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Is Repentance Necessary For Salvation?


LindaR

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madelin says


The true gospel is that one receives forgiveness of all sin, eternal life, and a certain future in heaven the moment we, in repentance, trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Cornelius and his friends had repented "unto life" (11:18), With this understanding we can see how saving faith is repentant faith. The word "repent" does not literally mean to turn around, it literally means "to change one's mind." Repentant faith is a change of mind toward God and sin where the Spirit of God grants one understanding of the wickedness of their sin and where one consequently trusts fully in Christ alone to save them from it. When one gets saved, they must not only repent of sin, but they must also repent or change theirs mind about their trust in works, baptism, false gods, or whatever else they have been trusting in for salvation.


This is an excellent example of works salvation, it is not of God and it is not the gospel.
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From A.W.Tozer: The Root of Righteousness, Chapter 11: No Regeneration Without Reformation, pg. 45


"I think there is little doubt that the teaching of salvation without repentance has lowered the moral standards of the Church and produced a multitude of deceived religious professors who erroneously believe themselves to be saved when in fact they are still in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity."


To me, that means that there is NO salvation without repentance. A.W.Tozer is saying that regeneration IS salvation and repentance must precede regeneration and repentance produces fruit and a desire to serve God.
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madelin says



This is an excellent example of works salvation, it is not of God and it is not the gospel.



Here we can see that repentance is not a work, because it is contrasted with doing works. Repentance, however, as one gets saved when one repents, will always produce works because Christ will sanctify (set apart) the one He has justified (declared righteous) (cf. 2 Cor. 5:17). The Bible is very clear that saving faith is absolutely apart from works; consider Romans 4:5, which I quoted above, which contrasts working for salvation with believing God for it. Saving faith is simply trusting in God
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Repentance is certainly a change of mind resulting in a change of conduct. This is a definition based on word usage as used in the Bible. There is nowhere in Scripture where someone repented without a corresponding change in conduct.

The Lord Would Not Repent

The definition of repentance is the same whether referring to man or God. God changes His mind and therefore His conduct based on man's changing conduct - ie. treats the righteous one way and the wicked another way, and if a righteous man becomes wicked or a wicked man turns from his sin, then the Lord's conduct toward them changes correspondingly.

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From A.W.Tozer: The Root of Righteousness, Chapter 11: No Regeneration Without Reformation, pg. 45



To me, that means that there is NO salvation without repentance. A.W.Tozer is saying that regeneration IS salvation and repentance must precede regeneration and repentance produces fruit and a desire to serve God.


Actually, there is no repentance without salvation.

Repentance which is the fruit of salvation is of a Godly sort !

2 cor 7

11For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

This kind of repentance springs from a new heart given in newbirth. A natural person born of the flesh cannot do anything Godly, that is heresy, in fact the bible says that there is no fear of God in their eyes !

rom 3 18There is no fear of God before their eyes.
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There is no doubt the Scripture speaks of the elect. What is generally up for debate among many is just what "elect" means as it's used in Scripture!


Here is a good scriptural example !

rom 9

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Election is based soley on the sovereign perogative of God, not taking in for consideration the actions of those being elected !

Of course you are probably going to pervert and twist scripture and say God is not talking about individuals but He is, jacob and easu were individuals first and foremost. Just like adam was, abraham was..
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That verse is talking about individuals - however it is not talking about salvation. It is talking about whom the Lord chose to have the line of Christ come through.

Repentance comes before regeneration - it (ie. repentance in regards to salvation) is man's response to the Gospel invitation and the conviction/enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.

We do not believe in Calvinism here and you would be better taking it elsewhere. It is not profitable for anyone of us to endlessly debate THAT system of doctrines - I have never seen one person switch sides because of some debate.

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Here is a good scriptural example !

rom 9

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Election is based soley on the sovereign perogative of God, not taking in for consideration the actions of those being elected !

Of course you are probably going to pervert and twist scripture and say God is not talking about individuals but He is, jacob and easu were individuals first and foremost. Just like adam was, abraham was..



You are assuming that the writer in Romans is still dealing with eternal life but that isn't what he is dealing with by chapter 9. He's dealing with inheritance. What are you going to do when you get to heaven and find that both Esau and Jacob in fact died saved?

Genesis 33:4-9
4 And Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him: and they wept.
5 ¶ And he lifted up his eyes, and saw the women and the children; and said, Who are those with thee? And he said, The children which God hath graciously given thy servant.
6 Then the handmaidens came near, they and their children, and they bowed themselves.
7 And Leah also with her children came near, and bowed themselves: and after came Joseph near and Rachel, and they bowed themselves.
8 And he said, What meanest thou by all this drove which I met? And he said, These are to find grace in the sight of my lord.
9 And Esau said, I have enough, my brother; keep that thou hast unto thyself.

Seems Esau got right over this whole matter. But he could not get back the inheritance and birthright. The issue was despising the birthright. Read also in Hebrews 12. Reference that to Hebrews 10:29

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

These things are dealing with people who are already saved. How could they be sanctified if they had not repented and believed on the Lord thereby receiving life eternal and also had been baptized through water for a separation from the world to a better calling? If they later reject the new covenant, they are nigh unto cursings:

Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

They will not lose their eternal life though but better not be planning on getting a reward or inheritance on that great day.

2 Timothy 2:10-13
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect
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Esau, a saved man? Seems beyond doubtful:

Hebrews 12:14-17 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (15) Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; (16) Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. (17) For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

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samer says



Why do you ignore all the scripture I just showed you ?

Conviction of sin comes from a new heart given in regeneration ! Jesus pronounces them blessed who have it !

Matt 5

4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Again you are ignoring scripture, this mourning comes from a Sovereign act of God : zech 12

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Now deal with scripture and not fables and tradition ! BTW This is describing salvation...


The gospel message is what convicts, and it convicts all who hear. But not all get saved:

Acts 26
26 For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.
27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.
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The Gospel is by definition good news, so its primary purpose isn't conviction.
I suppose the death of Christ convicts people, as our sins have nailed him to the cross, but first we must understand our sins, which comes by the law. Conviction is the law's job.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic. :tum

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The Gospel is by definition good news, so its primary purpose isn't conviction.
I suppose the death of Christ convicts people, as our sins have nailed him to the cross, but first we must understand our sins, which comes by the law. Conviction is the law's job.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic. :tum


The gospel is good news because it describes why God saved you ! Because of the depravity of our hearts. Sometimes its even more specific as to a particular sin, like on the day of pentecost, it appeared that the sin of being guilty of the crucifixion of christ was highlighted as in acts 2

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Even though God brought about convictiont of sin, there was still the element of good news in that they had been foregiven of their sins ! This was in direct answer to Christ mediation on their behalf when he was on the cross:

lk 23

34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.


Your concept of good news is humanistic and not based on scripture !

The Gospel of christ is this:

# 1 Who Christ is = His Deity Triunity ?

# 2 What He has accomplished meaning His work ?

# 3 How and when did he accomplish it

# 4 For whom He accomplished it for ?

# 5 Why did He accomplish it, what reason and purpose ?

If one can answer these questions biblically , they have a basic foundation of the gospel report.

I believe the book of romans explains each of the above, in fact, the book of romans and the truthes therein are the Gospel of God !
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