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PreacherBen

Bill Gaither and the Southern Gospel Crowd

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From a former Satan-worshiper:


Whenever I hear rock music, whether it's supposedly Christian or not, my reaction is extreme. I can't handle the music. I don't care what the words say. As soon as I hear the beat, it takes me back to those services where we called the enemy to empower us to do great evil. I am grieved about "Christian rock" music. I can't believe Christians accept these things...

I have to believe they are sincere, but I do not believe they really understand what they're opening themselves up to and the invitation they are giving the enemy to their lives.



The testimony is of a twenty-year-old man, verified by Dr. Jim Logan
International Center for Biblical Counseling
1551 Indian Hills Drive, Suite 200
Sioux City, IA 51104

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From a former Satan-worshiper:




The testimony is of a twenty-year-old man, verified by Dr. Jim Logan
International Center for Biblical Counseling
1551 Indian Hills Drive, Suite 200
Sioux City, IA 51104


From a former pagan: I've never heard anything like that from any pagan, witch, satanist, or Ex-Pagan, ex-witch, or ex-satanist.

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Well Will, now you have. :)

And he has a whole article on it if that would help. I just posted the excerpts.



PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject:
Kevin, you are trying to say that those young people that listen to CCM are in rebellion. Some of the most hardcore Christian youth I know, the ones that love God with all their heart and interested in serving Him with their life listen to CCM and Southern Gospel. On the other hand, I know very few that were raised on conservative music only that are interested in serving the Lord. A lot of the youth in the church here have a passion for the Lord like I have never seen in youth before, and a lot of them listen to Southern Gospel and some CCM.

Katy-Anne


Do you think Satan, the angel of music, would make it so obvious that it was wrong music? No, he is the master of deceit and uses music to gradually gain ground and control in a person's life.

By the way, I have not seen a Christian who has listened to CCM long term on fire for God, rather, I have seen my best friend destroyed by it.

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Well Will, now you have. :)

And he has a whole article on it if that would help. I just posted the excerpts.




Do you think Satan, the angel of music, would make it so obvious that it was wrong music? No, he is the master of deceit and uses music to gradually gain ground and control in a person's life.

By the way, I have not seen a Christian who has listened to CCM long term on fire for God, rather, I have seen my best friend destroyed by it.


I don't know many Satanists who use music in their rituals. Of course, he may have been an eclectic Satanist. *shrugs* I tend to be very suspicious of anybody who claims to have been a former Satanist and makes claims like this as if they're speaking for all Satanists, or even for the majority.

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Well Will, now you have. :)

And he has a whole article on it if that would help. I just posted the excerpts.




Do you think Satan, the angel of music, would make it so obvious that it was wrong music? No, he is the master of deceit and uses music to gradually gain ground and control in a person's life.

By the way, I have not seen a Christian who has listened to CCM long term on fire for God, rather, I have seen my best friend destroyed by it.


Again, anecdotal evidence is not empirical, and is a highly subjective standard for determining if something is right or wrong. For every situation you can point to where CCM/Southern Gospel/whatever, created "weaker Christians," I can point to situations where those who listened to it became stronger Christians. Anecdotal evidence cannot be used to determine objective truth.

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These are not anecdotal evidences Will. They are real facts. True stories. And in another place in the article, he stated that a repetitive drum beat was a crucial part of the ceremonies.

And I don't know how you could say it is all subjective. There was clear evidence in all of those writings...

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I STILL don't know why the Holy Spirit would tell me "NO" to something and tell somebody else "YES".

:?


Since music effects people differently, is it possible that some music might be okay for one but not another?

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These are not anecdotal evidences Will. They are real facts. True stories. And in another place in the article, he stated that a repetitive drum beat was a crucial part of the ceremonies.

And I don't know how you could say it is all subjective. There was clear evidence in all of those writings...


A research paper that doesn't cite sources or other evidences is highly subjective. True stories, while true, do not necessarily hold true for everybody. A repetitive drum beat can be a crucial part of some ceremonies, yes, but that would depend on what trad you're in as well. And much of it is very monotone too, not necessarily anything other than striking the drum every second or so. There's nothing wrong with a drum beat. Where the problem lies is with the spells they cast while drumming. The drumming most shamans use is to focus their mind so that they can properly cast a spell. It's nothing like what you'd hear in a concert today.

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Will, you will never be convinced no matter how much "empirical" evidence is presented because you won't let it get past your mind to your heart.


