divine water.

I have not come across it before, but when a we had a problem with our water supply, the man from the water company used divining to trace where our water pipes were. He used two bent welding rods and seemed to get it right each time. Is that occultic, or if not how does it work?

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Comments in blue:

.....
If you are referring to the pre-trib expectation of Christ that millions of faithful Christians are looking forward to ALL faithful Christians are looking forward to Christ's return. Your assertion about millions does not prove that doctrine in your statement: "I meant that much of what passes for explanations of prophecy today is no different from fortune telling" then you are in deep trouble, whoever you are.
I think Invicta means the highly detailed prophecy interpretations, such as Hal Lindsey's & Tim & Jerry's "Left Behind" series.

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Luke 21:36 compared with "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." I Thess. 5:2-3. By analogy, a thief comes quietly in the night, takes what he wants, and leaves without having been detected until later. So will it be at the coming of Christ for His people...just before He pours out His wrath on the earth. Then will be the time of Jacob's trouble, not the church; for the bride of Christ will be in heaven with Jesus.

Your errors include:
1. to interpret Scripture according to dispensational theory - future tribulation, when Jesus is prophesying the tribulation of the AD 70 destruction;
2. to impose OT prophecy onto future end times - Jacob's trouble is not defined by Jeremiah, but the natural understanding is the deliverance of the Jews in the time of Esther;
3. to confuse the great tribulation of AD 70 with the tribulation of hell when Jesus returns for judgement to execute the wrath of God on the wicked. (2 Thes. 1.)
4. to confuse the resurrection when Jesus returns with "rapture" teaching followed by a complex scenario.

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Hi,

This is a genuine question.

Is water divination occultic? At school we were told that water diviners used hazel sticks to divine water.

I have not come across it before, but when a we had a problem with our water supply, the man from the water company used divining to trace where our water pipes were. He used two bent welding rods and seemed to get it right each time. Is that occultic, or if not how does it work?


Ask the water diviner about his dream life.

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Comments in blue:

Your errors include:
1. to interpret Scripture according to dispensational theory - future tribulation, when Jesus is prophesying the tribulation of the AD 70 destruction;
2. to impose OT prophecy onto future end times - Jacob's trouble is not defined by Jeremiah, but the natural understanding is the deliverance of the Jews in the time of Esther;
3. to confuse the great tribulation of AD 70 with the tribulation of hell when Jesus returns for judgement to execute the wrath of God on the wicked. (2 Thes. 1.)
4. to confuse the resurrection when Jesus returns with "rapture" teaching followed by a complex scenario.


There were no errors. There was no 'great tribulation' in A.D. 70. John described it over 20 years later when he wrote the book of Revelation. Your sense of timing is terrible.

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