Are Catholics saved Christians?

[IM4given]

Mike, I found an EXCELLENT online tract that might help you...

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

If I had some money I would order a thousand of these!

[justalex]

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I would suggest that one could correctly replace the word "law" with "sacraments" in the above verse. The only difference between the two is that the law is from God and sacraments are an invention of men. The former was added to grace by some Christian Jews who wanted to exercise a control over God's flock by imposing the bondage of the law. The latter was added to grace by fellow Gentiles for the very same reason: Control. Both are not compatiable with grace. You can't be in bondage and free at the same time. Sadly Christians often take on this or another yoke of bondage and lose by it the joy found in Christ. God would have fellowship and they offer acts of appeasement. God would walk with them as a friend and instead they leave sacrifices for Him on an altar of their own invention. Paul wrote Galations to combat this great sin. He reconized it wasn't ever grace plus works. Those can't coexist. It was grace or works.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The above verses should terrify us. Paul begins Galations by calling a gospel plus works a "perverted gospel". Perverted meaning: turned around. What once was by grace was now by works. What was given was now earned. Paul then calls the bearer of this perverted gospel to be accursed. He wishes them to be doomed to destruction. Why? because a gospel that adds works to grace is a gospel of works and no longer of grace. Remember these Jews hadn't removed anything from the gospel. They had merely added works of the law. If you spoke to them of the grace in Christ Jesus they would have agreed with every word you said. They would have aknowledged Christ's work on the cross and the forgiveness of sin. Yet their gospel was perverted. Unable to do more than lead someone from one form of bondage to another.

Paul loved the lost and because of that wanted the bearer of this perverted gospel accursed. What would he have thought of the Catholic's sacramentalism or the Luthern's or the Anglican's? Would a gospel that required baptismal regeneration be any less perverted than one that required circumcision? I fear they are both worthless.

[mike08]

I don

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Someone asked for scripture support for the statements that we make here on this board.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Catholic.html

[manofconviction]

I know some who claim to be saved, can't judge that. I think there are some who feel they can't change because of "family" promises. Interestingly a Catholic friend and his wife visited last week, she accepted Christ. They visited again last night, we had a missionary called to Ireland, he hit the Catholic practices pretty hard. Pray that they see the need to attend where their faith (hers particularly) can be nurtured.

[justalex]

I don

[mike08]

So you see my point. He is referring to some other early heresy. Works and Jewish customs are different.

[Jerry]

Works is ANYTHING added to God's grace - adding ANY of your works (of whatever sort) to what Jesus has done for our salvation. That would include: baptism, church membership, keeping laws of any kind (including the Law of Moses), being a "good" person, circumcision, giving money to a church, sacraments, observing rituals or days, having to say so many kinds of prayers, penance, etc. - anything else you can think of. If it is not ALL what Jesus has done, that is a gospel of works.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

[Guest *Paul*]

I have yet to meet any Catholic that will claim He was born again through Faith In Jesus Christ alone, as revealed in scripture alone, by God's grace alone.
No, they were born again when they were baptised as infants (apparantly) and even then as born again people this is not enough.
For me this is simple, aside from all the scripture they may know and all the knowledge of church history they have and beliefs they have in common with Polycarp et al. How do they claim they were reconciled to God? Was it the way that scripture presents as mans only hope? No! It was through sacraments.
This being the case I cannot accept any person with this testimony as a brother or sister in Christ, I feel I would be denying the God's plan of salvation in doing so and encouraging a delusion.

[manofconviction]

There has been a great deal of patience (from God) practiced here. Praise God for that. Jerry,you did a great job explaining your points. God Bless

[Madeline]

"Works is ANYTHING added to God's grace - adding ANY of your works (of whatever sort) to what Jesus has done for our salvation. That would include: baptism, church membership, keeping laws of any kind (including the Law of Moses), being a "good" person....."

Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

This means that they have renounced grace through faith as the only way of salvation. Believing that keeping the commandments will merit us heaven is unbiblical. In such as case, one depended on legal works rather than on God's Grace as the means of salvation. This means that they'll be standing before the Great White Throne! Simply put, you can't be justified by the law. But rather it is the "Grace" of God which leads to our obedience.

Titus 2:11-14 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

Love,
Madeline

[mike08]

Dear Madeline,
Remember Paul uses langue that is not always strait forward or easily understood. Jesus teaches us that we must obey the commandments if we want to enter into the kingdom. I hope these scripture verses are helpful in your understanding. God bless.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

2 Peter 3:14-16
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

[Jerry]

Remember Paul uses langue that is not always strait forward or easily understood. Jesus teaches us that we must obey the commandments if we want to enter into the kingdom. I hope these scripture verses are helpful in your understanding. God bless.

Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles - which we are. When you are determined to set one part of Scripture against another, you are going to get yourself into trouble.

Jesus did not teach to keep the commandments to enter heaven - what He did do was show someone who WAS trusting in the law that he could never keep it. Romans and Galatians are pretty clear that no one is justified by the law and no one has ever kept it - we have all sinned; therefore we could never be saved by keeping the law, but only by trusting in the Saviour alone.

[Madeline]

Dear Madeline,
Remember Paul uses langue that is not always strait forward or easily understood. Jesus teaches us that we must obey the commandments if we want to enter into the kingdom. I hope these scripture verses are helpful in your understanding. God bless.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

2 Peter 3:14-16
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Sorry, I completely missed your post. But let's take a look at Matthew 19:17 again:

Matthew 19:17 - And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Jesus exposes the young man hypocrisy by showing him that he has not kept all the commandments as he had claimed (v.20). That verse is telling us that NONE of us have kept the commandments.

Matthew 22:37-40 "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. "

The self-righteous Pharisees who thought they were holier than others tried to tempt Jesus by asking him which is the greatest commandment in the law (over 600). Christ had summarized it by showing (1) Responsibility to God and (2) responsibility to man. As the greatest commandment, it was of supreme priority and importance, something the rich young ruler failed to do. The same goes for all mankind, which is why Jesus is the only way to enter into life. It's Christ's righteousness imputed to us - not self-righteousness!

Love,
Madeline