Giving it up for lent

[1Timothy115]

BAPTISTS ADOPTING ADVENT AND LENT

?Baptists Turning to the Observation of Lent? is the title of an Associated Baptist Press report for February 26. ?Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ? (Colossians 2:8).
http://www.wayoflife.org

John,
Thanks for finding and sharing the above.
Psalms 12:1 Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

[JerryNumbers]

BAPTISTS ADOPTING ADVENT AND LENT

?Baptists Turning to the Observation of Lent? is the title of an Associated Baptist Press report for February 26. The article says: ?Though traditionally viewed as a Catholic rite, increasing numbers of Baptists are discovering the discipline of Lent. Belmont University, until recently affiliated with the Tennessee Baptist Convention, marked Feb. 25 with an Ash Wednesday service co-officiated by a Catholic bishop. ... That began to break down in recent decades as more Baptist (and other Protestant) churches began observing the season of Advent. Some of those congregations also began to incorporate other parts of the liturgical calendar into their worship planning ... Bo Prosser, coordinator for congregational life with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, said he sees interest in Lent growing in Baptist churches every year. ... Passport, Inc., a student-ministry organization and partner of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, produces a web-based Lenten devotional called d365.org. The Baptist Center for Ethics, another CBF partner, sells an online group study for Lent in PDF format that was produced in partnership with the Baptist World Alliance.? CONCLUDING NOTE: Lent and Advent are Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox sacramental practices that have no biblical authority. For Baptists to adopt these things is further evidence of the encroachment of the ecumenical movement, the blending of doctrinal distinctives, and the unifying of the denominations. Doubtless one of the impetuses for the adoption of Advent and Lent among Baptists is the spread of contemplative mysticism through the influence of men like Richard Foster and Dallas Willard. Contemplative practices such as centering prayer, visualization prayer, lectio divina, the Jesus prayer, and breath prayers are adapted from the darkness of Catholic monasticism. ?Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ? (Colossians 2:8).

http://www.wayoflife.org

Yes, sad to say many of our Baptist brethren are selling out to the RCC, but did not God tell us things such as this would come to pass.

They call it being negative, when you hold only to the truth, its and easy defense to put forth.

[John81]

Some people are just negative and against everything; no matter what the actual motive or reasoning............

Motive and reasoning is not to be the basis of our actions. Peter had good motives and he surely thought his reasoning was good when he argued against Jesus being killed and when he drew his sword and cut that man's ear off but that didn't make his actions right or in the will of God.

Adopting the customs of others, which we can look to OT Israel to see what that leads to, is not the biblical approach.

[HappyChristian]

Motive and reasoning is not to be the basis of our actions. Peter had good motives and he surely thought his reasoning was good when he argued against Jesus being killed and when he drew his sword and cut that man's ear off but that didn't make his actions right or in the will of God.

Adopting the customs of others, which we can look to OT Israel to see what that leads to, is not the biblical approach.

Motive is not a basis? Well, I disagree there! When God looks on us, what does He see? Our hearts. And what do our hearts contain? Our motives. I believe our motives for what we do are vital. When we are constrained by Christ to do something, we are motivated. What is our motivation? The love of Christ. Motive is absolutely going to be considered in the judgment of our works - else there won't be any that go up in smoke!

[trc123]

Motive is not a basis? Well, I disagree there! When God looks on us, what does He see? Our hearts. And what do our hearts contain? Our motives. I believe our motives for what we do are vital. When we are constrained by Christ to do something, we are motivated. What is our motivation? The love of Christ. Motive is absolutely going to be considered in the judgment of our works - else there won't be any that go up in smoke!

I could not have said it better. Of course, we all know that there are many who do "good works" for their own glory's sake and we know that God sees and does judge the heart. Saying that motive doesn't count only doing the right thing sounds very spiritual; but doesn't really hold water in the final analysis.

[John81]

Motive is not a basis? Well, I disagree there! When God looks on us, what does He see? Our hearts. And what do our hearts contain? Our motives. I believe our motives for what we do are vital. When we are constrained by Christ to do something, we are motivated. What is our motivation? The love of Christ. Motive is absolutely going to be considered in the judgment of our works - else there won't be any that go up in smoke!

Our motive isn't always right. There are those who lie, murder, steal, support abortion and stem cell research with "good motives" but those motives are yet wrong.

We must base our decisions and base what is right and wrong not on our motives or anothers, but on the unchanging and perfect Word of God.

[1Timothy115]

Some people are just negative and against everything; no matter what the actual motive or reasoning............

Negative...negative? That is the resounding argument of the world against Fundamental Bible Believers. I can't count the times I've called people out on sin only to be told I'm negative. That argument is a tool of Satan.

This is where our concern should be...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7041036&page=1
"According to the poll, which came out today, the percentage of Americans who define themselves as Christian has dropped from 86 percent in 1990 to 76 percent in 2008."

American Religious Identification Survey 2008
http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/
"The percentage of Americans claiming no religion, which jumped from 8.2 in 1990 to 14.2 in 2001, has now increased to 15 percent."

The "church" of the lost in the United States, those without Jesus Christ, in Satan's clutches, and doomed to hell is GROWING. ME and YOU who hold a fundamental view of our Lord and Savior's imminent return better get off our backsides.

[JerryNumbers]

Negative...negative? That is the resounding argument of the world against Fundamental Bible Believers. I can't count the times I've called people out on sin only to be told I'm negative. That argument is a tool of Satan.

This is where our concern should be...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7041036&page=1
"According to the poll, which came out today, the percentage of Americans who define themselves as Christian has dropped from 86 percent in 1990 to 76 percent in 2008."