No empirical evidence has been presented yet. I play music that brings honor to God. I settled that a long time ago. It's not a matter of "head vs heart." I don't listen to music where they curse, are sexually explicit, etc. The Bible doesn't give us rules on music, other than we are to bring glory to God in our music we use when worshipping. And that we are to listen to things that are lovely and of good report, etc.

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Will, you have made music amoral and that is wrong. It is not amoral.

I don't really think there's anything more I can post on here. You are obviously closed to anything that I will post on the subject.

Hopefully someone on here will at least gain some encouragement from my posts.

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Kitagirl, this is a question that can have only a couple of answers: either someone is not obeying the Lord, or they have not grown up yet to that point. God is very gracious in any case, and I am very glad. He has sent me to the woodshed over stuff that I see other IFB's doing as a way of life. Now, I could be like my siblings did when they were younger: "Why didn't HE get spanked, too??" but that would be the wrong attitude. I cannot control what others do, but I can control what I do, and I can teach and train my children in the right paths. Mark it down, the church is steadily getting more worldly, and those who hold to the old paths will be ridiculed.

If a Christian pointed out something that I was doing or not doing that appeared wrong to them, what would my reaction be? Honestly, before I defended myself so quickly, I would ask the Lord to show me if I was wrong....and if I wasn't wrong....did it still appear to be wrong and would I hinder others coming to Christ because of it? Isn't there a verse that says "let not your good be evil spoken of"? I've known of godly Christians who gave up some good things, not questionable things, but good things, just so that they would not hinder a certain individual's life.


You could not be more wrong. You are assuming that those that believe differently from you on this matter are doing so because a) they are disobeying God or B) lack of maturity. What an unbelievably arrogant position to hold. You know absolutely nothing of how much study and prayer a Brother or Sister has put into their decision. You know nothing of their discernment concerning what SG music they listen to and what they avoid.

Romans 14 addresses this very principle. If it causes my brother to stumble it is not good for him. I would not take Brother Kevin to a Southern Gospel singing, but Brother Will and I could surely enjoy attending a singing together. Why ? Read Roman 14

I personally know people in Southern Gospel music. The stuff I hear described here isn't what they sing or why they sing it. These people sacrifice a great deal to serve in the ministry they have been called. As with anything there are those who are in it for the wrong reasons, doing the wrong things, and not glorifying God. Those people are the exception in my experience. If they wanted to sing country music they could go to any bar around and sing all they wanted. That is not there are doing, these people are doing their best to serve God in their way using the talent He gave them.

You can listen to whatever kind of music you feel is appropriate to listen to and I will do the same. People like me don't take offense because you don't like the music I listen to. I do however become defensive when you talk about all that is wrong with SG music when you clearly have shown you know very little about the people involved, their motives, and their lives. The Gaither's are not the defining group in Southern Gospel Music. There are hundreds of small groups who spend much of their spare time and money singing Southern Gospel for the Lord.



Rom 14:1 ¶ Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.


Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.


Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.


Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.


Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.


Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.


Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


Rom 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.


Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.


Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

Rom 14:14 ¶ I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.


Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.


Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:


Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved of men.


Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.


Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.


Rom 14:21 [it is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.


Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.


Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

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Good post Tim.

Kevin,

Are you saying that if a church or individual that listens to or sings Southern Gospel music (in a church) is living in sin and cannot be blessed by God?

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Some of the most hardcore Christian youth I know, the ones that love God with all their heart and interested in serving Him with their life listen to CCM and Southern Gospel. On the other hand, I know very few that were raised on conservative music only that are interested in serving the Lord.


Oh, THAT proves its okay! :?

And thank you, after my family was saved when I was age 8, I was raised on classical and Patch the Pirate, and I consider myself serving the Lord. Be careful making up statistics!

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Good post Tim.

Kevin,

Are you saying that if a church or individual that listens to or sings Southern Gospel music (in a church) is living in sin and cannot be blessed by God?


When did I say anything about southern gospel? Everybody who's getting defensive about their southern gospel music is pulling that out of my posts. Those posts deal with rock(a repetitive rock beat) which can be present in any genre including southern gospel. And I didn't say they couldn't be blessed by God, but that the listeners are opening themselves up to Satanic influence. The rock beat is clearly sensual which is why it is so addicting and oftentimes harder for a guy to give up than a girl. Just like the sensual pleasure derived from pornography is more of a struggle for guys.

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Kevin, this thread was talking about southern gospel music, so to go on and on about rock music is not relevant.

