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Things to think about:

Only one Bible author wrote commands about the tithe - its purpose, amount and procedures. That person was Moses. In Malachi, God was speaking and only stating the commands of the Law.

The third and sixth year tithe was not for the Congregation, nor for the priests. It was for the widows, the orphans, and the Levites who came to your property for the tithes... and they ate it there. Did they eat money?

The first, second, fourth and fifth year tithes were taken to a designated place, which eventually became Jerusalem.

There was no seventh year tithe. There was no fiftieth year tithe either as that was the year of Jubilee.

Abram's tithe to Melchisadek was 10% of the choicest of spoils that Abram did not even want to keep himself. He did not tithe any of his own possessions.

There are many other truths concerning tithes of Old Testament times that I could post, but these alone show that the tithe preaching done in most Churches today is not lining up with God's Word at all.

Seth,

Those verses are speaking of offerings, not tithes.

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I think we all agree we are to give. The question seems to be are we commanded to give ten percent or are we commanded to give as the Lord leads us?

Why are we to trust the Lord for all things but so many pastors don't believe they can trust the Lord to provide the funds for the church unless they threaten their congregation every so often with "tithe or suffer the wrath of God" type sermons?

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I think we all agree we are to give. The question seems to be are we commanded to give ten percent or are we commanded to give as the Lord leads us?

Why are we to trust the Lord for all things but so many pastors don't believe they can trust the Lord to provide the funds for the church unless they threaten their congregation every so often with "tithe or suffer the wrath of God" type sermons?


2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

I believe it is quite clear. There is no set amount. It is as a man purposes to give, not what someone demands he give.

As I said previously... if one feels he needs to give 10%, fine. no, great! But don't claim that 10% is tithes. Biblical tithes was never money.
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If any twisting is being done, it is by the preachers who say God demands our money for tithes. Scripture nowhere declares such idiocy... nowhere!

Money is mentioned for offerings, btw, not just silver and gold.
better go look up what the word "money" means in the hebrew friend.
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Money in Hebrew meant silver. but in Greek, it was oft relating to a coin... a drachma, a stander, etc.

New Testament offerings were often coins.

Zeal,
You cannot bring the money in verse 19 of Leviticus which is speaking about offerings into verse 31 and forward. Those are tithes. and it is clear from Deuteronomy that if tithes were changed to money form, the money was to be changed back to tithes form later. Money was not tithes.

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Money in Hebrew meant silver. but in Greek, it was oft relating to a coin... a drachma, a stander, etc.

New Testament offerings were often coins.

Zeal,
You cannot bring the money in verse 19 of Leviticus which is speaking about offerings into verse 31 and forward. Those are tithes. and it is clear from Deuteronomy that if tithes were changed to money form, the money was to be changed back to tithes form later. Money was not tithes.


FRN aren't Silver...
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Seth, Those verses are speaking of offerings, not tithes.


And as I said, if someone wants to forget tithing and give offerings in the NT manner, fine. They would be giving a great deal more than 10% anyway, but many of those that don't want to tithe don't give much of an offering either. They are like the Pharisees deriding Jesus for saying they cannot have two masters, they cannot serve God and mammon...

Why are we to trust the Lord for all things but so many pastors don't believe they can trust the Lord to provide the funds for the church unless they threaten their congregation every so often with "tithe or suffer the wrath of God" type sermons?


Probably because the average member even at a fundamentalist church is so tight fisted they will not even give what amounts to a tip to God, let alone "first give themselves". So the pastor gets frustrated by their carnality and tries to treat the symptoms rather than the problem. The problem is most congregations are "stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears". Not a great deal that can be done about that... The pastor can preach, but if the majority of the people having eyes see not, and having ears hear not, not much will happen. They will compliment him on his "great sermon" that "spoke to them" and then go on there way not a bit changed. Beholding their face in a glass and going away forgetting what manner of man they were...

Read that passage again. The money was to be distributed to those in need. All of the money, not 90%.


Yes, but why is that not giving to the Lord? The money given to the church just goes to the missionaries, pastor, special needs, ect. anyway. God doesn't lock it up in a box and take it up to heaven. :lol: Rather he says "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."


"Proverbs 14:31 He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but
he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor. "
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Again, none of this in the New Testament is tithes.

As to if they gave according to the New Testament they would give more than 10%, I disagree. Paul said "let every man give as he purposeth in his own heart.' That does not sound like give more than 10%. Some did give more, some gave all. But once Salvation was opened to the Gentiles, Paul preached a different message. Give as you wish... cheerfully!. Don't put a yoke of bondage on the necks of the people. Preach that which Scripture declares for the Believer.

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FRN aren't Silver...

FRN ARE legal tender. Look on the front of a dollar bill--which is a FRN--it says "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PRIVATE AND PUBLIC". The FRN is backed by a common element that is used worldwide and in abundance...silver. Therefore it is still following biblical principles, paying the offering in that which is equivalent to a certain amount of silver.
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Paul said "let every man give as he purposeth in his own heart. That does not sound like give more than 10%.


Is there a single example off a NT offering that could be reasonably viewed as less than 10%?

Don't put a yoke of bondage on the necks of the people.


That is the wrong attitude. Since when is giving anything to God a "yoke of bondage"? A Christian SHOULD have surrendered all to Jesus when he or she got saved.

Jesus put it this way....

"Matthew 25:14-30 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strowed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strowed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

This parable teaches that ALL of the Christians money is Gods. Period. Many Christians don't seem to understand that basic truth. God gives us HIS money with the understanding that we will use it for him. The servant that didn't use the masters money for the masters benefit but "buried it" instead, lost it all and the other servants got promoted... Something to think about...
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When you telll the people they must tithe 10% of their finances, you are putting a yoke of bondage on the people. You are also lying to them, as God's Word never requires 10% of their money.

2 Corinthians 9 says one should give as he purposes in his heart. That can be 10%, or it could be more or even less. And if it is even 1% and given cheerfully, it is accepted of God.

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FRN ARE legal tender. Look on the front of a dollar bill--which is a FRN--it says "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PRIVATE AND PUBLIC". The FRN is backed by a common element that is used worldwide and in abundance...silver. Therefore it is still following biblical principles, paying the offering in that which is equivalent to a certain amount of silver.


Hmmm, better go check that... FRN are NOT backed by anything. They are a fiat money system. They are paper... and a promise.

And the whole point is that if we are trying to differentiate between "silver money (as the bible speaks of) and "increase", then we better differentiate between fiat money...

Otherwise we are picking and choosing what we are trying to argue. It's not logical and it's not biblical (if we are speaking on the terms that SFIC is trying to argue) to pay God with paper in your offering.

Sorry, but that capsulizes this discussion completely. Sure, what I am saying is silly... but if it doesn't hold water neither does the "produce" argument.
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