American Religious Identification Survey 2008
http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/
"The percentage of Americans claiming no religion, which jumped from 8.2 in 1990 to 14.2 in 2001, has now increased to 15 percent."

The "church" of the lost in the United States, those without Jesus Christ, in Satan's clutches, and doomed to hell is GROWING. ME and YOU who hold a fundamental view of our Lord and Savior's imminent return better get off our backsides.

No matter ones motive, if they're using false doctrine, they are walking away from God, not walking closer. But false doctrine seems to make many feel all warm, cozy, and secure.

Few there be who want to hold to the Fundamental Bible truths, us who do are told we're being negative while trying to point them to God's truths.

[HappyChristian]

Our motive isn't always right. There are those who lie, murder, steal, support abortion and stem cell research with "good motives" but those motives are yet wrong.

We must base our decisions and base what is right and wrong not on our motives or anothers, but on the unchanging and perfect Word of God.

Absolutely, John! Just because we think a motive is right, doesn't make it so. The Bible is very clear that the heart is deceitful...and that is from whence motives arise. The motives we have for doing something comes from our view on what is right and wrong.

God says that He is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Intents are motives. Everything we do is done for certain motives, no matter what we might call it. There is a motivation behind all of our actions. And our motives should be, as you said, based on the unchanging and perfect Word of God. All of our decisions are made with motive. There is always some kind of intention behind an action. Always. And seeking to draw closer to God is not only a good motive, it's a command given to us by God!

[John81]

Absolutely, John! Just because we think a motive is right, doesn't make it so. The Bible is very clear that the heart is deceitful...and that is from whence motives arise. The motives we have for doing something comes from our view on what is right and wrong.

God says that He is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Intents are motives. Everything we do is done for certain motives, no matter what we might call it. There is a motivation behind all of our actions. And our motives should be, as you said, based on the unchanging and perfect Word of God. All of our decisions are made with motive. There is always some kind of intention behind an action. Always. And seeking to draw closer to God is not only a good motive, it's a command given to us by God!

True, but there are right ways and wrong ways to go about this. Even if our motive is to draw close to God, it's possible to do this in the wrong way, the good motive doesn't overrule the wrong actions.

I knew one man who was sincerely motivated to draw close to God, get active in church and get his family involved. He spent many months looking into various churches in his area, learning of their doctrinal positions, their history/background, studying Christianity, etc. He finally decided the Orthodox Church was the closest thing to a perfect church and the best place for him to be to draw closer to God. His motive was good, he was sincere, but his actions were wrong.

Scripture gives examples of those who took it upon themselves to worship God or seek out God in a way contrary to God's ways and they suffered because of this.

[JerryNumbers]

Right, some chose to believe I can worship God any way I chose. Like the young man who once told me, I would attend church, but I can't find a church that believes as I do.

Some even chose how they are saved, of course they never get saved.

The truth is we have to approach God in the way He has laid out in the Instruction Book, and if we will do that with a repenting heart we can grow close to God.

From their beginning, the Roman Catholic has chosen to make their own doctrine, its a very dangerous doctrine, simplify because they use a few Bible truths from the Holy Bible to build their doctrine. And the same thing can be stated for many false teaching churches.

I've heard some say, I can come to God just as I am and I do not have to ever change, that God will always accept just as I am without ever changing the least bit.

Sad to say, some churches that were once solid Bible believing churches have let false teachings creep in and they no longer follow God closely, but from afar off.

One such church is not more than a mile and a half down the road from me, they've lost over half of their members, more than 50 of them have joined a small church that had only about 5 to 8 members. I just hope they don't lead that church astray.

Can you imagine going from 5 to 8 members to more than 60 in the matter of 2 weeks? If will be interesting to see what comes about.

[1Timothy115]

Motive is not a basis? Well, I disagree there! When God looks on us, what does He see? Our hearts. And what do our hearts contain? Our motives. I believe our motives for what we do are vital. When we are constrained by Christ to do something, we are motivated. What is our motivation? The love of Christ. Motive is absolutely going to be considered in the judgment of our works - else there won't be any that go up in smoke!

:2cents
Late, but need to comment here. When God looks at the Christian He will see Jesus Christ shed blood. If God saw our hearts then we would be condemned eternally. Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" There is no motivation only grace.

[HappyChristian]

:2cents
Late, but need to comment here. When God looks at the Christian He will see Jesus Christ shed blood. If God saw our hearts then we would be condemned eternally. Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" There is no motivation only grace.

Then why will we be judged in eternity? God says our works will be judged. For what? Has to be the motives behind our works - because some go up in flame.

[1Timothy115]

Late but, I ran across this and thought it might be educational. Bolded underlined parts added by me :Green
http://www.americancatholic.org/news/ne ... spx?id=738
"Catholic News Service
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
WASHINGTON (CNS)?Here are the Church regulations for fasting and abstinence during Lent:

- Everyone 14 years of age or older is bound to abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday, all the Fridays of Lent and Good Friday.

- Everyone 18 or older, and under 59 years of age, is bound to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

- On Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, only one full meatless meal is allowed. Two other meatless meals, sufficient to maintain strength, may be taken according to each one's needs, but together they should not equal another full meal. Eating between meals is not permitted. When health or ability to work would be seriously affected, the law does not oblige.

- Catholics should not lightly excuse themselves from these prescribed minimal penitential practices."

How would Paul speak on this matter?

[1Timothy115]

Then why will we be judged in eternity? God says our works will be judged. For what? Has to be the motives behind our works - because some go up in flame.

I believe it's a case of surrender. The grace of God working in us not of us.