Katy-Anne

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Kevin, this thread was talking about southern gospel music, so to go on and on about rock music is not relevant.

Katy-Anne


If southern gospel shares some elements of rock music (which some does) then it is not irrelevant (which seems to be your buzzword lately, KatyAnne, LOL!)

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When did I say anything about southern gospel? Everybody who's getting defensive about their southern gospel music is pulling that out of my posts. Those posts deal with rock(a repetitive rock beat) which can be present in any genre including southern gospel. And I didn't say they couldn't be blessed by God, but that the listeners are opening themselves up to Satanic influence. The rock beat is clearly sensual which is why it is so addicting and oftentimes harder for a guy to give up than a girl. Just like the sensual pleasure derived from pornography is more of a struggle for guys.


You haven't proven satanic influence at all Kevin.

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You haven't proven satanic influence at all Kevin.


And I never shall. Were I to post an exhaustive study on the origins of rock in voodoo and list every satanist in the world, it would not be enough. God has to work because nothing I say will be of any influence.

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And I never shall. Were I to post an exhaustive study on the origins of rock in voodoo and list every satanist in the world, it would not be enough. God has to work because nothing I say will be of any influence.


An exhaustive study actually might be convincing. But I've studied the issue out as well Kevin, and I've arrived to a different conclusion. I have peace about my decision. The only reason I join in this thread is because of the caricatures that are posted of people who listen to Southern Gospel and such. It's NOT that I'm hard-hearted. I didn't arrive to this conclusion lightly. You seem to think that anybody who believes differently regarding this issue isn't right with God. This is a rather erroneous assumption to make. Music in the Bible was frequently with many instruments, including percussion instruments. They had bands up leading the music in worship. As I posted earlier, this comes down to a Romans 14 type deal.

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Suzy, do you think this is at all possible?


I don't know...I wouldn't think music that affects one person badly could actually be good music?

Some people claim that Victoria's Secret ads do not bother them. I don't suppose that means its right for some and not for others?

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A possible explanation for SGM, CCM, rock, country, etc., bothering some and not bothering others.

1Ti 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

I was asked to speak at a church near our home. They sang accapella with traditional hymn books, it was a blessing. I was asked to come back a second time. This time they had a big screen media prepped with a "Praise and Worship" dvd on que. It had rolling green smoke on the screen. My stomach fealt sick. They announced they were going to try this new P&W dvd. They pressed play and WHAM!from the depths of hell came this LOUD rock beat and the words to the beloved old hymn, 'All Hail the Power of Jesus Name.' I was sitting right down front. I stepped into the aisle, my wife stepped out, I said, "Come children," and we walked out the back door. The senior member (they didn't have a pastor, that's why I was there speaking,) came out behind us. He asked, "Is someone ill?" I told him no, but that we teach our children that rock music is sinful. He asked, "But didn't you hear the words?" I said, "Yes, but didn't you hear the music?" He said, "Yes, this music (key point here,)used to bother me, but the more I listened to it, the less it bothered me." He told us we didn't have to come back in and we left.

As we drove away, I asked my children, "Why do you suppose that music quit bothering him the more he listened to it?" My son replied, "His conscience is seared with a hot iron."

Out of the mouth of babes.

America is filled with a form of godliness that denies the power thereof. If has so infiltrated, even the fundamentalist baptist circles, that families are in dismay about where to take there family to keep them from being poluted IN THE CHURCH!

One may dismiss ANY and ALL arguements about this topic, it is your perogative. However, good, strong, very conservative, bible-believing families all over the country say the same thing, "Where (what church) will we raise our family?" My preacher back home said, an excuse is a LIE with the skin of a truth on it.

Since it is wrong for me to listen to Garth Brooks, I can now listen to Southern Gospel Music, same sound, differnet words. I used to listen to Led Zeppelin, but that was wrong, so now I can listen to CCM and Christian rock, same music different words.
So I ask, I used to drink Budweiser beer, can I make up a new cover for it called, JESUS BRAND BEER, and now it is acceptable, because I changed the words, right? No, not right, because I will not be abstaining from the appearance of evil. Nor will you.

Redifine it, change it's words, but it is still the same old snake, that said, "...Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Go ahead, Katy-Anne, Will, and you others. Eat, it's all yours, all you can eat. Err on the side of gray areas and danger. You have your LIBERTY, don't you?

"...having their conscience seared with a hot iron"

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