Members Samer Posted January 31, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Amen John and Jerry. Although my initial remark was flippant to Kevin, my point was seriously meant. I believe the only instance in which a RCC-goer may be saved is the instance in which such a person is more or less ignorant of the Catholic heresies, and especially the false sacramental gospel. This is almost certainly not true of a middle-aged conservative poltical talk-show host. To say Hannity is in ignorance is to be ignorant ourselves, and to say he is saved ignores the false gospel he knows about, due to "honoring his parents," is to fool ourselves. Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. If Hannity is saved, then he loves his parents much more than he does Christ. I simply don't believe a saved person--especially a middle-aged adult man--can stay in that situation for any length of time, hearing a false gospel over and over and over, knowing in his heart that it's wicked (if he had the Holy Spirit, he surely would know). He is not under his parents any longer. Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. There are certain things a person simply cannot believe, and at the same time, be saved. Rome surely has several of these "damnable heresies," including the false sacramental works-based "gospel," which is no gospel (good news) at all, but a curse unto Hell. And, if I may be so bold, I must declare, Revelation 18:4 is talking about the whore of Babylon, described in the previous chapter, which is none other than Rome, and its false, anti-Christian religious system, the Roman Catholic Church. How long can a saved person be in such opposition to Christ? Surely, not very long. What is Hannity's testimony of conversion--his new-birth experience? I believe if a person grows in the Lord to even a slight degree, he will get out of that wicked false church. To think that anything more than a tiny fraction (< 1%) of Roman Catholics are saved is, in my opinion, bogus, ignorant, and based on an unscriptural hope. We need a lot more than "oh, he claims the name of Christ, and seems like a pretty good person" to conjecture that such a person is probably saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kubel Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 I think it's inappropriate to say just because you are a Catholic that you can't be saved. I think when we all get to heaven we will be surprised how many people are there from other denominations, and we will be equally surprised how many people aren't there from the "Baptist" crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samer Posted January 31, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 If you believe certain things, you can't be saved. Catholics believe certain things. Therefore, the common Catholic, who believes Catholic doctrine, cannot be saved. Notice that I did leave room for a "tiny fraction." But I think anything more is simply wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Excellent post Samer!!! Kubel, Nobody is saying a Catholic can't be saved. What is being said is that a born again person, filled with the Holy Ghost, won't remain a Catholic. Also, the Catholic Church is not a "denomination." Rather, the Catholic Church is a false church which claims to be the one and only true church, while denying key portions of the Scriptures and preaching a false gospel which leads to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alen Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 My friends father got saved after reading the Bible, and if you hear his testimony, it's the real deal. The only churches around in his country was basically Catholic, when he got here, he did realize the error with them, I have met other Catholics as well, whom I believe are saved. -Alen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lettheredeemedsayso Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 I believe that they can be saved but I also believe that if they truly are they will separate from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IM4given Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 People born into the Catholic faith are blinded to the truth from infancy - they are spinkled in a batimsmal ceremony and that is supposed to assure their place in Purgatory. No Catholic, if you ask them, believes they will go to heaven - but because of this infant baptism and various other sacraments that have been performed, they do believe they will be spared from Hell. If you go to a Catholic based website, you will not see any scriptural plan of salvation. They are a blind people, who are purposely blindfolded by the Satanic-led clergy, and will remain blind all of their lives, without intervention from the Holy Spirit. Their idea of salvation is based on rites and rituals performed at various stages throughout their lives, that will guarantee their place in Purgatory. It takes generations of prayers and payment of indulgences to cause a person to supposedly leave Purgatory and reach "sainthood" status - which is how a Catholic believes only Saints who are "knighted" by the Pope will be in heaven. Heaven is not for the average ordinary every day Catholic - only for those special few who have enough finaincial backing to achieve that status - everyone wants to be a Saint, but only a few will ever reach that status. So if you ask a Catholic if they believe when they die, that they will go to heaven, they will honestly tell you no, they don't believe they will. They are on the "waiting list" of salvation - but not there yet. That is how Satan prevents all of the millions of people from recieving the true gospel of salvation, and though they think they are in line to go to Purgatory, they find out too late that the line they have been waiting in for all of those decades leads straight into the pits of Hell. It is sort of like standing in a really long line at a bank or an airport and you aren't sure if you are in the right line or not, because you can't see the desk ahead of you. If the Holy Spirit intervenes, some Catholics may leave the Church and recieve salvation, but very few even realize they are standing in the wrong line. Once you recieve the true gospel of salvation, it is very difficult to continue standing in the line everyone else thinks is going to Purgatory, because you will eventually reach the conclusion where the line is really heading! