Lost son

[Mountainview]

Hi John

I would suggest the book "Shepherding a Child's Heart." While much of it deals with young kids, it has a section in which your son would fall. The book's author is Tedd Tripp and the principles are biblical and work well. The major principle is that we should not be dealing with outward behaviour but rather with issues of the heart. When we deal will these issues we get to share the word and the gospel in a meaningful way.

[Anon]

Don't know if this helps, but I'm sure that my dad probably thought most of the time that I wasn't going to make it! He and I generally clashed and his punishments always made me very angry. I got along with my dear sweet mom but not my dad. I never did anything sneaky or bad outside the home but I was rebellious to my dad in our home. However I turned out just fine haha. Some people may disagree.... :Bleh

My sister was always very good to my parents face but she was the one who behind closed doors was into worse things than I ever was.

She turned out good too. :lol

So don't worry...keep on keeping on and when its time to hit college, your son may greatly surprise you.

[Psalms18_28]

Sadly, the only thing that bothers our oldest son when he gets in trouble is the fact he got caught. He never shows any remorse at all for what he has done wrong, only for the fact he got in trouble for doing what he wanted to do.
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To be honest, I think that's normal behavior for a boy. I know alot young boys who act that way and I am not referring to my brothers. I am not saying to stop disciplining him or anything. Like all boys, He definitely need some guidence. I am just saying not to worry about how he is suppose to act. And as far as his brother, I think all parent would agree that children come with different personality. His brother is the one with a very unique personality, in my opinion. Great job!!

[John81]

Well, it's been six months since I first posted this thread and if anything, he's doing worse. :sad

About two weeks ago my oldest son did something I didn't even think he would do, he entered my room (my study is off limits unless I'm with my children or they have specific permission to enter) and found where I keep the answer key to the little summer refresher math he's doing is at...and then he copied from it to correct his errors.

To me, this was a very major violation and a step across a very clear line. He received a thorough "correction" yet he continued to lie and claim he hadn't been in my room (the evidence was 100%, without a doubt that he was, but I won't waste space with details). Afterwards I had a talk with him (once again, with no noticable results). I grounded him and took away some of his stuff from his room (like his radio/CD player).

Today, he committed the same offense! I went outside to eliminate some weeds while we had some overcast and he entered my room, found the answer key and cheated on his math work.

(Not that it should matter, but his math work is just a few problems and it's all review of stuff he already knows how to do. We give him this little bit during the summer as a refresher because if he goes without doing math for three months he has trouble picking back up again)

Since May we have been attending a very good church. My whole family loves the church, the pastor and how the messages are presented. Interestingly, in one of the first sermons we heard there, the pastors sermon was virtually a repeat of a conversation I had with my oldest son a few days earlier! My son noticed the pastor said the same thing I had told him and commented upon that.

In any event, I'm still wondering if there is something I'm missing.

I posted much about the history of this in the first post of the thread, and maybe a bit more in a few other posts in this thread.

I pray for him, I make sure he reads and studies the Bible and biblical books. I speak of God and living our lives for Christ and doing right to all my family.

This seems to be a heart problem with him and as of yet I've been unable to reach his heart. He knows right from wrong, he knows our rules and God's rules, and he knows the consequences of breaking them...at least he knows it in his head. His heart seems to be another matter.

And I have no idea why he continues to do wrong when he should know he's going to get caught and he knows the consequences.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any further thoughts.

[Psalms18_28]

He does sound like a typical teenager, so I don't think there is anything wrong with him but I know that it still no excuse. but I think this stage will pass hopefully.

I am wondering if he is cheating because he is having trouble understanding or learning? Children will cheat when the expectation is too much for them and they are having a difficult time . I know I did because I was deaf and couldn't understand the teacher. I had to work harder to learn and spelling test was definitely hard because I couldn't hear the sound to make it easier for me to remember it in my head. So I began cheating because it was too overwhelming for me. the teachers found out and decided to let my speech therapy help with me with my spellings.

[John81]

This isn't a stage because he's been like this for about the past eleven years; so I guess that means it's not a teenage thing either.

And it's not just about cheating, it's the entering my room without permission and all the other things he does like that: such as sneaking into our (wife and I) bedroom and stealing my wifes books, stealing stuff from his younger brother, sneaking into the kitchen and stealing my wife's hard candy, stealing cough drops and aspirin from the bathroom, sneaking out of bed, reading a book when he's supposed to be doing something else, saying he's raked the yard when he hasn't, lying about just about everything even when caught red handed, etc.

