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Dispensational Salvation

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
The mistake people make is assuming that in the O.T., obeying the law equaled salvation, praying a praying in our dispensation equals salvation and in the Tribulation, not taking the mark will equal salvation.

It is not the act itself that equals salvation. The act is the evidence of faith.

People will not take the mark during the Tribulation because they will have heard God's message via the 144,000 Jewish witnesses and the 2 special witnesses (different debate, leave it alone :wink: ).

They will believe God and therefore not take the mark. Salvation is still by faith not by works. The works are the evidence of the faith.
[/quote]

:goodpost:

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Madeline, it was the bit about repentance not being part of salvation that I thought was really strange. In many places the Bible does teach repentance.

And to be perfectly honest, I didn't even understand the rest. :lol:

Katy-Anne

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[quote="KJB_Princess"]
Another question...when we get saved, we get the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of us, right? That's how we know we are saved, because we can feel His presence..even when we stray from the Lord, we feel that tug of the Holy Spirit trying to lead us back to Him. In the Old Testament, wouldn't it have been a little different? David asked that the holy spirit wouldn't be taken from him...

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Why would he be asking God this unless it were possible for God to cast him out of His presence, and take the holy spirit from him?
[/quote]


The Holy Spirit is the "trademark" for the Church. The Spirit of the Lord God came upon people in the O.T. for special occasions (think Samson, Elijah, Elisha) but did not continually indwell people in the sense that we are today.

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Pretty much what Katy-Anne said. :lol:

Luke 13:3, anybody?
2 Cor. 7:10? "Repentance to salvation"?

Hrm.

And agreed what Jess said about the Holy Spirit, of course. Pretty clear in the Bible.

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When Jesus told Nicodemus that "Ye must be born again", what dispensation was that?

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Nicodemus should have known that the only way to be saved was to be born again.

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[quote="Katy-Anne"]
Madeline, it was the bit about repentance not being part of salvation that I thought was really strange. In many places the Bible does teach repentance.

And to be perfectly honest, I didn't even understand the rest. :lol:

Katy-Anne
[/quote]


Hebrews is not about millennial blessings it is about showing the Jewish believers how Jesus is better than all the things they adhered to and that they must not forsake Christianity because of persecution. Jesus is better. He fulfilled all the O.T. law and prophecies.

Read Hebrews carefully and you'll see that Jesus is better than the angels, Abraham, Moses, the Law, the Levitical Priesthood, the High Priest (Aaron), the Tabernacle.

The law was a shadow of things to come and Jesus brought a new testament, a new covenant, one that the blood of bulls and goats could not equal for they could not take away sin.

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[quote="lettheredeemedsayso"]
[quote]How then did David have this assurance?
[/quote]

He had his assurance just like we do "by faith"

Check out Hebrews 11[/quote]


Yes, I know. I was asking Kathie if she knew why because of her previous questions about O.T. saints and faith.

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[quote]
Hebrews is not about millennial blessings it is about showing the Jewish believers how Jesus is better than all the things they adhered to and that they must not forsake Christianity because of persecution. Jesus is better. He fulfilled all the O.T. law and prophecies.

Read Hebrews carefully and you'll see that Jesus is better than the angels, Abraham, Moses, the Law, the Levitical Priesthood, the High Priest (Aaron), the Tabernacle.

The law was a shadow of things to come and Jesus brought a new testament, a new covenant, one that the blood of bulls and goats could not equal for they could not take away sin.
[/quote]

Absolutely awesome post!!!


[quote]
Yes, I know. I was asking Kathie if she knew why because of her previous questions about O.T. saints and faith.
[/quote]

Sorry :hide

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[quote="Katy-Anne"]
Madeline, it was the bit about repentance not being part of salvation that I thought was really strange. In many places the Bible does teach repentance.