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thank you Janet. In university we (myself and a few others) would seek out Catholics and present the Gospel to them. We had a great deal of success with those who were "Catholic because they were born that way," but no success at all with those who truly identified themselves as Catholic. Those who were "born Catholic" but thought they were okay with God because of that, were open to the Gospel and readily accepted Christ and were instantly repulsed by the lies of the Catholic Church and wanted nothing more to do with it. Some of them joined our Bible study group. Not a single Catholic that we reached with the Gospel remained a Catholic. Each one of them immediately repented of all things Catholic and turned to a Bible believing church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ascund Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Greetings I've read a few of the posts and note that the discussions tend to focus on Catholic theology. While I agree that Catholic theology is hopelessly self-righteous and denies the sufficiency of Christ, the discussion misses the point. A Catholic is NOT saved by correct theology. A Catholic is saved in the same way every other saved person is saved: by grace (alone) through faith (alone) in Christ (alone). Many bedeviled Catholics are saved even tho they hold dearly to Mary, images, kiss rings, and other foolishnesses. Salvation is linked solely and only to the Person of Jesus Christ. God does not demand mastery in theology in order to pronounce a guilty sinner righteous. Dr. Olson :sing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samer Posted January 31, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 But it's not just any doctrine. The Catholic Church completely misses the theology of salvation. Can somebody believe in a sacramental "salvation" and still be saved? Can somebody be saved and worship Mary? Many bedeviled Catholics are saved Being bedeviled (possessed with a devil) and being saved are completely opposite things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 A born again believer has the Holy Ghost to guide them and lead them to truth. A born again Christian could not continue to be a Catholic and partake in their paganistic, ungodly church without grieving the Holy Ghost. True enough, all who are saved are saved in the same manner, as Ephesians tells us. However, Scripture also tells us that we are to separate ourselves from the ungodly, separate from abominations, separate from evil, separate from anything that might damage our witness and testimony. The Catholic Church is not just another church with some differences. The Catholic Church is an anti-Christ church. Their teachings go against Scripture. They deceive folks by claiming to be Christian when they are not. Their religion points away from Christ and preaches 'another Christ' that leads to damnation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ascund Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Can somebody believe in a sacramental "salvation" and still be saved? Can somebody be saved and worship Mary? Hey Samer. Yes! People can be saved with all sorts of bad theology. I don't recommend this bad theology. I just know that eternal life is linked to Jesus Christ and not some sort of test that a denomination might put before a person. Your question is a common question. More often, it is asked in relation to bad works. Can a person be saved who commits apostacy? Or one who drifts from the faith? Or one who makes a shipwreck of the faith? Or one who wanders from the faith? Your question is no different than these other questions. They imply (demand) a level of human perfection before one is awarded eternal life. This is NOT the gospel message. The gospel message of Jesus Christ is about God's righteousness (Rom 1:16,17) - not our righteousness. Dr. Olson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Didn't some churches in the New Testament continue to hold to their vain doctrines after salvation? Did not Paul have to write several letters addressing such doctrines because, though they were saved, they were ignorant of their error? I believe you can be saved and still find yourself grossly ignorant in doctrine. In Baptist circles as well as Catholic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ascund Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hi Kevin Miller I do believe you are right here. Paul saw the Corinthians in theology trouble and had to write about their practices. John saw the beginnings of what we know as Gnosticism and wrote about that. If you are a Baptist, Catholics will think you need some study. (I'm neither). If you are a Catholic, Baptists will think you need help. A lot of what we think we know has been conditioned by denominational rhetoric. Dr. Olson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chev1958 Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Being bedeviled (possessed with a devil) and being saved are completely opposite things. Dictionary.com Unabridged be·dev·il Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.