And no, the math work is nothing he doesn't understand or finds hard. It's simple review work he's currently doing. He decided to cheat because he didn't feel like working the problems out.

The fact this is a long-term pattern with him that's not getting any better (if anything, it's getting worse) is what concerns me so much.

[Psalms18_28]

does he do this without thinking or out of rebellion? I have a cousin who does all this without thinking. But later felt bad what he did.

I will be praying for you and your son. I hope you two will be able to work it out together.

[John81]

He knows the rules and he says he doesn't bother to consider them once he's decided it's something he wants to do.

Part of the problem is that he doesn't feel bad about doing wrong. He doesn't like it that he gets caught and he doesn't like that he must pay the consequences for doing what he wanted to do, but he shows nor expresses remorse over doing wrong, disobeying God, or his parents.

This child, for some reason, is just so totally different than our other children in this regard.

I appreciate your prayers. I consider prayer to be the beginning block for dealing with him and our situation. I pray the Lord will transform his heart and mind and help me to help him through this.

[pneu-engine]

Just curious, John. What would he say if you told him that you have decided that the "board of Education" needs to have a meeting with his "Seat of Understanding"????? :Green

[kevinmiller]

Do you know if he's saved by chance? And do you know if he is insecure, or if he has been hurt in the past by someone or something?

One thing you could try that seems to be successful at times is a verbal blessing. Whenever he disobeys you or dishonors you, you could say to him, "may the Lord bless you with obedience" or "may the Lord bless you with _________."

I recommend reading The Power of the Spoken Blessing. It's an excellent book and contains a whole chapter on blessing your children. The Power of Crying Out is also a good resource for crying out daily to God for your children. You can find both books on Amazon.com.

Hopefully I'm not overstepping my boundaries by making a third recommendation...lol

But if there is a Basic Seminar in your area, I highly recommend attending one with your son. It's got a lot of rich stuff and it's excellent for getting to the root causes of spiritual problems.

[John81]

My son is familiar with the board of education but it doesn't seem to have the desired effect (it worked well with me and my other children). For whatever reason, he keeps thinking maybe he won't get caught.

Other than being raised mostly by his rarely using discipline Mom (she's somewhat better now) for about the first three years, I've been right here most of the time dealing with discipline issues according to Scripture.

I've read some books on prayer, some specifically for fathers, some specifically on praying for children or the family. I've read several Christian books on families, children, fatherhood, and that sort.

Right now I'm working through the book Boyhood and Beyond with him. Some of this seems to be making an impact, but only time will tell if it's temporary or it goes deeper than that.

[John81]

Sorry Kevin, I forgot to answer the most important question you asked!

No, I don't believe he's saved. This saddens me. This son has been reading the Bible since he could read. He also has Bible study lessons in his homeschooling. As well, I've made sure he has plenty of good Christian literature to read.

I had thought early on that he would likely come to Christ early but it seems most of it goes into his head, but not his heart.

Of course, I'm still praying about this and keeping the Gospel before him and we are now in a good church where he is hearing the Word of God preached each week.

[pneu-engine]

Here's an idea that may solve the "math-key theft" problem. Don't use a standard curriculum but instead try this:::::::

#1. Write your own lessons for him. Math lessons are not at all about getting the right answers to calculations, but rather learning the techniques and procedures for problem solving. This is why Calculus is taught to prospective elementary school teachers. They will probably never use it, but the course teaches them how to think.

#2. Do the math lessons with him. This has the potential to be a wonderful bonding experience with your son.

#3. Don't have an answer key. You won't need it. As you work out th eporoblems with your son, you'll both be developing the solutions "on-the-go".

The result of this method is that a tremendous satisfaction will be realized in both yours and you son's hearts.

Praying for you. :pray

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Praying for your son.........
Christ is the only one that can make a difference in your son's life. Jesus transformed our lives there is nothing too hard for him.

[tired]

I will pray for you. My 8 yr old is like that but has fits of rage. He knows some of the bible, the gospel and bible stories. He tells me he will get saved later. It is very disheartning. The devil always tries to use people close to us to attack us. I will pray.