Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest Guest

Dispensational Salvation

Recommended Posts

Source: http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/ques ... lvatio.htm
What is "dispensational salvation?"

"Dispensational salvation" is the false teaching that people at different times in history, have had different ways to be saved. For example, some would say that under the Old Testament law, people had to keep the law (good works) to be saved.

The Bible is clear that there has always only been one way to be saved, and that way is through faith in Christ. "TO HIM GIVE ALL THE PROPHETS WITNESS, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Holy Bible, Acts 10:43). In the Old Testament, believers looked ahead in faith to Christ who would come and die for their sins. In the Church Age, we look back to Christ who has come and died for our sins. Salvation has always been by faith, looking to Christ completely to save us from our sins. Jesus said to the Jews, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad" (Holy Bible, John 8:56).


Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally do not make guesses on whether someone is a true believer or not. Since there are many who are like unto whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but inwardly ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. As Jesus would put it. :) I know that I am a child of God, and not hell or even the devil himself can take me away from Him. And I also understand false conversion where there is no fruit of repentance on their part. Genuine repentance begins with a change of thought concerning sin, often resulting in a sense of godly sorrow. So just because one expresses sorrow at the altar doesn't necessarily mean that they're saved. And the scriptures clearly teaches us that we can know for certain that we have (present tense) eternal life. John makes this clear as he states that the purpose of his written letter was to give assurance of salvation.

[quote="[color=red]The Word of God[/color]"]
1 John 5:13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The best way to preach and witness... is... not to preach the gospel... UNTIL the sinner is convicted of his sin.

Preach [b]sin, God's anger at sinners, judgment, hell, damnation, because ALL sinners DESERVE to be punished in the Lake of Fire. Smash totally apart whatever layer of pride or confidence the sinner has.[/b]

THEN preach the gospel of Christ!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote]
In the Old Testament, believers looked ahead in faith to Christ who would come and die for their sins. In the Church Age, we look back to Christ who has come and died for our sins. Salvation has always been by faith, looking to Christ completely to save us from our sins.
[/quote]

I was wondering if you could show me one person in the OT that believed on the finished work of the Lord Jesus.

God bless,

Calvary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

In some sense, they did anticipate the Messiah, but the faith that saved them wasn't always based on the same level of understanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm still trying to figure out what you are trying to communicate here.

Those are characteristics of Christ's sheep, those being who have trusted on Christ for salvation. Are we on the same page?

Or are you saying that there are people who are Christ's sheep outside of calling on Him for salvation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So are you not going to answer me?

Perhaps I should just ask you without reference to the verse. How do you believe a person gets to Heaven? Are there ways outside of calling on Christ? Do you believe God has "granted" some people salvation without the need to repent and call on Him?

At least tell me your age when you got saved. That isn't your testimony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pray tell, answer what? much ado about nothing kevin. How do you take a simple explanation of John 10:27,28 and turn it into a discussion of how do you know you're saved? Of course we have to repent. Did you read my[b] previous posts concerning God granting [/b]repentance? Please read (Acts 5:30,31; 11:17; 2 Tim. 2:24-26). I was saved when I was 12. And as I said, there are some private matters that are best kept private. Instead of people sticking their noses in other peoples private matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't be so quick in dismissing dispensational salvation as heresy.

If the OT, NT, trib and millennial saints are ALL saved in the same way then you have to SPIRITUALIZE many verses that appear to teach salvation by faith plus works and loss of salvation.

The Bible says to 'Rightly DIVIDE the word of God'.

I have always struggled with those verses which seem to teach the necessity of works eg Rom 2 and Jas 2 and I have never been satisfied by what the commentaries have had to say.

I am currently studying this in great detail and will make further comments in due course.

Samer, please don't call this 'heresy'. Unfortunately just like the Catholics many Baptists hang on to traditions handed down by Biblical scholars without questioning what the Bible is really saying.

Doc H

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doc, I will agree with Samer that it is pure heresy. You struggle with a couple passages that seem to indicate a loss of salvation. What do you do with the hundreds of verses that say that you can never lose your salvation. I learned a long time ago that you never build a doctrine on a couple verses, but the whole of Scripture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Doc H"]
I wouldn't be so quick in dismissing dispensational salvation as heresy.

If the OT, NT, trib and millennial saints are ALL saved in the same way then you have to SPIRITUALIZE many verses that appear to teach salvation by faith plus works and loss of salvation.

The Bible says to 'Rightly DIVIDE the word of God'.

I have always struggled with those verses which seem to teach the necessity of works eg Rom 2 and Jas 2 and I have never been satisfied by what the commentaries have had to say.

I am currently studying this in great detail and will make further comments in due course.

Samer, please don't call this 'heresy'. Unfortunately just like the Catholics many Baptists hang on to traditions handed down by Biblical scholars without questioning what the Bible is really saying.

Doc H
[/quote]

What the dispensational-salvation folks end up doing is cutting the Bible every which way to classify away the verses they can't explain. They do it in the guise of "rightly dividing the word of truth," but it seems to me the whole system is opposed to studying. They split the book of Acts every which way, and they will even say David was an exception. There's nothing consistent about it at all, and it lends to every man's interpretation of how one was saved when.

[i]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.[/i]

Paul and James both quote this. Paul said Abraham was justified by faith, and James said Paul was justified by works. Which is it? "Rightly dividing" doesn't help you here, because they're both talking about the same person, and say different things.