And to be perfectly honest, I didn't even understand the rest. :lol:

Katy-Anne
[/quote]

When considering such things as repentance we cannot start with the OT. The reason we must not start with the OT is because most of the Bible was written by (through the Holy Spirit, of course) and to, Israelites. That means that first century Jews had a mind set about repentance before the opening of the NT. We must understand that mind set in order to understand the NT. How can we understand that mind set? By reading the same Word of God that the first century Jews had, i.e. the OT.

Yes, I absolutley agree with everyine else here. Throughout every dispensation one was saved by grace through faith.It is God who [b]grants[/b] us repentance (Acts 5:30,31; 11:17; 2 Tim. 2:24-26), it has to do with blessings and avoidance of punishments. There is no such thing as 'dispensational salvation because salvation is a universal truth, i.e. it is the same way in every dispensation.

Love,
Madeline

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
How then did David have this assurance?


Ps. 23:6b and I [b]will[/b] dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
[/quote]

In the KJV, there is a difference between 'will' and 'shall'. 'Will' implies desire or intent, while 'shall' is more of a promise.

Not sure if there is basis in the Hebrew behind this passage or not.

_

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Madeline, please tell us your salvation testimony.

Was there ever a time when you saw yourself as a wicked, vile sinner? Was there ever a time when you realized that your sinfulness offended a holy and righteous God? Was there ever a time when you realized that you could never do enough or be good enough or smart enough to attain to God's standards?

Did you then change your mind about the way you viewed sin and cried out to God for forgiveness and mercy?


This is not a trick question, neither am I being snippy. I really want to know.

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
Madeline, please tell us your salvation testimony.

Was there ever a time when you saw yourself as a wicked, vile sinner? Was there ever a time when you realized that your sinfulness offended a holy and righteous God? Was there ever a time when you realized that you could never do enough or be good enough or smart enough to attain to God's standards?

Did you then change your mind about the way you viewed sin and cried out to God for forgiveness and mercy?


[b]This is not a trick question[/b], neither am I being snippy. I really want to know.
[/quote]

And this is not a trick response. Sorry, I don't feel comfortable sharing my testimony on a public forum. Why not have every member here share their testimony also? :) But interesting you should ask. It is also interesting that just yesterday we got together and had a bible study late in the evening. We discussed how the enemy will make attempts to have us question our salvation. So as you can see, this topic touches me. I can tell you for certain that if I do so happen to slip up and sin, my heart breaks and I feel the God given conviction of the Holy Ghost. Because I do love God, and it breaks my heart to know that I have sinned against Him.

Psalm 23:6

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I'm sure most folks here would be glad to share their testimony. I feel you do not have a proper understanding of repentance.

I was born spiritually when I saw myself for the wicked, vile sinner that I am. I knew God's law and knew that it condemned me. How could anyone ever go through life having never sinned? I was condemned to go to hell. But I cried out for mercy, having changed my mind (repentance) about the way I viewed sin. I could see that it is horribly offensive to a holy God. In faith, I asked God to save me believing that Jesus alone paid the penalty of my sin for me on the cross and that He didn't stay dead, but rose from that grave. The same power that brought Jesus back to life is the same power that saved me and is sanctifying me.

Christians still sin but the attitude towards it is different.

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This topic touches me because I grew up in a church that pushed for numbers to the exclusion of real conversions.


Soulwinner: "Do you want to go to Heaven?"

Sinner: "Of course; doesn't everybody?"

Soulwinner: "Then just ask Jesus into your heart."

Sinner: "Ok. Dear Jesus come into my heart and save me."

Soulwinner: "Now you're saved and going to Heaven."



There was no teaching the law of God to show the need for a change of mind. There was no teaching to show the need of a Saviour.

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[quote="Madeline"]
[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]Madeline, please tell us your salvation testimony.

Was there ever a time when you saw yourself as a wicked, vile sinner? Was there ever a time when you realized that your sinfulness offended a holy and righteous God? Was there ever a time when you realized that you could never do enough or be good enough or smart enough to attain to God's standards?

Did you then change your mind about the way you viewed sin and cried out to God for forgiveness and mercy?


[b]This is not a trick question[/b], neither am I being snippy. I really want to know.
[/quote]

And this is not a trick response. Sorry, I don't feel comfortable sharing my testimony on a public forum. Why not have every member here share their testimony also? :) But interesting you should ask. It is also interesting that just yesterday we got together and had a bible study late in the evening. We discussed how the enemy will make attempts to have us question our salvation. So as you can see, this topic touches me. I can tell you for certain that if I do so happen to slip up and sin, my heart breaks and I feel the God given conviction of the Holy Ghost. Because I do love God, and it breaks my heart to know that I have sinned against Him.

Psalm 23:6

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
This topic touches me because I grew up in a church that pushed for numbers to the exclusion of real conversions.


Soulwinner: "Do you want to go to Heaven?"

Sinner: "Of course; doesn't everybody?"

Soulwinner: "Then just ask Jesus into your heart."

Sinner: "Ok. Dear Jesus come into my heart and save me."

Soulwinner: "Now you're saved and going to Heaven."



There was no teaching the law of God to show the need for a change of mind. There was no teaching to show the need of a Saviour.
[/quote]

Sadly, that describes the vast majority of churches in this area. This is the reason we have a town full of professing Christians but no fruit to show for it.

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[quote="Bakershalfdozen"]
This topic touches me because I grew up in a church that pushed for numbers to the exclusion of real conversions.


Soulwinner: "Do you want to go to Heaven?"

Sinner: "Of course; doesn't everybody?"

Soulwinner: "Then just ask Jesus into your heart."

Sinner: "Ok. Dear Jesus come into my heart and save me."

Soulwinner: "Now you're saved and going to Heaven."



There was no teaching the law of God to show the need for a change of mind. There was no teaching to show the need of a Saviour.
[/quote]

That's easy believeism. Furthermore, there is nothing scriptural about the sinners prayer. Now regarding your previous post.

2 Corinthians 7:10

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Sharing your testimony is not sharing private information or anything. I dare say that you have discussed more private things with us on this public forum. The only reason I can see someone not wanting to share it is if they don't have one. Not saying that you don't, but I can't see any other reason for it...

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[quote="kevinmiller"]
Sharing your testimony is not sharing private information or anything. I dare say that you have discussed more private things with us on this public forum. [b]The only reason I can see someone not wanting to share it is if they don't have one.[/b] Not saying that you don't, but I can't see any other reason for it...
[/quote]

*sigh*...You don't get it do you kevin? Do you know that nature of my Testimony? You obviously don't, neither does anyone else here or the private matters in which it involves. And I don't know your definition of 'private' things, but I can assure you it is better if I kept the private matters of my testimony to myself. But I can guarantee you that I have a testimony regardless if the devil and his flunkies will try and have me doubt my salvation. I only discuss my Testimony with my close friends, they will tell you that I do have a testimony. Hope you understand. :)

Love,
Madeline

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Guest Guest
I know other people who I know are saved that would never, ever share their testimony on a public internet forum either. It doesn't mean they aren't saved. With some of them it means they've been burnt. Not everywhere on the internet is a nice place to be. Some people are mean and nasty and cruel.

Katy-Anne

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[quote]
I can tell you for certain that if I do so happen to slip up and sin, my heart breaks and I feel the God given conviction of the Holy Ghost. Because I do love God, and it breaks my heart to know that I have sinned against Him.
[/quote]

I would hazard a guess that she is a true believer, if only for the attitude she has towards sin.

Which, if I understand it right, is what bakers seems to desire on her part.

[quote]
I was born spiritually when I saw myself for the wicked, vile sinner that I am. I knew God's law and knew that it condemned me. How could anyone ever go through life having never sinned? I was condemned to go to hell. But I cried out for mercy, having changed my mind (repentance) [u]about the way I viewed sin. I could see that it is horribly offensive to a holy God[/u].
[/quote]

Sounds like she has a full understanding of her sin as it pertains to the Lord.

God bless,

Calvary

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