As far as me calling it a heresy, I don't mean to say one can't believe it and still be saved. But I [b]do[/b] believe it's contrary to the word of God, and what is a heresy, if not that?

Grace through faith is tradition? No, no.

I stand by Romans 4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Samer"]
[quote="Doc H"]I wouldn't be so quick in dismissing dispensational salvation as heresy.

If the OT, NT, trib and millennial saints are ALL saved in the same way then you have to SPIRITUALIZE many verses that appear to teach salvation by faith plus works and loss of salvation.

The Bible says to 'Rightly DIVIDE the word of God'.

I have always struggled with those verses which seem to teach the necessity of works eg Rom 2 and Jas 2 and I have never been satisfied by what the commentaries have had to say.

I am currently studying this in great detail and will make further comments in due course.

Samer, please don't call this 'heresy'. Unfortunately just like the Catholics many Baptists hang on to traditions handed down by Biblical scholars without questioning what the Bible is really saying.

Doc H
[/quote]

What the dispensational-salvation folks end up doing is cutting the Bible every which way to classify away the verses they can't explain. They do it in the guise of "rightly dividing the word of truth," but it seems to me the whole system is opposed to studying. They split the book of Acts every which way, and they will even say David was an exception. There's nothing consistent about it at all, and it lends to every man's interpretation of how one was saved when.

[i]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.[/i]

Paul and James both quote this. Paul said Abraham was justified by faith, and James said Paul was justified by works. Which is it? "Rightly dividing" doesn't help you here, because they're both talking about the same person, and say different things.

As far as me calling it a heresy, I don't mean to say one can't believe it and still be saved. But I [b]do[/b] believe it's contrary to the word of God, and what is a heresy, if not that?

Grace through faith is tradition? No, no.

I stand by Romans 4.[/quote]

Samer,

Thanks for not classifying me as a heretic or unsaved.

I of course believe that I was saved by grace ALONE through faith ALONE by Christ ALONE.

Doc H

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Pastorj"]
Doc, I will agree with Samer that it is pure heresy. You struggle with a couple passages that seem to indicate a loss of salvation. What do you do with the hundreds of verses that say that you can never lose your salvation. I learned a long time ago that you never build a doctrine on a couple verses, but the whole of Scripture.
[/quote]

But that's just it, it's not just a couple of verses. I believe in OSAS and have been debating others on another forum who believe you can lose your salvation. They bring up many verses from the OT and NT not just one or two.

Just something to think about is the gospel that Paul defended in Galations 1 the same as the everlasting gospel mentioned in Revelation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amen, there is only one way to be saved, man tries to make many other ways, but it want work.

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6 (KJV)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

In some sense, they did anticipate the Messiah, but the faith that saved them wasn't always based on the same level of understanding.


I have to ask again.

Can someone show me an OT saved person that was saved by trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ?

What you are doing is reading the NT back into the Old.


Genesis 22 is a type and a wonderful type, but can you honestly say that Abraham meant Christ when he said what he said in chapter 22? Or is it not more honest to say that in the context he meant a lamb, as in a lamb?

How do you explain Luke 24 vs. 25-27 or 1 Peter 1 vs. 10-12, Matthew 16:21-22, Luke 9:43-45 and Luke 24:1-9 "and they REMEMBERED his words". Why go to a tomb looking for a Saviour that you were "looking forward to"?

To be honest, we must reject the idea that men looked forward to the cross in the OT.

I can find no examples of it anywhere in the scriptures.

God bless,

Calvary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys act like Jesus didn't even exist before the NT! He was there from the very beginning.

I am not "up" on what all of this dispensational stuff means, I do not have all of your textbooks that teach this stuff. All I have is my KJV and I do know that Jesus has always been there, since the beginning of time, if not sooner.

I sort of think God has tried to be close to His people since He created us, but their human understandings have not always been the greatest. So even while He commanded them to make sacrifices and prepare the way for the Messiah, they did not know it, but the Messiah was there all along - not just figuratively, but in a very real and physical sense. Who was the Fourth Man in the fire, after all? Jesus was there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Janet,

Don't get ahead of me on this. I am not trying to suggest the Jesus was not pre-existent.

All I am saying is that the teaching that "all men looked forward to the cross" is a non Biblical idea.

The idea that men in the OT "dispensation" (a very Biblical word in fact) were saved in the same manner as a Christian in the Body of Christ is simply not true.

For one thing, if they were, and I say if, why did they not go to heaven as the believer did today?

Exactly, Christ hadn't died as of yet. So if the sacrifice had not been payed, how could the way be opened? (Read the book of Hebrews!)


To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, says the NT.

The OT has no such idea at all.


I think that most of the confusion comes from equating the OT hope as being the same hope that you and I have.

No OT saint was looking forward to going to heaven. We are.
No OT saint was sealed by the Holy Spirit. We are.
No OT saint was eternally secure. We are.
No OT saint went directly to heaven upon departing this earthly tabernacle. We do.
No OT saint had Christ indwelling him. We do.
No OT saint was in the church which is His body. We are.

Those are enough difference for me to take into consideration that OT salvation is not NT salvation.

Now, slow down and read that again. I did NOT say that the blood of Christ was not the efficacious medium for said salvation. :D

God bless,

Calvary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 32 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...